1. #1
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    Question Crimson Vs. Pierce????? Open Discussion

    I am woundering which is a better truck crimson or pierce. We went with a Crimson e series custom cab with all stainless steal body. See thats standerd on crimson but with pierce you have to pay extra if you want stainless. We were goin to go with a top mount pierce 4 door contender series, but we went with the crimson top mount custom. Think this was a good choice??????? i do..... Whats everybody else think.

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    We just finished spec'ing a truck and felt the Crimson was built better than the Pierce for some of the same reasons you stated. For example, our spec said stainless plumbing but yet Pierce went and bid galvanized plumbing because it was cheaper. Of course we called them and they said, "Sure we can do that but it's going to cost more." We said, "Nevermind, don't bother. Goodbye." Besides, service is important too and our sales rep and his company is about an hour away and they both have always been exceptional to work with.
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    Default Whats everybody else think.

    As long as you're happy who cares what everybody else thinks??

    What's this have to do with the FIRE grants?

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    I must say, after having worked on ALFs through the '60s and '70s, and then finishing my career on Pierces, I'm mighty impressed with what Crimson appears to be. I haven't had the luxury of actually lifting the hood, so to speak, on a Crimson and verify that it is as good as it looks, but I'm mightily impressed. The shock-isolating mounting of the body, the innovative stuff they do with the fender wells, the apparent (again I haven't gotten to inspect one myself) construction and QC are very impressive looking. More so than Pierce, IMO.

    Then again, one must remember that Spartan made a tough-minded business decision that Pierce was taking over the market (or at least Spartan was losing enough of the market that they had to do something, and, as the big-boy on the block, Pierce was definitely in Spartan's sights), and if Spartan wanted to stay in fire trucks, they had to do something. And boy! - Do something they did. They bought out two struggling, old-time manufacturers, hired the best people they could find and afford, and, most-importantly, are working their butts off to produce an apparatus that is as innovative and high-quality as Pierce claims to be, and at a slightly cheaper price. VERY good business thinking.

    I truly hope this works for them, but I also hope that they don't forget what won them their customers 10 years from now, when they're struggling to compete in price and volume, as Pierce is now. (Every company in every industry seems to hit a point where they're close to a dominating point, but they have their own internal problems of needing to be less-responsive to customers, at least for a short period of time, while they internally re-organize/grow/re-capitalize. - It seems like Pierce is about there. They're the big guy, but to keep getting bigger, they have to streamline to keep competitive in the short term... Hopefully, Crimson won't suffer from this too soon.)

    As far as the details of the Crimson, I think it is in interesting dicotomy that they put such a high-quality, custom, innovative body on what is considered to be the lower-end of cheap custom cabs/chassis... Not that there's anything wrong with Spartan chassis, it's just the perception that they're cheaper, and hence lower quality...

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    So as not to get into to many details but, I would rather push a Pierce than operate a Crimson. We currently have ongoing litigation with them on the purchase of multiple apparatus that have not wrked properly from day 1. Yes they look great but, operationaly they inhale rapidly! If you want a stainless
    apparatus that will perform without the headaches and hassles. Get a Sutphen! My two cents!

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    We just ordered a Crimson Engine. Our last two were Pierce. IMHO, When Pierce got bigger, the quality suffered. I do not know much about Crimson, but I am hoping for the best.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Thumbs down When will or will the funds be released...

    When will or will the DHS AFG funds be released. Again, this is President Bush's DHS or should it be called "Disaster of Homeland Security" acting like most of the President's policy's. We are now very close to FY 2007 and yet FY 2006 AFG funds have not been released. Perhaps DHS has spent the funds and will not be awarding anyone this year or next. Perhaps this delay is just a politically way of saying.... sorry boy's the program is a bust, like this President has been.

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    I hate it when venom is spewed, without any facts to support it, on a program that has done nothing but good things for the Fire Service. Lets leave the uninformed BS out of the posts Oxbow, and stick to the meat of
    the program.

    The NOFA has to be signed, and with CONGRESS on recess right now, it
    will wait a little longer. Until then, they won't announce. (NOFA - Notice
    Of Funds Availability) Notice, it is a hold up in CONGRESS, not with the
    White House.

    Some have reported that when they log on, they have been asked to update their 1199A, and that is normally considered a good sign that they are going to get a grant, but most all of those have been for SAFER grants so far. (It looks like we are geting one)

    But please, let's leave the political crap out of it?

    There is a great thread on this, found at

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=83492

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxbow13671
    When will or will the DHS AFG funds be released.
    And how does this relate to the thread?

    Back on topic, Crimson seems to have stepped up to the plate recently on thier rigs. I come from an area where Pierces outnumber every other manufacturer 2:1, and there's no doubt that they build a quality rig, but they sometimes build a rig with issues too. This can happen with any manufacturer, as we all know.

    We run 28 Pierces at work (Quantums, Dashs and Lances) that were all built since 1997, and nearly all of them have proven to be very reliable. We're handling about 35,000 calls/year, so they do see some abuse.

    At my much more rural VFD, we're currently shopping manufacturers to replace our 1991 Grumman Firecat. There's no doubt that Crimson is on the short list of possibilities. We've done a lot of traveling and looking at rigs, and I can see that Crimson, while not producing a HUGE number of vehicles annually, is paying attention to the customer's needs.

    Personally, I don't know that you'd go wrong either way...

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    Actually, Oxbow is more on the right topic. Not saying I agree with the rant, I don't, but at least Ox, LVFD, and JP are talking about the right things. Y'all are in the GRANTS forum. the APPARATUS forum is back a page and down a few.

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    I can't say for sure, but I'm not sure you can compare a Crimson stainless body to what some other builders are doing with stainless, in terms of construction material, etc. This may explain some pricing differences.

    Disclaimer: This is hearsay, as I haven't looked at a Crimson stainless body well enough to make it a statement of my opinion.

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    Fire trucks:

    (insert manufacurer here) vs. (insert manufacurer here)
    Answers-
    we have one, best rig we have ever had
    we have one, worst rig we have ever had
    heard of someone with one, best rig they have
    heard of someone with one, worst rig they hav ever had

    Have a good spec, insert a performance clause, have penalties for failure to follow, do a rigid acceptance inspection, and make sure there is a service center for warrentee work close enough that you are comfortable. Make your OWN choice.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxbow13671
    When will or will the DHS AFG funds be released.

    You know, with no offense intended, perhaps some of your attitude is
    coming through in your grant application?

    Looking back at the posts you have made, out of 9, 7 have been
    in reference to the FEMA grant application, 4 have been very negative.

    I understand the issues with running a department with no money - my
    department has less than half that yours has, (A good budget year
    is $6,500 for everything) and we cover about 200 square miles.

    But the grant has been manna from heaven. We got SCBA's in 2001,
    and have been unsuccessful ever since for AFG grant. It does appear that
    we may be getting a SAFER grant award this year.

    How did YOUR safer grant go? If as you say the grant is
    only for people who have money, heavy political, etc, how did that
    happen? How has your program worked for you? Has it helped in
    recruiting? What did you all do for it? We are honestly looking for
    ideas!

    Even though we have not gotten an AFG grant since the very first year,
    we still keep putting in, fine tuning our application, and hoping. Nothing is
    going to get me negative about the process, its all good.

    BTW, I hope you find a tanker - we have been very greatful of
    departments in PA and NJ that have donated equipment to our
    department to help us keep running. Our biggest issue like you I
    am sure is keeping the stuff running, I have two vehicles down
    right now for brake issues.

    I am not going to get political about the process either. FEMA has
    worked very hard to keep the politics out of the grant process, and
    the level of funding is the same game that the politicians play with
    the entire US budget, and have for years. Democrat, Republican, its
    all the same.

    FEMA again has done a great job, and have been always helpful during
    the process.

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    I agree with jpsmith. As long as it is what you want and it works.

    My personal opinion is obviously based on my department. Plus I do not know of any Crimson apps in our area.

    Our department built our Custom Peirce Dash in 1989. We also got it at an excellent price. We have been repeatedly told by the techs doing the annual service that it is the best vehicle they have ever seen. It has been nothing but reliable and solid. We could not even think about replacing it because it is such a good vehicle. Granted we did by it new and we have taken excellent care of it. But again it has never failed us (except when the bay doors were closed on its rear rotators.. OOOPPSS!).

    As for Pierce. I agree they problable have become to big for their bottoms. With our 05 grant we were looking for a tanker. Pierce basically came to us with junk and an extremely high price. We gave them the specs that we were looking at and they would not even talk with us anymore. Oh well, there loss. We ended up going with Bluerass Tankers (I do not mind mentioning them because they are excellent). It seems to me that Pierce is relying on strictly name recognition anymore. They can't seem to get over the fact that name recognition does not hold a lot of strength anymore with most departments tight budgets.

    Anyway, that is my opinion. I really hope your app is what you want and congrats.

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    Thumbs down

    I can only speak of what I have encountered with Pierce while trying to spec our grant truck. They basically changed everything on the spec to a "assembly line" type of commercial pumper for starters. They also removed some items (like additional discharges)that others will install. Basically it wasn't even the same truck! The impression I got was that if it isn't one of their "standard designs" they aren't interested in building it. I guess that also explains why their estimate is $50K more than the ones who would like to build "our" truck.
    Just the impression I have gotten so far.

    "Just remember. No matter where you go. There you are!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187
    We've done a lot of traveling and looking at rigs, and I can see that Crimson, while not producing a HUGE number of vehicles annually, is paying attention to the customer's needs.
    **Cough** PM me before you make your decision.

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    Default new crimson fire 100' platform

    we as in sidney nebraska vol. fire&rescue your getting a new 100' platform from crimson fire and we have a pierce in are house we had a dollar amount and pierce would not touch it. the crimson we spec has all you can get on a platform and a sink. and for maint.work less then 100 miles and thats a big plus. if you have ?s about crimson fire please email me at firecaptleal@yahoo.com

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    Thumbs up Pierce cookie cutter truck

    We have been doing spec's on a truck - here were our results:

    Custom Fire - great truck out of our price range.

    Seagrave - great truck close to our spec.

    Rosenquist - another great truck very close to buying.

    Toyne - another great truck made us one heck of deal.


    Pierce - you want what done? we can't do that and be competetive - no bid.

    We went with Toyne in Breda Iowa great truck - good price - great delivery time.

    It pays to look around.

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    can somebody help me I am very new to this and I need to know what the 1199 is and what are the ten questions?????

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