1. #1
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    Default Dalmation 90 please come back

    Dal, I always found your postings very informative and pretty much
    right on the mark,Out of all the members here Yourself,Capt Gonzo,
    and even George are straight shooters and I respect your comments.
    Dont let the few that lack respect stop you from posting.

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    Dal, I always found your postings very informative and pretty much
    right on the mark,Out of all the members here Yourself,Capt Gonzo,
    and even George are straight shooters and I respect your comments.
    Dont let the few that lack respect stop you from posting.
    HUH? Am I missing something? Whats wrong with Matt?

    EDIT:
    I was pointed to the thread.........but I am still confused.
    Last edited by stm4710; 04-30-2005 at 07:31 AM.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Well folks, it's been real.

    I tried to take a bit of a break last week from here 'cause I was getting a bit short with my answers to some of knuckle heads we get.

    And I'm pretty good and selecting pictures that can't get criticized too much unless people are nit picking.

    3000 odd posts, 5+ years, and soon as I post this I'm putting a random password on my account -- Dal's outta here.

    Stay Safe.

    Matt

    Not sure what happened but I hope Dal changes his mind

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    Oops posted after 4710 posted and before he reposted

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    I read that, I hope dal comes back. He has been one of this sites most objective posters with very insightfull opinions, WWYD's and articles.

    Dal, dont let knuckle head drive you away............I for one enjoyed your postings.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Dal 90's not the only one "taking a vacation from firehouse.com nation"...

    hfd66truck has been conspicously absent, as has team2cap and others.

    I guess it's because there has been a lot of crap posted lately.. a lot of 3/20's (three days on the job but acting like they have 20 years on), recycled threads, teenagers acting like they run the fire department, etc. etc. etc.

    Some people on these forums are just plain rude and attack you because of differing opinion. Others want to rewrite the laws of physics and hydraulics to suit their own arguments.

    I still come here.... after all, someone has to handle the diplomacy...
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 04-30-2005 at 08:08 AM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Default Gonzo!

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    I guess it's because there has been a lot of crap posted lately.. a lot of 3/20's (three days on the job but acting like they have 20 years on), recycled threads, teenagers acting like they run the fire department, etc. etc. etc.

    Gonzo- Couldnt you have just PMed me about this instead of
    telling the whole world? Ok, I will stop, Geez!

    Love, Bou

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    Default Re: Gonzo!

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU



    Gonzo- Couldnt you have just PMed me about this instead of
    telling the whole world? Ok, I will stop, Geez!

    Love, Bou
    after all, someone has to handle the diplomacy...
    I thought that was my job?

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    I thought that was my job?
    Now THAT'S funny!

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    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    Dal 90's not the only one "taking a vacation from firehouse.com nation"...

    hfd66truck has been conspicously absent, as has team2cap and others.

    I guess it's because there has been a lot of crap posted lately.. a lot of 3/20's (three days on the job but acting like they have 20 years on), recycled threads, teenagers acting like they run the fire department, etc. etc. etc.

    Some people on these forums are just plain rude and attack you because of differing opinion. Others want to rewrite the laws of physics and hydraulics to suit their own arguments.

    I still come here.... after all, someone has to handle the diplomacy...
    Well thanks for comeing back captain. Some of us young guys learn from you...
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

  11. #11
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    I, too, have noticed a basic lack of quality control.
    There is very little discussion anymore.
    Oh; there a quite a few arguments, but discussions?
    Hell; if a thread on a weighty subject such as firefighter safety goes more than 3 pages, it's because someone said something that someone else didn't like, the namecalling ensued, the thread got completely off topic and meaningful discussion got flushed with the morning constitutional.
    You can get a hundred responses on a "firefighter sports bike", but try getting a thread started and actually keep it going on a "real" fire service problem and posters ignore it like a geek with a bad case of B O.
    There has been a swing in the past year of a group who waits for their particular "trigger" word(s) and then they pounce like a rabid pack of wolves.
    There has been accusations made that some are too hard on the novice or new members. But the fact is that they come into the thread with an "I fight what you fear" attitude and think that is all that is needed to win the day. But get into a discussion about ventilation, hydraulics, fire behavior or building construction and they bolt to a thread where they are more knowledgeable; usually the one about flashlights, bluelights, penlights, grill lights, alley lights or flood lights; probably because their time on the job is a little "light".
    When the thread about FDNY firefighters was active and you had some in there extolling the virtues of balls out no matter what; all I could think about were guys like Chief Billy Goldfeder, Francis Brannigan, Chief Mark Wessel or Vincent Dunn and how they had made firefighter safety their life's work and how some criticized being safe as "hanging back". It makes you want to puke that there are idiots masquerading as firefighters that are teaching the young ones that you ain't squat if you aren't attacking the fire.
    Guys like Dalmation 90 are needed in these forums. They bring experience, knowledge and humility to a job that can bring you to the brink of insanity on some days and on others, take you to a plateau so high that you swear that your face is going to break from the smile that it gives you.
    Maybe the good ones will come back when the personal attacks are banned from the boards, topics become more "topical" and a resurgence for a thirst for learning returns.
    I will now turn this over to the one post wonders.
    It's funny; but like Dal, I can go to IACOJ and discuss with him and many of those who are serious when they need to be and fun the rest of the time.
    I'm out.
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    I also have noticed the lack of quality on the forums. I knew something was wrong but couldn't put my finger on it. Chief Reason is very correct. The abundance of ignorance on this site is growing larger by the day. When I first started in the fire service my eyes and ears were open and my mouth closed. It is the only way to properly learn and educate one self. There are more pressing issues in the fire service than lights on POV's, how to make a helmet salty without going into a fire and other trivial wacker questions. Learn the basics and THEN worry about everything else. This is a job best learned by hands on experience working with men who have earned their crustiness. Not by reading a book and claiming to know the subject cold. Some of these pups should put up and shut up.
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

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    Originally posted by ChiefReason
    Maybe the good ones will come back when the personal attacks are banned from the boards, topics become more "topical" and a resurgence for a thirst for learning returns.
    I will now turn this over to the one post wonders.
    CR

    One of my fears arising from the recent turn of events is that there won't be enough real experience left on these forums to sustain meaningful dialog. Who will train the next generation of firefighters if we don't?

    I say Lead by Example.
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    One of my fears arising from the recent turn of events is that there won't be enough real experience left on these forums to sustain meaningful dialog. Who will train the next generation of firefighters if we don't?
    I say Lead by Example.
    Some of the members aren't interested in hearing from those with experience. They aren't interested in meaningful dialog. They aren't interested in learning.
    They are only interested in confrontation. They are only interested in showing someone with knowledge and experience a complete and utter lack of respect by their constant, personal attacks. Because they can't discuss an issue on their level, because they lack the knowledge and experience. Sooooo, they resort to attacking the person's politics, religion or whatever else is not germaine to the discussion.
    Though political and religious beliefs are important to our lives, it shouldn't become the main factor when filtering information from that person.
    AND YOU ALL KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
    People aren't getting flamed for what they know. They are getting flamed because of a thread somewhere else where something was said-most likely a politics or religion related thread and because those topics can become emotional and heated very quickly, the stalkers will follow you to every post from there on.
    I don't judge people because of their politics or religion. Nor do I discount their knowledge and experience in matters of firefighting.
    But if you want to be taken seriously for the job that you do and you want the respect that is earned and not given, then you need to improve your interpersonal skills here.
    Members of the IACOJ, as a condition of membership will treat everyone with a level of respect. That's EVERYONE. Not just IACOJ members. Nor will we tolerate unwelcomed and unwarranted personal attacks on any of our members. Anyone attempting to do so will be reported to webteam.
    You can articulate your thoughts without puncuating them with rude and disrespectful remarks. Because, from experience, that's where the threads turn ugly.
    We are missing an incredible opportunity to teach and to learn, but it is being lost on a group of people who have an entirely different agenda.
    It's like having the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other. Both are giving you advice.
    Whose advice would YOU take?
    CR
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    I guess I look at it this way....

    As long as some of us have come to these boards we have seen people come and go. As new people come they ask the same things others have discussed at lengths beyond imagination and they get a terse "USE THE SEARCH NEWBIE!" or similar reply in most occasions. A lot of times this message comes from a member of the "IACOJ" or someone with a few thousand replies. I used to frequent the boards but as some people got more "experience" (total posts) it seemed that they became elitist and sensed an "ownership" of the FH forums due to a perceived "Seniority". For guys who seem to thrive in the fire station mentality that permeates the boards I laugh when they forget that much like our firehouses there are people of many different personalities that we MUST deal with if we choose to stay on the boards (or in the fire houses). Yeah, I have thrown flame at times and mocked people so don't think I am calling myself perfect, far from it. Just because you have xxxxx posts or "membership" in a fun online fraternal group doesn't mean much to some people. We are all just names behind a keyboard (I realize some of us have met but that isn't what I mean) and people have no real way of knowing if we are really "Salty Jakes" or just a well read rookie that listened to a lot of coffee break tales. Let's all be a little less high on ourselves and more tolerant of the others.
    Flame me, praise me or beat me up when we get off the bus.....I don't care...just be safe out there...

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    * spellchecking again...ugh
    Last edited by FiRsqDvr45; 05-01-2005 at 11:07 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Default

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    Some people on these forums are just plain rude and attack you because of differing opinion.
    You've hit the nail on the head. People can not agree to disagree.

    You don't know how close I've been to packing it in here....because of some of the arguments that develop into personal attacks. It's so unprofessional.

    Dal........please reconsider. Take a deep breath and think about the valuable contributions you provide here. Please?
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    I don't blame Dal a bit. I taken a couple of hiatuseseses.

    I'm not slamming the webteam now, because they do a hell of a job keeping the riff-raff to a minimum. But I've noticed the collective IQ of the forums go down the toilet ever since the FH chat got shut down. Again, I'm not blaming the webteam for doing something they had to do, but I think there may have been an unexpected consequence.....

    Matt, please drop me an email if you're still lurking. I'd like to be able to get a hold of you from time to time. That hydraulics spreadsheet you sent out a couple years back is still in use. Stay safe.
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    I would like to ask a question as an "old" rookie (turnign 34 this August).

    I have noticed a lot in the younger generation ( the upper teens to the young-to-mid-20's)that when asked a tough question, some of these folks will: guess, backpedal, stammer, stutter, ummm & uhhhh, or just plain outright lie, rather than say "I don't know."

    I work with two different departments and I see this in both. There are some of these folks that already have Fire 1 & 2. But they cant remember how to perform horizontal ventillation. I have to wonder about these guys who when asked in a nice safe classroom environment, cant answer a question quickly, How on earth will they react when IN a fire?

    Getting closer to topic, I personally feel that God gave us two ears, two eyes, & ONE mouth for a reason. We should listen & observe twice as much as we speak. There are those in my current fire class that seem more interested in getting a laugh regardless of the pertinence of the comments, then get defensive when asked to shut up & listen

    So all you old timers, keep up the good work. I find that I always learn something from somebody, whether I meant to or not. Most of those lessons become a "work smarter, not harder" lesson. Or even a "different perspective" lesson. For instance, I never realized that you could load a minuteman load more than just one way, until this last weekend.

    And to all those who get frustrated with us rookies, dont sweat the small stuff (even when its big stuff !)

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    I, too, hate to see anyone with Dal's experience and wisdom leave the forums, and I wish it weren't so. What I don't quite know is how to talk about my perceptions of the situation without "bashing" anyone. So, as usual, I'll talk about it anyway and let the chips fall where they may...

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    Some people on these forums are just plain rude and attack you because of differing opinion. Others want to rewrite the laws of physics and hydraulics to suit their own arguments.
    This goes on everywhere on the Internet these days (and many places offline as well), and I think it's a symptom of our divided society. There is no real respect in America anymore for the value or richness of differing opinions, no appreciation of the lessons to be learned from debate, and an overwhelming need to win at all costs. Our "leaders" in government play the game this way, we teach kids to play their games this way (ever watch parents at a little league baseball or pee-wee football game?), and it goes on and on. Hopefully, it's a passing stage in our social develiopment, and not a long-term trend.

    To tell you the truth, this kind of thing hardly affects me anymore, because I'm so accustomed to being attacked in this way. I just consider it a cost of posting (or running for office, or pretty much getting into a debate with anyone over anything) anymore. What I find a bit troubling is that I find myself couter-attacking, or pre-emptively attacking, more often over time...and not really caring that much anymore about the person on the other end. That has served me well politically (it positions me as the candidate willing to lock horns and fight with the people who frustrate everyone else), but it's probably only contributing to the problem in a broader sense.

    Originally posted by pvfire424
    I have noticed a lot in the younger generation ( the upper teens to the young-to-mid-20's)that when asked a tough question, some of these folks will: guess, backpedal, stammer, stutter, ummm & uhhhh, or just plain outright lie, rather than say "I don't know."
    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    I guess it's because there has been a lot of crap posted lately.. a lot of 3/20's (three days on the job but acting like they have 20 years on), recycled threads, teenagers acting like they run the fire department, etc. etc. etc.
    This is a problem that permeates the volunteer fire service, and I see it in action every day in my area. Many of the younger crowd I see - not "all" and maybe not even "most" - have developed a sense of entitlement...they feel they are entitled to respect, they are entitled to be officers, they are entitled to run the show...before they even know what the show is all about. I've seen fire companies nearby entirely overrun by these people...their own companies will make them wait years to become officers, so they find a company that is having manpower problems, then flood into the membership so that they can have bugles pinned on their collar they day they turn 18. And these fire companies, instead of admitting to a manpower problem and saying, "we won't appoint unqualified people to officers' positions no matter how desperate we get," say "put 'em in...we don't have anyone else." All this does is make the problem dozens of times worse. For example, a few years ago, one station in the area had two Lieutenants and a Captain all 19 years or younger...think about that...3 of 6 command officers with a total of less than 5 years experience between them!! There were two "waves of these guys over a few years, and today, a few years later, most of these guys are basically "3/20s" as Gonzo put it, and contaminating a whole new generation of juniors, who will be even worse than them. We're our own worst enemies in this way. As far as I can see, this doesn't stop until municipalities, counties or states step up and set some real criteria for training and certification - for officers and everyone else - and quit bowing to the people who say "we're just volunteers...you can't expect us to do all of that." It's crap, and it's sickening that so many people in the fire service in PA take that attitude...many do not, but enough do to effectively keep the state legilature from stepping in and stopping this nonsense once and for all. I somehow ended up on my soapbox. I'll get down now. But, all of this is part of the problem that's pushing people off these forums...and the same thing is happening out there on the street too...experienced people packing it in because they can't take the nonsense anymore. I just don't know what else to do, other than to keep fighting it, no matter who attacks. Keep fighting, Dal.
    Last edited by bobsnyder; 05-03-2005 at 06:13 AM.

  20. #20
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    I could do without the rude comments as well. And I dont know how to fix it. Perhaps if we all get together and police it ourselves? If someone starts crap, call the "old timmers patrol" and we'll put em in their place

    However, when it comes to people posting old subjects, I just role with it. I know there is a search botton, but is it really that much of a problem if someone doesnt use it? I dont know how many times Ive clicked on a thread only to find "old news". So I just hit the back button and go to the next. No big deal.

    I dont know if this is an issue that will ever go away. Not with new people joining everyday. The "old timmers" need to understand that. The way I look at it, its no difference then dealing with a probie on the job. They look to us for advice and guidence, and I feel we should help if we can. I know I probably bugged the crap out of the oldtimmers when I started, as did the rest of you
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    I hadn't heard Dal was taking a breather, but probably a well-deserved one. I certainly can't condone it because of some jack***** here. I missed whatever it was that y'all are talking about that caused him to take a break.

    Anyway, like most of the rest of you, as more and more folks get access to the internet, we're being inundated with folks that make one fire and all of a sudden are veterans of the fire service. I've been in 12 years, put more time into learning how to fight fire in a safer manner than I do into learning what puts food on my table, and I'll be the first to tell anyone that I don't know everything I need to know. Too often someone gets a patch on their shoulder and they are experts. I don't know how many guys I've seen that are supposed to be certified professional firefighters, and they can't start the PPV fan because they don't know where the throttle or the On switch are.

    It's the attitude that has to CHANGE, and unfortunately too many act like it's the C word you wouldn't say in church. Too many excuses about how hard it is to change, and how much it's going to cost, or that will never happen here.

    I sure haven't agreed with everything anyone has ever said on these forums, but there was never any reason to get ignorant with anyone about it. We're all here to learn how things are somewhere else and figure out for ourselves if said item would enhance our abilities to go home at the end of the job or not. Too much of society is bent on winning the ******ing contest instead of making things safer.

    Like someone else said, we've spent 20 pages on making up posts saying dumb stuff or adding smileys, but God forbid a forum about making operations safer ever gets past 2 pages unless someone insults someone else's momma. Or waves an apparatus flag, or pulls another career vs vollie argument. Nothing changes unless someone gets hurt or killed, and then it's too late and too obvious.

  22. #22
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    Posted by FiRsqDvr45:
    I guess I look at it this way....

    As long as some of us have come to these boards we have seen people come and go. As new people come they ask the same things others have discussed at lengths beyond imagination and they get a terse "USE THE SEARCH NEWBIE!" or similar reply in most occasions.
    The search engines offered by Firehouse.com is a great feature. Anyone looking for information has it at there fingertips and it's great if you are short of time. Suggesting that people use it is good advice; not "terse".
    A lot of times this message comes from a member of the "IACOJ" or someone with a few thousand replies.
    Nice of you to notice the "IACOJ" tag on the signatures, but to single out that group is unfair and unfounded. Again; some are merely trying to help people who aren't familiar with the features of this website.
    I used to frequent the boards but as some people got more "experience" (total posts) it seemed that they became elitist and sensed an "ownership" of the FH forums due to a perceived "Seniority".
    Post total never got me to the head of the line, it didn't lower my taxes and didn't get me a date with the Prom Queen. Post count don't mean squat. You can jack your post count by simply logging on and putting up a smiley face.
    I don't think Dave Iannone or Chris Hebert founded this website to cause turmoil and derision in the firefighting community. I think they did it for two reasons: 1) for those who want to learn and 2) for those who want to share their knowledge and experience. If people come here to start arguments and pick fights, then they come here for the wrong reasons. There can be a diversity of opinion that can be discussed respectfully. It doesn't have to be done using street rules. It can be done in a framework that shows some respect even when opinions differ.
    For guys who seem to thrive in the fire station mentality that permeates the boards I laugh when they forget that much like our firehouses there are people of many different personalities that we MUST deal with if we choose to stay on the boards (or in the fire houses).
    Funny you should say that, because the founders believe this to be a "virtual firehouse".
    Yeah, I have thrown flame at times and mocked people so don't think I am calling myself perfect, far from it. Just because you have xxxxx posts or "membership" in a fun online fraternal group doesn't mean much to some people.
    Is that some kind of a "badge of honor" for you? Flaming other firefighters isn't my idea of "fun" and mocking others is childish.
    We are all just names behind a keyboard (I realize some of us have met but that isn't what I mean) and people have no real way of knowing if we are really "Salty Jakes" or just a well read rookie that listened to a lot of coffee break tales.
    It so happens that many of us HAVE gotten to know each other and have cultivated friendships from being here. We are not "just names behind a keyboard". It is those "names" that bring nothing to the discussion except flaming and mocking others.
    Let's all be a little less high on ourselves and more tolerant of the others.
    OK. You start.
    Flame me, praise me or beat me up when we get off the bus.....I don't care...just be safe out there...
    The fact that you DON'T CARE is part of the problem, but thanks; I'll remember to be safe out there...and here!
    And before you unleash your next words of wisdom, remember:
    YOU BROUGHT IT UP!
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  23. #23
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    I haven't been here too long, but I've seen some changes. Some good, some not. But, I have to agree with some who are laying the blame on a small, disrespectful group. I've avoided posting on threads that are based on subjects where I know I'm going to get annoyed real quick, simply because I'll get blasted by somebody in the next post. And Yes, I do think that "Do a Search" is thrown out there too often.
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    Most eveyone gets on me about the search thing, I can take it. I would rather answer 500000000000000000000000posts with someone saying I tried the search but it didnt work OR ......I know this may have been discussed before but ______________. The ones who have minimal posts who post the questions AS IF no one would ask said questions do from time to time get on my last nerve. Treat 'em like probies ? When I was a probie, I did 2 things ..............learned ALOT on my own, and would ask other new people any questions I thought may have been redundant as they might have asked them too. I would NOT come to a place where there are tons ofeducated and experienced people askin for the millionth time "Staright Stick vs Towers/Platforms"..........I really will answer any questions, and most know I will search out somethings for you ........but it does get old. God Speed the newer firefighters who may not have the right spirit for the job.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    301

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    As one of the younger "pups" out there, I have been registered since 2002, but I spend more time reading posts from the experienced guys than I do posting.

    I have learned a substantial amount of good tips and tricks from guys on these forums by just reading them and learning. Some of these have stuck with me and out in the field, and have come in handy to "save the day".

    Thanks to all the guys and gals out there who have kept their composure and common sense. I certainly appreciate the advice even if someone else does not.

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