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Thread: TIC Deployment

  1. #1
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    Default TIC Deployment

    To expand from the other tic thread. I am more curious as to how and when your departments are deploying your imagers. At what stage of the incident are you using your tic's? Size up, fire attack, overhaul.
    Ours go in with the attack crew and the back up man is responsible for the imager.
    Does get to be a little cumbersome because our back up man also carries a forcible entry tool and obviously, backs up the nozzleman. Yes, we also have a helmet mounted tic, but not many are very fond of it. Handheld is preffered.


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    Question I'm a little confused.

    Does get to be a little cumbersome because our back up man also carries a forcible entry tool and obviously, backs up the nozzleman. Yes, we also have a helmet mounted tic, but not many are very fond of it. Handheld is preffered.
    ewelk33,

    If in one hand the back-up man has a tool and in the other he has a TIC...which hands does he use assist in the stretching & advancement of the handline and backing up the nozzle man? Usually backup requires two hands either way. Just carying one tool would foul this up, no?

    FTM-PTB

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    The tic is on a strap around one arm and an ax or halligan in another. Yes it makes the backup position difficult but no truck company and understaffed engines. This is reality.

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    I think you are giving the back up man way too many things to carry, with all that stuff, how can he possibly assist the nozzleman. In my opinion, if the TIC is to go in with the first line the officer should be carrying it, he can scout out in front of the line in search of the fire (priority task), keep accountability of crew and then use to assist with checking for extension. Just my thoughts.

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    In my career department all the Truck Co.'s, Rescue Co.'s, Haz Mat Co.'s and Safety Officers have them. On a typical working fire this gives us atleast 3 TIC's on the fireground. Currently the Truck Co. Officer usually handles the TIC. At our particular company, it is not uncommon to hand the TIC off to other members of the Truck Co. if they are in a better vantage point to use it. No TIC hogging here.

    All Engine Co.'s will be recieving them in the next few months (80 something TIC's) and then we will have no fewer than 7 TIC's on a working fire. When they get in service on the Engine Co.'s, I speculate you'll see the Officer handling them as their crews will be stretching and operating the line.

    Just a thought.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Forum Member jerrygarcia's Avatar
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    Our TIC is in the hands of the 2nd truckman. The way our company works is the FF behind the captain has the TIC. I usually carry a sledgehammer, axe and a hook. Most of my F/E is with the sledge, I drop it at the door of a resi, but carry it with me into apts.

    My FF that has the TIC is in charge of sweeping the area for the primary, and that way he always know where I am exactly and has the ability to adjust deployment with my hands free.

    It is attached with the lanyard so when it is possible, it hangs when not needed.

    At any fire in my first in district, there will be a minimum of 3 TIC's. I usually send ours out right after overhaul begins or hand it to the interior command(no tool, hands free officer). No need in the extra abuse and there is at least one other TIC inside still.

    I feel fortunate that we have so many TICs available to us, but we only got them after we lost a Battalion Chief in a warehouse fire in '99. High price to pay. If you see the thread of Kansas City's LAST drill(Large Area Search Training), be sure to watch it through the links provided. I see if I can link it later.

    In remeberance of Battalion Chief John Tvedten.


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    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    for us it seems that the TIC is used mostly for overhaul & check for extension once we get a knockdown. Obviously if we cant seem to find the seat of the fire we would deploy it rapidly.
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    On my shift, as the officer, I carry the camera, I have my 1st seat FF on the tip and my 2nd seat FF as backup to the tip, carrying one tool. I am normally third in line and "looking at the big picture".
    I try to have the TIC with me on all fire related incidents including alarms. I hate running back to the rig for equipment.

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    Forum Member len1582's Avatar
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    Every ladder,the rescue,squad, and battalion chief just got new Bullard T3's. All the T1's went to all the engines so everyone has a TIC. On the engine it's the officers who carry them, the other companies it's the officers call. The battalion chiefs generally enter the building and oversee interior operations when the deputy chief gets there,that's why they got them.
    A few years ago we tested the helmet mounted one and didn't like it at all. It didn't fit our(traditional) helmets very well,couldn't be handed off if you ran low on air,added 5 or 6 pounds to the helmet weight, had some sort of eyepiece you had to line up or you couldn't see very well and other stuff.One day after two fires with extended use the guy who had it ended up with a sore neck and wanted to throw it in the garbage.I could go on,but why bother.
    They are used from the very beginning of the fire to the end. From finding the fire in heavy smoke where you make your way through 3-4 black rooms and the fire is in the rear.During primary search,looking for extention,to overhaul.They're also part of the RIT teams equipment.
    Last edited by len1582; 05-03-2005 at 12:44 AM.

  10. #10
    Protective Economist Jonathan Bastian's Avatar
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    There are 3 rules for TI deployment:
    1. A TI should be at EVERY scene, because it may be able to assist you or help you gather additional information to make better decisions.
    2. The earlier a TI arrives on the scene, the more help it can offer. If it doesn't show up until the Squad arrives as the 5th company, than it probably can't help save too many lives...property, yes, but lives, no.
    3. You must practice regularly with the best way to assign, carry and use the TI with your other tools. You cannot expect a guy to practice hose and tool deployment every week, but then suddenly know how to do it with a TI on his shoulder when you actually pull up to "fire showing."

    If you intentionally limit your TI use, you are not getting your money's worth from the tool.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

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    we carry TIC's on all engines and the truck. camera goes in on attack with the backup man. We use MSA evolution 5000's (I'm pretty sure thats the full name) so they are small and attach to your jacket so your hands are free for assisting with the line and f/e. much better than our old ones that were bigger and had to be carried- TIC tactics have changed with the newer equipment, its great in zero visibility to be able to tell the nozzleman where the fire is. They are also used for overhall and have been used to locate ejected victims at MVA's and are often used to locate malfunctioning appliances etc. Obviously they are among primary tools for search and rescue at fires.

    www.palmerfire.org
    Last edited by Ladder27; 05-03-2005 at 01:51 PM.

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    Same deployment as Werji, primarily overhaul and post-knockdown. We will use it it situations where we do a search, but that is rare as in 99% of our fires the occupants are all out on our arrival. We do use it on all MVAs in brush or woods where are the occupants are unconcious to scan for anyone who may have been thrown from the vehicle, as well as most smoke investigations.

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    Forum Member TCFire's Avatar
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    We've only had our TI for a short period of time, so we're still working and training on tactics. It's on our first-out engine and we're training so that the 3rd man is responsible for grabbing it (#1 and #2 focus on advancing the line). Will be deployed for size-up and go in with the first attack line. Will be used for search and/or assisting the nozzle team, whichever is the immediate priority.

    Curious for those of you who have the Bullard TI Commander which is not a small camera: which do you find more useful/easy to use - the wrist lanyard or longer over-the-shoulder strap?

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    Forum Member Lewiston2FF's Avatar
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    I personnaly like the over the shoulder strap. I tend to go across my body with the strap so that I am not playing the keep the strap on my shoulder while working to do other things game. Some people use the wrist strap. I find it useless because then that thing is bouncing around in the way while you are trying to use your hands. If you put the strap across your body you can drop the camera, it falls to your side sort of out of the way, and when you want to use it again you can reach down and grab it.
    Shawn M. Cecula
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    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    MembersZone Subscriber Halligan84's Avatar
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    Company officers are assigned interior positions and carry the TIC. We have 3 of the Big Red Bullards (shoulder strap) and a newer T3 (clip onto SCBA)

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    Our policy is simple:Crew comes off the rig,the TI comes off the rig.Ours are on a sling so you can use your hands,sling up and take a look,and move to your next point.Who has the TI will depend on staffing for the day.Use early and often for maximum results. T.C.

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    Officer of the "truck" takes TIC with Irons man and Can man. 3 man search team. He scans and monitors, they search.

    Officer of the "engine" takes TIC with nozzleman and backup man. He scans/directs with TIC, nozzleman has nozzle, backup has hose and sometimes a Haligan and/or Axe married.

    Officers will also each have a Pry-Axe with them.


    Camera comes off and goes in on almost all calls with the officers.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  18. #18
    Protective Economist Jonathan Bastian's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TCFire
    Curious for those of you who have the Bullard TI Commander which is not a small camera: which do you find more useful/easy to use - the wrist lanyard or longer over-the-shoulder strap?
    I found the most comfortable system is the shoulder strap, with both clips in the D-ring on the right side, near the display. This makes the unit hang comfortably on my hip and keeps the strap from falling in front of the display or the lens during overhaul.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

  19. #19
    Forum Member TCFire's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Thanks for the strap opinions! I've found the longer strap to be more useful as well.

    Hey JB...I've really enjoyed the training CD that came with the camera. Nice Job!

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