Thread: Project HEROES

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Project HEROES

    This should be interesting....



    http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=46&id=41538

    New CBRN PPE.

    I do wonder if this will be made a mandatory thing.

    Probly all DHS grant money will have to be used on CBRN PPE, both SCBA and now bunker gear.

    Some things to note.

    Integrated hood, no choice any more, its integrated.

    Exhale hose into your coat. Positive pressure (sort of) to keep CBRN crud out. Supposed to cool you.

    Well, here it is anyway:

    What the IAFF and Morning Pride have come up with is:

    # The hood is always deployed, sealed together with the coat at the collar line. It is constructed of outer shell, moisture barrier, and thermal liner. A flexible gasket seal designed to fit SCBA is built into the hood. The coat closure zipper extends upward to seal hood around face piece.

    # The coat has a FIN liner attachment that creates a baffle that allows sealing with a vapor tight zipper.

    # The gloves interface with the coat sleeves with a magnet gasket seal. Lateral locks prevent disengagement but detach with twisting action.

    # A power lock strap provides coat to waist high pant interface seal. A built in collapsible fly eliminates the need for a zipper closure on the pants.

    # Sock-like bootie liner extension from the pant leg fits into boots that accept the bootie. A flap over the top of the boot prevents liquid leakage, keeping feet 100 percent dry.

    # An innovative system captures the SCBA exhalation feeding into a duct system in the coat. It provides positive pressure against exterior penetration and an upper torso cooling system.

    With the moisture barrier being the key sealant for exterior penetration, it permits the use of various outer shell and thermal barrier materials. The capturing of the exhaled air that is then circulated in the coat was said to act as a cooling system since in general firefighting conditions, outside temperatures surpass the temperatures of that air.
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    I can imagine a lot of career departments going this route. It is IAFF backed after all.

    Also, looks suspiciouly close to FDNY PPE...

    Hmmm...where does a lot of terrorism money end up...

    Hmmm...I kind of get the feeling that this is the prototype for what Morning Pride and whoever wants to see as a new FDNY PPE standard.

    Makes sence given the potential threats to NYC.

    But I dont know, if they make us out in podunk land buy all new PPE, even if it is from grants, then sheesh, we had all better buy stock in Monrning Pride.

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    Listened to all of the audio stuff.

    Testing is supposed to take place in "3 major cities" soon.

    Ready for mass production/adoption in early 06.

    So, anybody from a "Major City" out there that knows if they are going to be the guinie pigs?

    I would imagine NYC to be one sine the whole CBRN/Homeland Security issue hits closest to home there.

    It also said that is only going to be a few hundred dollars more per set of PPE.

    I can already hear the anti hood guys beating their drums...

    I can imagine the cost of replacing every set of PPE in the US with the new CBRN PPE!!! Holy cow, if that is their goal its going to take a long time and a LOT of money!!!
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Kinda idiotic for 99% of us out there. Kinda aggrivated at FH.com for even running such a story. My thing is look at the practicality of the whole concept....

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    I believe dhs was "allowing" cbrn on scbas if you could show good reason to spend the extra $$. I probly wouldn't be surprised, but it really makes no sense for them to mandate it. Our reason for not getting the cbrn on the new scotts was that if we do get chosen to receive the sarin (sp) gas bomb, our packs would be better equipped to survive, but we'd still be dead, so why spend the bucks. Same with the gear, and hopefully they will leave it as an option.
    I'm definitely for anything that will add protection, but as already stated, most of us don't need the expense. Personally, I don't need my breath pumping more moisture inside my gear at the average call.
    The suits will be handling the call for the most part, and if it gets real bad, I'm going with the "follow the green monkey" theory.

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    "Kinda idiotic for 99% of us out there. Kinda aggrivated at FH.com for even running such a story"

    Its a 750,000 Federal grant.....not something you can ignore.

    The actual more exciting thing about it is the new audio we'll be adding for bigger stories.

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    One for alls are not always a good thing. I think I understand the concept. Eliminate the costs and knowledge of having to know when to where your structural gear, a tyvek, suit, etc. Now we have this best equipped for everything suit! Yeeeaaahhhh.

    Kinda reminds me of E-One's great idea to start having patients transported in the rear of the cab with ALS engine companies. Why buy fire trucks and ambulances? Right. How many departments are using those great ideas?

    They may fool me, but I believe that certain equipment is suited for certain needs. Why make any portion of firefighting structural gear any more uncomfortable, cumbersome, or difficult to get into than neccessary. Considering that most gear has an effective life of 5 years or less, these changes will make using your gear more difficult or impractical 100% of the time for a modest if best chance of increased survival in a WMD event that at best your gear has a less than 1% chance of ever being in. People need to apply the risk / benefit rational of thinking to these kinds of decisions.

    And, it normally takes me a year or so to get some kind of significant rip, tear, or worn spot through my gear. Then what? Magnetic cuffs, vapor proof zippers won't matter much then huh? Give me a break!!
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    I spoke with one of their people at FDIC, for right now they only have an adapter for Scott Air-Paks. I wonder how something like that will effect the NIOSH & NFPA approvals on the SCBA. What kind of testing will have to be done and how often to ensure that you haven't damaged any of the different parts of the suit. I would think the cost of doing something like that on a regular basis would not be cheap.

    Just my thoughts!

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    I think it could have its place for some things. But if Morning Pride is the only Manf. doing this, then will the others do the same? For everyday use, I don't think its a good idea. But to use for the calls where Haz-Mat is possible, then it could be used. I saw it at FDIC, I got the 2 cent speech on the concept. But how many uses do you get out of this gear in a Haz-Mat incident? Does it clean like other gear, or if it gets contaminated do you pitch it like regular suits.

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    I would like to hear the big city FFs sound off on this.

    The Metro guys are the ones most likely to have to make the change over.

    I do think that is more the thrust of this. Picture a terrorist atack in a metro area.

    Sure, you have your Haz Mat teams, but they only comrpise a small portion of the responders.

    Most of the FFs on the line will be from regular companies.

    Say a dirty bomb (pic your flavor, doesnt matter) is detonated. At least all of your FFs will have a basic level of protection from CBRN.

    There will be more terrorirst attacks, and they will likely take place in Metro areas.

    Its just a matter of time.

    Wheater or not this type of PPE is madated...well, we shall just have to wait and see.

    It could be one of those things that if you get a grant then you HAVE to buy CBRN PPE. I can hardly belive that the Fire Act grant hasent went that route give the DHS involvement.

    Kind of like the interoperable communications grants you can get...sure, buy some radios, but the HAVE to be P25 super radios for 5 times the price.

    I think the CBRN PPE is a good idea for high risk areas, IE Metro areas. The rural bumpkins like me could benefit from it on the level of having at least a small level of CBRN/HAZMAT protection for the daily events such as a chem spill or what have you.

    More protection is usualy a good thing IMO.

    But I do want to wait and hear some reviews from the field.
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    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

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    Originally posted by Lieutenant387
    Kinda idiotic for 99% of us out there. Kinda aggrivated at FH.com for even running such a story. My thing is look at the practicality of the whole concept....


    What the heck, its news isnt it, why wouldnt FH run it?

    Anyway, this has the potential to bring a lot of changes to the fire service...and open up entire new debates!!!

    Less of the leather Vs. plastic, etc...

    It might be CBRN Vs. Regular PPE.

    CBRN PPE brings a lot of things that some FFs wont like. Like the integrated hood, etc....

    Should make for some new discussion...I hope.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    I predict that it will be a total flop.

    Just a guess, might be wrong.
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    That is very possible.

    Another thing occured to me. The CBRN PPE if actualy exposed to CBRN would have to be disposed of right after the incident and after a full strip down decon show.

    The outer shell would likly absorb CBRN to the point it had to be trashed.

    So, if you actualy have a CBRN incident you would have to have back up PPE.

    This is a minor thing of course for a true terrorist atack, but something to consider if people are silly and try to use this stuff as psudo hazmat gear.

    Which will likely happen given human nature.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Two grants were awarded for developing this new style of gear, one to Morning Pride and one to Lion. Lion from what I hear isn't as far in development and production? That may be why you have only seen the Morning Pride version. My own personal experience is that Morning Pride is usually ahead of other manufactures in product development and testing.

    From the IAFF:

    April 14, 2005 – The IAFF demonstrated a prototype of the next-generation of fire fighting gear as part of its “Project HEROES” (Homeland Emergency Response Operational and Equipment Systems) initiative during the Fire Department Instructor Conference (FDIC) in Indianapolis, Indiana.

    Funded by a federal government contract from the Technical Support Working Group (TSWG) with funding from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the IAFF project team consists of leading fire service organizations and academia that have been tasked to rapidly develop, prototype and field test structural fire fighting PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) with enhanced chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear (CBRN) protective qualities to account for today’s new threats.

    “Fire Departments do not have the resources to provide multiple garments for each responder, so one multi-purpose suit offers the best protection for fire fighters against any hazard,” said IAFF General President Harold Schaitberger. “The Project HEROES prototype will be revolutionary because it will offer the highest level of protection without the burden of extra weight, loss of mobility and added stress, so our fire fighters can do their job.”

    The IAFF project team also includes the International Association of Fire Chiefs (IAFC), Total Fire Group/Morning Pride Manufacturing, a leading fire service ensemble manufacturer, the National Personal Protection Technology Laboratory of the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), International Personnel Protection and two academic partners – the University of Massachusetts and the University of Arkansas.

    Field assessments at major metropolitan fire departments will take place this spring to evaluate the new technology and lead to its subsequent commercialization.

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    Well, I guess I see it this way.

    If its the new standard, and if grant money can be had to try and get some, great, I will go for it.

    I dont see us running out and trying to change over without grant support though.

    Maybe as PPE wears out we might.

    I do like that added little bit of protection in Hazmat incidents though.

    That would be nice for us, we a very rural and we have to wait a long time for a real HAZMAT team to arrive.

    The CBRN PPE might just save you some serious hurt when walking into a unknown Hazmat situation.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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