1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    197

    Default what would you do...

    ...when an adjacent department is allowing several young men, who have not received any training whatsoever, to respond to emergencies on the trucks, in full turnout and airpacks, and even allowing them to make entry (until someone recognizes them and puts the breaks on)?

    this is very worrisome to me, as we both request and render mutual aid to this department several times a year.

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    KeithA8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Work in West Hartford, CT
    Posts
    411

    Default

    1st - Talk to their training officer.

    2nd - If the talk got you no where then call OSHA.
    IAFF member, Love this job! Remember the oath!

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    fireguy919's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    eastern Ohio
    Posts
    952

    Default

    I would talk to there chief and adive him when we call this is what we want. We had to work it out with one department we run with. we call for tanker and get tanker two engines and there chiefs car on scene.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,617

    Default

    My advice would be to make other mutual aid arrangements if it bothers you that much. In all honesty, they have the right to run thier department as they see fit. If the chief asks why they have been taken off the run card, by all means tell him, but to me any action which would appear to be questioning the management of the department would be inapproitte. Be prepared to cite specific examples of when the lack of training caused a safety or operational issue as without definite examples, it will definatly seem like you are tinkering in THIER business.

    Just my thoughts.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    fftrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Northern, NJ
    Posts
    889

    Default

    You need to address this with the Chief of the said department.

    Until this practice changes, I would be going elsewhere for mutual aid. Even though they are not your members, if you call mutual aid, they become your guys while they operate on the scene of the incident you requested them to.

    As an officer, I would want it addressed. I will admit, in some cases it is difficult to know what other departments do and who is qualified to do what, but if you know they are not, something has to be said.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    reeveo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    D/FW, Texas, USA
    Posts
    87

    Default

    I've seen a similar situation unfold firsthand in my area. A local VFD lost a good amount of officers and experienced FFs due to a political p*ssing contest and the subsequent fallout. They had been on the list as mutual aid for a few other depts. and in fact were first out for a nearby city. When the news hit the grapevine, which took all of a few minutes, the mutual aid calls stopped. And a couple of those depts. called and stated that they would be hard pressed to send a MA engine.
    I can understand the concerns on both sides. As a chief why would I want a crew of inexperienced FFs on my scene that could result in my guys being put in harms way? Or why would I want to put my guys on scene w/ an untrained dept? For the dept. that lost most of their staff they need to give their guys experience but w/ no more calls how is that done? Well, they got their officers back in place as best as possible, recruited like hell and then set up a training program to address the deficiencies. After all that was in place they started a PR campaign with the other depts. and slowly the calls started up again.
    In a nutshell the other depts. expressed concern to the chief for valid reasons. I would make sure your chief is aware and perhaps your dept. could offer some assistance in getting this other dept. up to speed so to speak. Identify the problem AND be part of the solution. IMHO.
    "lo que sea, cuando sea, donde sea"

    J. Reeves FF/NREMT

    http://www.ev911.org
    http://www.careflite.org
    http://www.standbymedical.com

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    197

    Default

    thank you for your responses. to make sure this is understood, these new guys were just pulled from the street and fitted in structural turnout. i mean, no training at all. i would think, and am almost sure, that this is illegal. right???

  8. #8
    Permanently Removed
    CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Default Yo..

    Before anyting, three words- document, document, document.

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    ndvfdff33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Winterpeg Manitoba
    Posts
    2,461

    Default

    I can't do anything..It happens at my dept ...We had one of our female members get a crash course in SCBA on the way to a fire 2 weeks ago
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    We allow new FF's with no training to get gear, and their helmets are marked with orange reflective stripes, for easy recognition. They ARE NOT allowed to pack up and they can get booted from the truck from any other senior member. It definetly is an internal problem that needs to be dealt with and I would certainly have my Chief call his Chief .........thats just not safe.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Rescue2947's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    139

    Default

    Originally posted by Weruj1
    We allow new FF's with no training to get gear, and their helmets are marked with orange reflective stripes, for easy recognition. They ARE NOT allowed to pack up and they can get booted from the truck from any other senior member. It definetly is an internal problem that needs to be dealt with and I would certainly have my Chief call his Chief .........thats just not safe.
    Agreed, we also have them geared up, with reflective tape on there helmets so they are easily spotted. All they can do is fetch. I agree with Weruj tell your advisor and if he feels it nessasary to tell the others than fine. Its gonna fall on the Commander of that incident if somthing wrong happens. I know if its our run we take care of the problem. If its they're call, and they're in charge we take care of our buisness and let them worry about there lawsuits.

    If they are sending you in and expecting you to take them in? Dont do it back out and make damn sure they get you sombody that knows what the hell there doing.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    E229Lt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    2,987

    Default

    If you feel members are being put at risk it is your duty to act. If you are in an OSHA state, refer the offending party.

    Since OHIO is not an OSHA state, you must find out the requirements mandated for IDLH and the like and who the governing body is.
    Last edited by E229Lt; 05-10-2005 at 11:17 PM.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    868

    Default

    Originally posted by ndvfdff33
    I can't do anything..It happens at my dept ...We had one of our female members get a crash course in SCBA on the way to a fire 2 weeks ago
    I've been in situations where members have had to be sent in who have done all of their theory and practical SCBA training but are still waiting for their practical assessment. I once had to choose my partner out of three members who were trained to this level, I wasn't comfortable with it, but the circumstances were such that we didn't have a lot of choice at the time (basically every company within 500 miles was fighting fire that day, so we couldn't just wait until more firefighters turned up as we would have lost a few suburbs first).
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    868

    Default

    Originally posted by ndvfdff33
    I can't do anything..It happens at my dept ...We had one of our female members get a crash course in SCBA on the way to a fire 2 weeks ago
    ndvfd - just curious - what were the circumstances of this call? How did the member do?

    It's certainly not a situation I would want one of our members to be put in.
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    868

    Default

    bump...
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register