1. #1
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    Default Ignoring 911 call prompts 2 firings

    Two paramedics are dismissed for failing to respond to a caller who frequently dialed 911 when there was no emergency.

    http://www.sptimes.com/2005/05/10/No...call_pro.shtml

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    Good article, and good issue. In my opinion, should the medics be fired, or at least HEAVILY punished (AKA split up, drop in pay, whatever as opposed to firing), I think that it is more an indication of not using one other big resource. The police. Unless I am mistaken, isn't calling 911 repeatedly without cause some kind of offense, even if it's only a fine or something?
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    Sorry, missed the "unanswered" bit. Yeah, then they both should be canned. However, if they were mad or whatever, then have the police follow them. Again, my bad.
    Isiah 43: When you walk through the fire,
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    Angry THEY SHOULD BE FIRED >>>>>>>GOOFS

    while we get frquent fliers here on a ROUTINE basis,as do most places you still gotta go, BS Or not ...........a ttoally dispicable act with a poor reflection given to a Fire/EMS agency.
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    I agree. We once had a "Frequent Flyer", and eventually everyone memorized the address and took their time/or just didnt show up. The last time we were called to that address . . . it was a full arrest.

    We don't get called there anymore.

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    Our frequent flier that called the most never called us for the big one. He used to call us all the time. He knew all the signs and symptoms of an MI and would have every one when you got there. You could even make up a few of your own and the next time he called, he would have those too.

    Didn't get called for awhile and the PD got called for an odor in the building (don't know why FD didn't get called, though) and they found him. He'd been there for a couple days at least.......

    As much of a pain in the ***** they are, we still have to take them seriously....... If they are abusing the system, get the PD involved.....
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    The medics need to be punished. Its there duty to provide a service. If they are having routine problems with the individual it needs to be passed on to proper authorities to have the problem dealt with the right way. This is very unprofessional and makes the department or services look bad, no matter what the out come.

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    OK, Im starting to get more info. The word is, the call came in as an OD, which in our system is a stage for PD call. The house was just down the street from their station. They advised dispatch that they would stage at the station and wait for PD to clear the scene. PD arrived, cleared the scene and advised medics were not needed.

    Problem is, in our system, you still have to respond. PD is not recognized as being able to decide if a patient needs medics or not. I also heard that the department had investigated and just handed out a suspension. It wasnt untill the county's medical directors office found out during a routine QA review that the sh** hit the fan.
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    Originally posted by Dave1983
    I also heard that the department had investigated and just handed out a suspension. It wasnt untill the county's medical directors office found out during a routine QA review that the sh** hit the fan.
    Double Jeopardy!!!
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
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    Alex, "What is we are F*()&D for 500$ ?
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
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    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Originally posted by Dave1983
    OK, Im starting to get more info. The word is, the call came in as an OD, which in our system is a stage for PD call. The house was just down the street from their station. They advised dispatch that they would stage at the station and wait for PD to clear the scene. PD arrived, cleared the scene and advised medics were not needed.

    Problem is, in our system, you still have to respond. PD is not recognized as being able to decide if a patient needs medics or not. I also heard that the department had investigated and just handed out a suspension. It wasnt untill the county's medical directors office found out during a routine QA review that the sh** hit the fan.
    Hmmm even with the new news, I would still go on the punishment side as Dave said
    Problem is, in our system, you still have to respond. PD is not recognized as being able to decide if a patient needs medics or not.
    So they still didnt follow procedures. To bad what they thought was a routine call ended up not being so routine.

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    Update...

    OK, now the story I get (from another CFD FF) is the crew didnt stage at the station, they went available and told dispatch to have PD call for them back if needed.

    They are going to fight it, and from what I understand they have a good case. Word is, there was a similar incident with another crew several years ago, this time with a patient actually haveing an MI, and the crew was given time off but not fired.

    The key here is, the crew in the case years ago are white. The two medics fired last week are black. I wasnt aware, but apparently CFD has some serious racial issues (again, this from another CFD employee). Unfortunatly, it sounds like the "race card" may be played here. I say unfortunate as bad things usually come from that.

    On a side note, even if they get their jobs back, the county medical director will probably pull their county medic certs.

    More to follow I'm sure...
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    Bump.
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    Originally posted by firenresq77
    Double Jeopardy!!!
    I don't think that applies to this situation.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Originally posted by Dave1983

    Problem is, in our system, you still have to respond. PD is not recognized as being able to decide if a patient needs medics or not.
    I don't see a problem here Dave. It may be (in some cases) redundant to send EMS in if there positively no problem upon an assessment by PD. It is that one in a thousand that will bite you the hardest. We get cancelled by PD, SO, and CHP regularly on MVA's. I personally reduce to code 2 and do a quick drive by the scene. I check for enough vehicle damage to compromise the air bag system. It's not that I don't trust the officers judgement, I just have more training in the areas of extrication and air bag systems than they might.

    I gotta agree with Bou, on the other post as well. The way they handled it was wrong but, the frustration of constantly having to respond to a system abuser can build up in you. We have quite a few "drug seekers" and others who think we are a taxi service. The know exactly what to say to get a priority 1 response and a ride to the hospital. I hope they get to keep their jobs. Maybe a lesser punishment would suffice.
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    Thumbs down

    UPDATE

    Had to know this was comming...


    Fired firefighters fighting back
    Thursday, October 13, 2005

    Murray and Jones say white firefighters in the same situation were treated differently.

    Two former Clearwater firefighter/paramedics fired for not responding to a 911 call are fighting back.

    The men say they were fired because of their race.


    http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2...13/123313.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    UPDATE
    The men say they were fired because of their race.[/URL]
    Oh of course. I suppose it's george bush's fault too, right?
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I would blame FEMA.

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    We have a duty and get paid to respond.

    I do recall allowing a drunk to listen to a box alarm we missed with reports of a trapped victim while we waited on the ambulance to arrive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    The story just keeps getting better

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    Quote Originally Posted by Workingfire22
    I agree. We once had a "Frequent Flyer", and eventually everyone memorized the address and took their time/or just didnt show up. The last time we were called to that address . . . it was a full arrest.

    We don't get called there anymore.

    I guess not

    We used to get several calls for a particular address in our local for a "Frequent Flyer" who complained from not feeling well to chest pains. -- Basically he'd dehydrate him-self, not take his medication, and generally wine to his wife about every little ailement. He'd call during prime time hours {Somehow he was never sick when he had a golf outting or social event} and when we started giving him a rashen of sh** he fiqured he'd get smart and call during the over night --- Well I ended that. After 4 or 5 responses to this residence in one month for absolute B.S. I informed this patient that his hospital of choice was in divert status and if he wanted to go he would be transported to a facility 2 counties to the south and almost 2hours away. He bought into it, he was instantly cured and we haven't been back since -- Easy Report -- No report, no patient contact and wrote it off as a service call.

    This all came after telling him he needed to stop abusing the 9-1-1 service - Could I have been disiplined for such an action ? probably but on 3 occassions my boss {Fire Chief} was my driver and he was fully aware.

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    Exclamation from todays news ............

    Arbitrator Orders Florida City to Rehire Paramedic

    St. Petersburg Times (Florida)

    CLEARWATER - City officials denied former paramedic Trevor Murray "basic notions of fairness and due process" when they fired him for not responding to a call, a federal arbitrator has ruled.

    Arbitrator Martin O. Holland ordered that the city rehire Murray into a similar job, give him back pay and help him get his paramedic's certification reinstated.

    In a 35-page decision, Holland outlined a series of shortcomings in the city's decision to fire Murray:


    Clearwater fire Chief Jamie Geer apparently withheld a report that did not support firing Murray from human resources officials.


    The city's Human Resources Department did not conduct its own investigation of the circumstances surrounding the incident, nor did the department's director view all of the evidence before firing Murray.


    Despite having more than 215 employees, Clearwater Fire & Rescue does not have a written policy or procedures to investigate violations of its rules or policy.

    "The discharge of (Murray) is the labor equivalent of capital punishment," Holland wrote. "After 10 years of 'excellent service to the city,' Murray just can't move and resume his paramedic's career."

    Murray, 40, was fired in May 2005 for not responding to a 911 call, city officials said.

    Murray, who worked 10 years as a Clearwater paramedic, was thankful that the decision went his way.

    "God is good," Murray said. "I prayed over this. I feel that I have been vindicated. I made a good-faith error in judgment. Anyone who knows me knows I never tried to avoid work. I made an error in judgment. But I've been humbled by this experience."

    Clearwater City Manager Bill Horne said he was surprised by the arbitrator's decision based on the city's understanding of the facts. He said the city will take this week to consider its next step.

    "We are reviewing the whole thing," Horne said. "I'm not going to make any comments until we can review it. If I make any comments now, I'll be speculating."

    On March, 26, 2005, Murray and co-worker Mike Jones didn't leave the fire station when a call came in for a woman claiming that she was raped.

    Recognizing the caller's address as that of a woman who often reported false claims of sexual assaulted, Murray told the dispatcher to make them "available" for the next call and to alert them if police got there and decided that they needed assistance. The woman, who was not raped, was taken to a mental hospital.

    Murray and Jones were fired May, 12, 2005. Jones is still awaiting the outcome of a separate hearing on his firing.

    Despite Murray's poor judgment, Holland wrote, his mistake did not warrant termination.

    After the incident, Randy Bacher, who was then Fire & Rescue's deputy chief of operations, conducted an investigation in which he spoke with all parties, including their supervisors, and received information from the police. Bacher recommended that Murray review policy and be counseled.

    "I don't think that (firing) was the appropriate action based on the circumstances," Bacher said Monday of Murray's firing.

    But Geer conducted his own investigation and sent his findings to Joe Roseto, the city's human resources director. He apparently did not, however, pass along Bacher's report, Holland said.

    "It appears Chief Geer decided to conduct his own investigation when he apparently felt Chief Bacher was too favorable" toward Murray, Holland wrote.

    Moreover, Holland concluded that Geer improperly withheld the 911 dispatch tape of the March 26 incident as well as "substantial Clearwater Police Department documentation" showing the caller's abuse of the 911 system.

    On Monday, Geer said he did give Roseto Bacher's report.

    "The entire file was shared with Human Resources from the very beginning," Geer said. "When termination notices are recommended, the entire packet goes to HR. That's why it's imperative that we go back and study this with our legal team."

    Roseto testified in Murray's hearing that he never listened to the 911 tape nor did he read any of the dispatch reports before making the ultimate decision to fire Murray.

    Roseto said Monday that just because he didn't listen to the tape or read Bacher's report doesn't mean that someone on his staff didn't view the materials.

    "My staff does very, very thorough research on any (disciplinary) matter," Roseto said. "My staff may have looked at it and made the recommendation. I didn't, but my staff did and gave me their perspective."

    David Hogan, secretary-treasurer of Local 1158, the union that helped Murray through his appeal, said it's inexcusable that an employee's entire file is not viewed.

    "Like Harry Truman said: 'The buck stops here,' " Hogan said. "If you are going to make a recommendation to terminate somebody and take away their livelihood, you should be ready to make a personally informed decision."

    Holland's decision is the latest in a series of recent decisions that have found that the city wronged Fire & Rescue employees in personnel matters.

    In May, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission determined that Geer discriminated against 20-year veteran Lt. Wendy Cason when he did not let her take a makeup promotion exam, while a male firefighter was allowed to take a makeup test.

    On three occasions in the past two months, a federal hearing officer has determined that Geer violated the rights of union members in unfair labor practice complaints filed by the union. The city settled a fourth unfair labor practice complaint by the union alleging that Geer was arbitrarily denying union members leave time for union meetings, as per the bargaining agreement.

    "We got a federal arbitrator, two separate law hearing officers and the three PERC commissioners, all of them finding that there have been grave and fundamental mismanagement decisions in the city of Clearwater," said Paul Donnelly, the attorney who has represented Murray and other union members against the city.

    "We are hopeful that the elected officials and the city manger will turnover a new leaf and accept the union Local 1158 request to work positively and cooperatively to have a labor management retreat, to meet, to discuss to be positive and to restore good relations," Donnelly said.

    THE ARBITRATOR'S FINDINGS

    "Chief Bacher's formal investigation report was very favorable to (Trevor Murray). It appears Chief Geer not only disapproved of Chief Bacher's investigation, but also omitted the documents from the disciplinary file when it was submitted to the city manager's office."

    Geer responded that he did send Bacher's report to Human Resources.

    "When the city failed to consider favorable evidence, which undermines or mitigates the decision to terminate, find basic notions of fairness and due process were not afforded."

    City officials said they were considering whether to challenge the ruling.
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    You beat me too it...

    Needless too say, this is the hot topic around here. Were all waiting to see if the ruling will be the same with his partner. I cant imagin it wouldnt be.

    I feel bad for the brothers and sisters of CFD. The city brought this "head hunter" chief in and he has been makeing life misserable for them. I just hope that with a few more judgments against the city they will can this mutt and start working for a positive change ...
    Last edited by Dave1983; 09-20-2006 at 09:11 PM.
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    Default Update

    The city has re-hired one of the two FF/Medics who were fired, but have re-assigned him to fire prevention. His lawyer says thats not good enough.

    Story:

    http://www.sptimes.com/2007/01/23/No...amedic_a.shtml
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