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  1. #1
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    Question Mine's BIGGER?!?!?!?

    I noticed in another thread that one of you guys from overseas, I believe, mentioned on the size of the apparatus we have over here. I noticed from some of the pictures in that thread that it did not look as if some of those ladder, platforms, etc. carried as many ground ladder as we are required to carry over here.

    Ouestion is what regulations are required for your apparatus? Such as NFPA 1901 here in the US.


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    All opinions expressed are solely of my personal opinion and in no way reflect those of my department. This is for those of you who use a large stick to stir excrement.


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    Down here in Australia, there are no regulations/standards for fire apparatus, other than those set by vehicle safety authorities and things that our version of OSHA would mandate for use on any aerial device (fire service or commercial).

    Pumpers generally carry 1 ground ladder (some carry two), and a lot carry some sort of internal ladder (Little Giant, Waku etc).

    Pump size is what ever the department decides is necessary for the area that the pumper is going to serve (well that's sort of how it works), and generally most pumpers are no bigger than 1000gpm - most are only 750gpm.

    Most aerials don't carry ground ladders down here - they are strictly an aerial - with or without a pump.

    Hope this helps.

    Some standards would be good though.
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  3. #3
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    Default Gear

    How bout your turn out gear? Who regulates that?

  4. #4
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    The National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA) regulate almost everything to do with the fire service.

    As for turnout gear: NFPA 1971 for structural PPE, and NFPA 1977 for wildland PPE.
    LT/EMT Wright
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    All opinions expressed are solely of my personal opinion and in no way reflect those of my department. This is for those of you who use a large stick to stir excrement.

  5. #5
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
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    40 foot wooden extension thingy that gets used bugger all.

    20 foot Ali extension ladder that gets used heaps.

    bridge a gap.

    Take apart, shove a salvage sheet in it and make a portable dam, easier with a long handled shovel to make the triangle.

    transport a vic if you are shor handed and in the brown stuff (throw your jackets on it for padding)

    any other uses?

    put up the decorations at Christmas.
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  6. #6
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    Originally posted by loxfire16
    The National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA) regulate almost everything to do with the fire service.

    As for turnout gear: NFPA 1971 for structural PPE, and NFPA 1977 for wildland PPE.
    NFPA is ONLY a recommendation. NFPA does not have any regulatory authority. At least not in this part of the world. Some states adopt the standard and that makes them a law for the given state.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Gear

    Originally posted by SchmmidyABVFC
    How bout your turn out gear? Who regulates that?
    There is an Australian Standard for turnout gear, it's been in place now for about 4 years, unfortunately we(my department) is still stuffing about doing research and so we haven't got decent gear yet.

    One of the things that would be good with vehicle standards is that hopefully they would regulate that there has to be an SCBA set for every available seat - currently a lot of our apparatus only carry 2 sets.
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

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  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber SteveDude's Avatar
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    The UK Fire Service is regulated Nationally by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and formerly by the Home Office.

    This has been the same since the war ensuring standards of Training, equipment, Pay, Uniform, Ranks etc...etc... right across the UK. Therefore a Fire Engine right down in Cornwall could use all of its hose and equipment at a fire right up in Scotland...effectively you could connect hose right the way from one end of the Country to the other.

    Before WW2, there was very little control outside of the large Cities...there were 100's if not 1000's of small Village and Town Fire Brigades, all with variations in equipment and so on. You can imagine, with the arrival of the Blitz, and almost every major town and city on fire night after night...this didn't make for a good day out for the Country's Fire Crews.

    Since we were 'sold out' to the European Union, we now have to adopt EU standards on everything in the UK...not just in the Fire Service. For example, one of the regulations for PPE is an EU Dictat which is why gradually every one of the 60 Fire Authorities in the UK is moving over to ther French Style Fire Helmet...some are using the French Gallett, other are increasingly using the UK Version Cromwell F600, in London we have used this since 1999.

    Fire Appliance design is based around Joint Committee on Design and Development (JCDD for short) Specification. Every type of vehicle and piece of equipment has a JCCD spec, ensuring the standard is met across the UK. JCDD's are a broad framework with local variations...clearly what you need for London, one of the biggest Cities in the World is a lot different to what you will need on a remote Scottish Island.

    As for the Aerials... we do not Operate an Engine/Ladder type set up....we have Firefighters on Pumps...who do it all. The building construction used in the UK does not allow for aggressive ventialtion etc which is the historical ethos behind the 'hook and ladder' Even London, which is the third biggest Urban Fire Department in the World only has 11 Aerials (OK we all agree that they have been cut back too far, it used to be around 20) but they are manned with a Driver Operator and an Officer and are used purely as a Water Tower or for Rescues. The Pumps carry the ground ladders, therefore Aerials are on a much smaller Chassis

    Obviously, with the smaller roads and tightly packed Towns and cities in the UK, our Fire Engines are much smaller and agile. Acceleration and manoeuvrability are key in the design and development...as an aside, I have had many US Firefighter visit and ride out....everyone of them has come back from their first run looking a little more pale than when they left...and looking around the front for the Sports car that 'must have been towing it'

    Hope that explains your query...as ever I am here to answer any further questions.
    Last edited by SteveDude; 05-13-2005 at 02:01 PM.
    Steve Dude
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  9. #9
    Forum Member SpartanGuy's Avatar
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    I don't know Steve. It's kinda interesting trying to fit a big truck in tight spaces. Keeps us from getting bored

    Your post brought back a lot of driving memories. Like sliding down the interstate sideways(Still on our wheels mind you) two winters ago! I still don't know HOW I prevented that truck from rolling over
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  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber SteveDude's Avatar
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    oohhh...
    I Had that happen to me about 6 years ago....going round a roundabout with ice on the road... it was wors becuase I was up front as the Officer...it was quite bad anyway, but when the Driver was just spinning the wheel like it wasn't connected that made my night a bit worse....and we laughed!!!!
    Steve Dude
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    London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


    'Irony'... It's a British thing.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Been there, done that too.

    Our new engine arrived last fall, and after a big early season storm, we wanted to see how it handled in the snow.

    It drove great until we stopped on a mild hill. When we tried to get moving again, it lost traction and started sliding backwards. I couldn't stop it, so I had to pull a sliding 180 to get the front end facing downhill and in control again. Luckily no damage, and in the end it almost looked like I meant to do it.

    Talk about wet shorts. I sure didn't want to be the first to dent the $300,000 engine.


    And as for the UK engines, the efficiency of them has always impressed me. I don't know how they pack all that gear into such a little truck.
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  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber SteveDude's Avatar
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    And as for the UK engines, the efficiency of them has always impressed me. I don't know how they pack all that gear into such a little truck.
    Heres how....BIG LOCKERS!!!!
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    Steve Dude
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  13. #13
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    stevedude,

    Is that a rear mounted pump panel? Also, I don't see any pre-connected crosslays like you see over here. Where do you keep you hose?
    LT/EMT Wright
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    All opinions expressed are solely of my personal opinion and in no way reflect those of my department. This is for those of you who use a large stick to stir excrement.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber SteveDude's Avatar
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    Yes, the Pump is a rear mounted 1000 gpm Multi Stage (High & Low Pressure) pump. We used to keep a length of preconnected 1.75 inch on the back, but it was hardly used. The guys generally grab the High Pressure Hosereels of lay out hose from the lockers...bearing in mind, we have the hose on a quickly deployable 'Dutch roll' and we use 'Instantaneous' couplings....they just snap together without tightening, twisting etc...

    This enables the hoseline to be deployed pretty much as quick as pulling a pre-connected line and saves the waste of space on the roof of the pump for a hose bed. We have 10x 75' 2.5 inch lengths and 4x 75' 1.75 inch lengths. In other more rural departments they may carry more.

    If we need anymore hose then we call on a hoselayer which will provide us with a mile of 3" or 5" hose. London PUmps also carry 300 gallons of water...Rural Brigades usually have a 500 gallon tank on their Pumps. I am only speaking for LFB when I mention the pre-connects. I know some other UK Brigades still keep a inch and three quarter length connected at the back.
    Steve Dude
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    London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


    'Irony'... It's a British thing.

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