1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    119

    Default Firefighters telling on themselves

    Take a look at the article from the Tenn. House fire this week

    Story Here

    See anything wrong ?!!? Looks like someone needs to go back to FF1 and relearn proper PPE
    Troutville Volunteer Fire Department
    www.tvfd.org

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    465

    Default

    You know what I think is funny about some of the pics that are submitted to Firehouse? You would think they would know that pics where PPE are not properly worn are going to get ripped apart on the boards. Yet they submit them anyway.

    I would never submit a picture like that here. You are just asking for it.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    I notice two things:

    on pictures one and five, there are people on the roof without air pakcs.

    on picture five, there is a hoseline on the roof. Last I checked, you weren't supposed to spray water where a fire was venting from.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    North Wisconsin
    Posts
    165

    Wink

    on picture five, there is a hoseline on the roof. Last I checked, you weren't supposed to spray water where a fire was venting from.
    It's my understanding that when available a line should / could be taken onto the roof for the protection of the crews working up there, and not meant to be used unless obviously something rather upsetting happens. However, if you do have a line up there, better make sure every knows what to do as the temptation to put the wet stuff on the venting red stuff can be rather appealing. Would hate to make things worse for the guys inside eh!

    Cheers

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,688

    Default

    Fawlty, I've heard that also. And my reply has always been, if it's that bad on the roof that I need a line protecting me...I'm getting off that roof.

    The other picture with the guy right outside the window getting a face full of smoke is a beauty also. I'm sure he was just there for an instant though.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    I knew I was going to see this thread somewhere......
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    RyanEMVFD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    Why? It's not like you're going to visit me! But I'm near Waco, Texas
    Posts
    2,386

    Default

    I remember a thread regarding hoselines on rooftops in the past. I've always been for it since it can be used for a downed firefighter using the nance drill or columbus drill, take your pick.

    Remember alot of people visit the website but not the forums. Since we do, we do have the tendacity to tear pics apart. Though I agree that those on top should have scbas on.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
    IACOJ Attack

    Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    Res343cue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Your 1st due.
    Posts
    1,651

    Default

    nance drill or columbus drill,
    What are the Nance drill and Columbus drill?

    And if you tell me a drill is a power tool..well, then I'm going to be disappointed.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Waterboro, Maine
    Posts
    520

    Default

    The guy with the face full of smoke must be a safety officer, who is up there trying to get those other guys to put on scbas.
    There goes the neighborhood.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    BFDNJFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Iraq
    Posts
    1,508

    Default

    ok is it just me or does it state there were flames coming through the roof upon arrival ..........ok fire vented itself .....i would think hmmmm heavy fire load and already vented itself so no need to even go up there to do any venting

    this is just a thaught
    ******=================
    ******================
    ******=================
    ******================
    =======================
    =======================
    =======================

    ------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Auburn, KS
    Posts
    29

    Default Nance Drill

    If and I say if because I don't recall, but IF it is the same as the Denver drill is a rescue technique for retreiving a trapped firefighter. There is a box to be made for the drill. I have dimmensions if anybody is interested. I teach at my department. Learned it in a "Saving Our Own" class. GREAT DRILL!!!
    FF/EMT Erik ("Woody") Wood
    Auburn Fire/Rescue
    Auburn, KS

  12. #12
    Disillusioned Subscriber
    Steamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,475

    Default

    Originally posted by Res343cue

    What are the Nance drill and Columbus drill?

    And if you tell me a drill is a power tool..well, then I'm going to be disappointed.
    John Nance was a Columbus, Ohio firefighter that went through a floor into the basement of a building in 1987. Long story short, he died when they were unable to get to him quickly enough to accomplish a rescue.

    It's essentially rope techniques to lift a firefighter through a hole.
    Last edited by Steamer; 05-19-2005 at 11:15 PM.
    Steve Gallagher
    IACOJ BOT
    ----------------------------
    "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Glad this post stirred some discussion while i was asleep (stupid night shift)

    But yea it appears several things are wrong 1 i would eval why they even have firefighters on the roof 2 half of them don't have SCBA's

    Thanks for the comments everyone.

    And i would also atleast have a hoseline to the roof incase something went wrong not to be spraying in a window.
    Troutville Volunteer Fire Department
    www.tvfd.org

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    RyanEMVFD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    Why? It's not like you're going to visit me! But I'm near Waco, Texas
    Posts
    2,386

    Default

    The Nance or Columbus drill is used for a firefighter that falls through a floor or roof top. A charged hoseline is pressed down through the hole. Now the hose is looped or bent in the middle as it goes down. The downed firefighter grabs on and sits on it like a swing and the hose is then pulled out from both ends and the firefighter comes up. Now if the firefighter is unable to sit on it for example he is uncon. then it's looped around him and secured by another firefighter that goes down in the hole.

    A quick google search found this fire dept's training pics on the drill. http://www.savagevfc.org/HEADLINES/S...I=051404064515

    Of course they are using rope instead of a charged hoseline.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
    IACOJ Attack

    Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Dave1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gator Country
    Posts
    4,157

    Default

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    I notice two things:

    on pictures one and five, there are people on the roof without air pakcs.

    on picture five, there is a hoseline on the roof. Last I checked, you weren't supposed to spray water where a fire was venting from.

    You cant put water in a vent hole?


    We've always taken a hose to the roof. I was told when I first started that its in case a FF falls through the hole. You can use it to keep fire off of them untill rescue gets to them. Or, if they didnt fall that far and can handle the hose (ie still consious), pass it down to them.

    Not sure how well all that would work as we've never had to try it
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
    RUSH-Tom Sawyer

    Success is when skill meets opportunity
    Failure is when fantasy meets reality

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber
    SkipJack270's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Possibly stupid question: If you feed the hose through the hole, how do you then attach yourself to the hose? (Obviously, being awake/alert is a big help here, I would imagaine. Though, to see some struggle with knots, I wonder...)
    Isiah 43: When you walk through the fire,
    you will not be burned;
    the flames will not set you ablaze
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    9-11-01. We Will Never Forget You.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    I know I'm going to catch hell for this, but let's be frank....how many of you can honestly say that you've never, never, ever got a little too close to the fire without the proper PPE? Put yourself in a position where you realized later, Man, I probably shouldn't have been up there? I can guarantee you that ALL of us (if you've been fighting fire for any length of time at all) have been in situations that, to the Monday morning quarterback, probably looked as "unacceptable" as these. We were just fortunate that there were no cameras around.

    Does that make it right or acceptable? No. Should this department have been a bit more selective about what pics to post on Firehouse.com? Yep. Can we use these kinds of pics as a learning tool without ripping on the department too badly? Sure, why not?

    See anything wrong ?!!? Looks like someone needs to go back to FF1 and relearn proper PPE
    I'm sure they know proper PPE....Who here has never been guilty of a lapse in judgement? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, I say....

    You may now commence kicking me unmercifully....
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream and I hope you don't find this too crazy is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    we dont send a line to the roof as normal procedure. I did see one pic the FF getting or potentially getting a face full of smoke. I am not sure why they dont have on SCBA as that IS normal procedure......and Dwayne........if that happened here, it would only occur once.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    jerrygarcia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    KC
    Posts
    630

    Default

    It looks like a tactical issue. Attic/2nd floor fire with it venting itself, what's your call?

    A few truckmen with hooks and a couple of interior attack lines and this thing is out in no time without the introduction of a 2 1/2" from the outside.

    I'm not ignoring the PPE issue, I'm with dmleblanc on 'You've done it too'.

    A monday morning q'back is an easy call.

    Take a line to the roof at one of our fires is a sure way to get your ***** kicked. If you've ever been inside when a line is opened from the outside, you'd start knocking heads too.



    Last edited by jerrygarcia; 05-21-2005 at 10:32 AM.

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    Take a line to the roof at one of our fires is a sure way to get your ***** kicked. If you've ever been inside when a line is opened from the outside, you'd start knocking heads too.
    ...and thats NO LIE !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    BFDNJFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Iraq
    Posts
    1,508

    Default

    Take a line to the roof at one of our fires is a sure way to get your ***** kicked. If you've ever been inside when a line is opened from the outside, you'd start knocking heads too.
    lmao dont yah just hate that !! Just a slight burning sensation lol
    ******=================
    ******================
    ******=================
    ******================
    =======================
    =======================
    =======================

    ------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------

  22. #22
    Forum Member
    len1582's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    N.J.
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    Let me see....Line inside fighting fire,OK....Line inside as a backup, or line outside on a roof just "being there",Hmmmm.

    ( oh I'm sure there was a backup line..I'm just throwing a few stones,keeping it going.)
    Last edited by len1582; 05-21-2005 at 12:09 PM.

  23. #23
    Forum Member
    ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,334

    Default

    It would depend on what mode they were operating in. If they went defensive, due to fire growth and spread, interior crews could've been pulled out and exterior streams operated (surround and drown) until knockdown was accomplished. I noticed the fourth photo in the report shows a crew operating a large handline into the upper window, which is showing a lot of fire. I can only suppose that they have pulled back the interior attack crews before operating this stream.

  24. #24
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Our policy is to take a line up, to protect the guys if things get unexpectedly exciting, or for rescue. We certainly wouldn't spray water into the vent hole. As to the comment that we've all gotten too close without PPE, I've NEVER found myself on the roof of a burning building without SCBA. Our department also wouldn't send a team up on that particular roof. The fire in the structure is too extensive, and it seems to be self-vented. Pictures like these give me a knot in the pit of my stomach, just waiting for someone to get hurt.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register