1. #1
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    Default Ben 2 withstands an impact better than a Cairns 1010?

    I know this topic has been discussed before, but I just got back from the Harrisburg Fire expo and I saw an interesting demo at the Morning Pride booth that I thought I would share.

    the salesman had two helmets, a Cairns 1010, and a Ben 2. Then, he drove a Phillips head screw driver straight through the top of the helmet (It didn't have an impact liner). and I mean in one shot.

    then he picked up a Ben 2, and repeatedly stabbed it with the screw driver. a couple scratches, but it didn't penetrate it. you could see numerous scratches on the helmet from previous demos and only one hole (he said from where a guy got lucky).

    now the cairns had many holes in it, while the Ben 2 only had one.

    while he is a salesman, and you can only believe half of what they tell you, I must say it was a very interesting demo.

    just thought I would share with anyone who was interestd.

    btw, I would have liked to have seen how my PC Classic held up to the screw driver attack, but he was only demoing on a 1010.
    Last edited by DrParasite; 05-20-2005 at 10:35 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Default In case I get attacked by a screwdriver

    Thats why I wear a leather helmet.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    In case I get attacked by a screwdriver


    Does that happen often Mike?
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

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    He's a southsider. Anything is possible down there.
    IACOJ, Flatlander Division

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    Thats why I wear a leather helmet.
    exactly
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    Originally posted by PFire23


    Does that happen often Mike?
    Only when it's mixed with cheap vodka..
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    Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT


    Only when it's mixed with cheap vodka..
    Well don't drink the cheap stuff then .....
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Ben 2 withstands an impact better than a Cairns 1010?

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    the salesman had two helmets, a Cairns 1010, and a Ben 2. Then, he drove a Phillips head screw driver straight through the top of the helmet (It didn't have an impact liner). and I mean in one shot.

    then he picked up a Ben 2, and repeatedly stabbed it with the screw driver. a couple scratches, but it didn't penetrate it. you could see numerous scratches on the helmet from previous demos and only one hole (he said from where a guy got lucky).
    This is a cheap demo that is unfair to firefighters or to Morning Pride's competitors (in this case, Cairns). First, the MP helmet is designed to pass NFPA testing without an impact liner. They do this by making the fiberglass shell thicker than helmets with a liner. The design is not inherently better for impact protection...just different. There are advantages for in an impact liner...resistance outside of "test zones" is universal and there is thermal insulation for the brain. But both systems provide similar impact resistance in test zones (areas impacted per NFPA certification tests).

    So, they intentionally removed a part of the protective system in the Cairns helmet, and then, "lo and behold: the helmet fails!" It's the same as taking the liner out of a turnout coat and then comparing how hot you get inside of it. It's apples and oranges.

    There are also a number of things you can do to weaken fiberglass (and Kevlar) without showing damage to the helmet. Heat, believe it or not, is the easiest. MP could have cooked the Cairns helmet for an hour or so at 150 or 200 degrees to help weaken the fiberglass. There are other tricks too...but the key is they took the SHELL, not the whole system. It's dirty marketing and salesmanship.

    The reality is that a thermoplastic helmet (fondly referred to as "tactical Tupperware"...) offers the best impact protection. It also shows when it needs to be replaced, unlike composites (fiberglass and/or Kevlar) or leather. The primary disadvantage is that thermoplastics are generally available as contemporary style, not traditional style, helmets.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

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    Thanks, JB......... I was thinking the same thing about the liner....
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
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    in my department we have the option of the 1010, ben 2 or leather new yorkers, i still prefer the leather but if had to choose i would take the ben 2 over the 1010 . it just seems better built.
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    I knew that something had to be a miss with that .......as certainly NO ONE could, would or should maufacture something that will not allow the equal testing. I know it sounds kooky but there is just no way that htat could happen without alteration of the Carins helmet.
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  12. #12
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    Default Ben II vs Cairns 1010/1044

    I sell both the Ben II and the Cairns 1010/1044. Testing a Cairns 1010/1044 minus the impact cap is far from equal and balanced. Indeed the Ben II is a tough helmet. However part of a helmets job is to accept the shock of a sudden impact of considerable force (ie fail). The helmet should disperse some of that energy so it doesnt travel straight down your spine. Cairns helmets both the 1010/1044 and their leathers are designed to accept the shock of an extreme impact. Even the front holders are designed to crupple with signifigant source of impact. Myself I only wear a leather but if I had to go with a nonleather helmet (God Forbid!) It would be the Cairns.

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    The "salesman's" speil was pure BS. It would be like taking half the sparkplugs out of one vehicle and then berating it's performance against it's competitors.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Default Re: Ben II vs Cairns 1010/1044

    Originally posted by Sgnl50
    However part of a helmets job is to accept the shock of a sudden impact of considerable force (ie fail). The helmet should disperse some of that energy so it doesnt travel straight down your spine. Cairns helmets both the 1010/1044 and their leathers are designed to accept the shock of an extreme impact.
    This is a true statement, but it is not limited to Cairns products. ALL fire helmets that comply with NFPA standards must disperse energy through the helmet and not through the spinal column. The helmets are tested hot and cold to verify that the firefighter is protected in extreme conditions. There is a maximum amount of vertical force that can be transferred to a headform after an impact.

    The strapping system does most of this "energy dispersal" work; the shell does some as well. ANY helmet should be replaced after a significant impact to ensure it will protect the wearer should there be another impact.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

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    Thanks again for the clarification!!!


    Sgnl50....... Do you have the weights of the 1010, 1044 and the 880 traditional??????? Haven't been able to find them online......
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
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    Default Re: In case I get attacked by a screwdriver

    Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    In case I get attacked by a screwdriver
    Don't you mean in case a dumb Truckie drops a screw driver from the roof?
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