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  1. #1
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    Default NOAA weather to be off limits to the public

    congressman wants to limit publics access to noaa weather information

    did any one see the news thurs. some congressman wants to limit the public access to the noaa weather information that we pay for with our taxes.

    the private weather broadcaters want us to pay them for weather information that they will get from were:NOAA most likely for free.
    i don't like to pay for the same thing twice

    what is you're opinion about this, and additional info anyone?


  2. #2
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    got a link to the story ?
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  3. #3
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Yeah, thats a good idea. What is this guy thinking?
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  7. #7
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    thanks Noz............
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber ShaversFork's Avatar
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    Mr. SANTORUM introduced the bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. He then later picked up his checks from the Weather Ch., Intellicast and Weather.com.
    We should be glad that he doesn't "support" the Fire Service or the NFA. I bet he supports BRAC-Base Realignment and Closings.
    I'm guessing that he figures on average that there will be 10 hurricanes in the Atlantic and a Tsunami or two on the West Coast. Perhaps a Tornado or twenty in the Mid West.
    We can still rely on Boise Fire to get our fire weather.

    A little research in to the Senator illuminated the reasoning behind his bill:

    In his most widely quoted (and excoriated) remark, Santorum says, "If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything."

    Clearly, Sen. Santorum is making a classic slippery-slope argument here — a fact that has been completely lost amidst the claims that he has "equated" homosexuality with, say, incest. In his statement, Santorum gives a number examples, all different, yet all cases in which he claims that the government has some legitimate interest in regulating sexuality. Sen. Santorum is obviously concerned that, if the Supreme Court rules that the state has no right to regulate sexuality in the case of sodomy, a court might someday deny the state the right to regulate even incest.
    Or perhaps our right to access weather safety alerts!

  9. #9
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    First of all, this whole issue isn't even worth worrying about because it has no chance of passing to begin with. It is going to die a lonely death along with hundreds of other stupid worthless bills. By the way, the moron who started this (Rick Santorum) out of PA happens to be the same place that "AccuWeather" is based. AccuWeather is a huge commericalized weather service which wants more money and less free stuff for us little people.

    Secondly, the bill is not to cut off all public data from NOAA. That is an exagerated hyped up interpretation. The weather radio isn't going anywhere. The typical forcast stuff isn't going anywhere. It simply means they can not provide specialized services for free that other private companies charge for.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  10. #10
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    By the way, the moron who started this (Rick Santorum) out of PA happens to be the same place that "AccuWeather" is based.
    Not only that, but the founder and CEO of "AccuWeather" (Joel Myers) has also donated several thousand dollars to Santorum over the last few years.
    The typical forcast stuff isn't going anywhere. It simply means they can not provide specialized services for free that other private companies charge for.
    This bill is so generally worded, it could be taken any way one wants to take it. It is nothing more than an attempt by a right-wing nut to use a dedicated, successful government-based public service as a means to make money for a few people. Nobody can argue with the success and usefulness of the NWS/NOAA. The attempt by these people to take the info provided by these dedicated professionals and tart it up to make a buck is disgusting. One of their main goals is to shut down the highly informative website operated by NWS/NOAA, and force people to pay for the same info they receive for free from NWS/NOAA. It's a sham from top to bottom.

  11. #11
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Man, What A Doofus..................

    Scary as it may sound, I'm with Noz. This is Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. I am writing the two Senators from Maryland, asking for their support in defeating this bill. Thanks Noz, Your bringing this to light just might be enough to kill it.
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  12. #12
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    I would agree with others here who believe that such a poorly written bill will die in committee, which is where it belongs.

    TF

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    thanks for the replys and link information.

    pick you're battles to fight and this seems like a good proper fight for the little people, who work for a living.

    we are expected to be prepared and equiped to handle anything and everything, and clowns like this are working to tie are hands.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    What the hell, is he going to classify the weather info top secret???

    Because thats the only taxpayer bought info that is not for general consumption.

    Everything else bought with taxpayer dollars is supposed to be public domain.

    I am goin to forward this to my Weather Service friends and see what they have to say...they are likly to be appauled.

    I would classify this as criminal and at the very least an excellent reson to run this dumb SOB out of any and all leadership roles in our goverment.
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    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  15. #15
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    First of all, this whole issue isn't even worth worrying about because it has no chance of passing to begin with.
    Yeah, sure. Many say this, blathering on about the "free market" and the "free reign" capitalism. It's easy to sit and rant about these concepts, until it's YOUR job, or a government service that directly affects you, that's eliminated. How many threads/posts have materialized every time Rural/Metro (or a similar company) comes knocking? Face it; there are some things that most Americans do NOT want privatized, including things like the NWS/NOAA, public safety, and the military. It's easy for some of the guys here to wail about the waste of taxpayer dollars then, three threads later, whine about pay and position cuts and corporate takeovers that affect THEIR particular government position. To my knowledge, the NWS/NOAA offers a tremendous return for the few dollars per citizen, per year, that is invested in them. There are many legit areas of government spending that need to be curtailed immediately, but the National Weather Service is NOT one of them. These guys are in it for the love and dedication to their service, not the money...just like the majority of professional firefighters from coast to coast.

  16. #16
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Santorum's bill would also have a dramatic effect on general aviation. Pilots of everything from small Cessna's to 747's rely on the NOAA weather forecasts while setting up flight plans. The bill would endanger the safety of the public both in the air and on the ground, not to mention public safety employees when they would have to respond to an incident.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    As a taxpaying citizen there are a few things I would rather a non-profit organization (such as the gov't) handling than a private company. The list includes but isn't limited to protection of property and life which includes police, fire, ems, military, ect. I also don't want to trust my food to private companies, even though a private company may process my beef, grow my veggies, milk the cows...they are all regulated by the government. Also the weather is one thing I don't want to have trusted entirely to private companies. I would prefer to get my info "straight from the horses" mouth in that the National Weather Service gives me the information. Although I would compromise on the idea of the National Weather Service being in a "varification" role in that private weather forcasters get a rating on there "correctness" in forcasting events. I just hope that we can still get our info from the national weather service on daily forcast info and severe weather info...because we have the "weather radio" channels built into our radio, I would rather listen to my radio on scene than have to set up my tv or internet connection on scene to get the weather (extremely important on stuff like grass fires, floods, and hazmat situations).

  18. #18
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    From the AOPA website...
    AOPA President Phil Boyer appeared on ABC World News Tonight with Peter Jennings Thursday in a story about proposed legislation that would restrict public access to the National Weather Service (NWS). Boyer presented general aviation's opposition and explained that obtaining weather data is a critical part of preflight planning for pilots.

    "Forty percent of all fatalities are caused by weather-related factors," Boyer said.

    The proposed bill, introduced by Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.), would prohibit the NWS from offering any "product or service that is or could be provided by the private sector."

    On the newscast, Boyer demonstrated how he uses a computer to access weather data as a routine and necessary part of preflight planning. Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) emphasized the need for public access to the NWS, particularly in Florida, which was ravaged by hurricanes last year. Santorum was also interviewed in the story.

    This is not the first time NWS products have been threatened, and AOPA has successfully protected access to it in the past.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  19. #19
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ShaversFork
    Mr. SANTORUM introduced the bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. He then later picked up his checks from the Weather Ch., Intellicast and Weather.com.
    We should be glad that he doesn't "support" the Fire Service or the NFA. I bet he supports BRAC-Base Realignment and Closings.
    I'm guessing that he figures on average that there will be 10 hurricanes in the Atlantic and a Tsunami or two on the West Coast. Perhaps a Tornado or twenty in the Mid West.
    We can still rely on Boise Fire to get our fire weather.

    A little research in to the Senator illuminated the reasoning behind his bill:

    In his most widely quoted (and excoriated) remark, Santorum says, "If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything."

    Clearly, Sen. Santorum is making a classic slippery-slope argument here — a fact that has been completely lost amidst the claims that he has "equated" homosexuality with, say, incest. In his statement, Santorum gives a number examples, all different, yet all cases in which he claims that the government has some legitimate interest in regulating sexuality. Sen. Santorum is obviously concerned that, if the Supreme Court rules that the state has no right to regulate sexuality in the case of sodomy, a court might someday deny the state the right to regulate even incest.
    Or perhaps our right to access weather safety alerts!
    Why the heck would anyone not be in favor of BRAC unless their particular district was losing jobs. Anyone that is in favor of a storng military and saving tax payers money through effiency and the elimination of waste should favor BRAC, even in fact if it effects your local economy. And more important to this conversation, what does BRAC or social/moral issues have to do with the NOAA's role creaping into what has become a privatized industry? You are confusing social political idiology with economic idiology, the two are very seperate with cross-overs in both directions and does nothing but distract the issue when trying to convince others that NOAA weather information and data should be kept in the public realm.

    Originally posted by Conster74
    The three ugliest words you can ever say to someone were ones often spoken to me by my (now ex) husband over the course of our ill fated marriage:

    Not "I hate you" or "go **** yourself" or even "FFFF off B****" but "Justify your existence."
    I believe, by becoming a firefighter and doing my absolute best, I have done just that, while he's playing at being a "Doctor of Divinity" and floundering badly in life's path. Sucks to be him.

    Sounds like the lawmakers are trying to "justify their existence" and failing just as miserably. Some of these idiotic laws, such as the ones requiring the collection of tax on out of state internet purchases, pass. Others fail miserably.
    It seems to me we need to rebuild this entire system from the ground up. Get rid of all the incumbents, period. Strip the job of anything other than a few modest health benefits and an ADEQUATE (not cushy) retirement plan. Better yet pay Senators and Congressman only about $20,000 a year and make it REALLY suck. Vote people in there who have a good solid brain (and not one whose intellect has been corrupted by absolute power) and make accepting lobbyist bribes a crime punishable by death.... political economic death that is.
    Same with the Supreme Court and the Presidency. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. They should not hold the kind of power they apparently do now.
    Is it possible to type anymore clichés without touching on the subject at hand?


    This will never get out of committee as written. International flight rules require the FAA to provide this information to pilots and others in the aviation world. This is a private sector versus public sector economic question that should be debated, what role should the government have when the private sector can provide the same service, often at an economic and quality advantage? Is this one of those instances? Is it not? Debates like this should be made. Should they always go forward as planed? No. Should they be rejected out right? No. Weather.com and others might be able to provide as good of service and save the tax payers money, or maybe they can't. There is no reason to not discuss it.


    Sen. Santorum and I are on the same side of the aisle on many things, but I will say since our frind from Snowshoe Mt., ShaversFork, brought it up, that some of the things about the guy do scare and disturbe me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  20. #20
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    From the AOPA website..
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AOPA President Phil Boyer appeared on ABC World News Tonight with Peter Jennings Thursday in a story about proposed legislation that would restrict public access to the National Weather Service (NWS). Boyer presented general aviation's opposition and explained that obtaining weather data is a critical part of preflight planning for pilots.

    "Forty percent of all fatalities are caused by weather-related factors," Boyer said.

    The proposed bill, introduced by Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.), would prohibit the NWS from offering any "product or service that is or could be provided by the private sector."

    On the newscast, Boyer demonstrated how he uses a computer to access weather data as a routine and necessary part of preflight planning. Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) emphasized the need for public access to the NWS, particularly in Florida, which was ravaged by hurricanes last year. Santorum was also interviewed in the story.

    This is not the first time NWS products have been threatened, and AOPA has successfully protected access to it in the past.

    Do they have any of Sen. Santorum's justification, from the interview, for the bill in the article?
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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