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This is not a post on what type of lights are the best or anything like that. I have just been reading a number of post where there is discussion of warning lights on POVs and many include what the different states allow FFs to have on their vehicles.
In Ontario volunteers have green lights with no sirens or anything fancy.
I was Just wondering what the different Provinces and Territories in Canada use?
NOTHING!...And Probably arrive at my firehall as quickly and safe as you can with your light
I don't doubt that for 1 min, I try to limit the use of my light as much as possible, the light just draws unwanted attention distracting people from the other vehicles on the road and what they are doing.
I was just curious to see what the other provinces used
Our province (AB) allows the use of greens as "courtesy" lights, but only in the presence of a supporting municipal by-law, which in my municipality does not exist. I suspect it would be helpful when we've got heaps of construction.
In Manitoba, you are considered an emergency vehicle when responding to an emergency and are allowed red or clear flashing lights. these lights however must be hidden from view when operating the vehicle during non emergency times. Sirens are not allowed anytime. We try to encourage the use of some sort of warning light so the general public knows that the person resoponding is a firefighter and not some lunatic driver. It seems to work in our area. We also make it mandatory that the guys install window decals and license plates on their vehicles as identification.
byochim - If you are classified as an emergency vehicle, do you have to insure your vehicle as such?
That is the case in Alberta (for red lights). Im sorry but I have to disagree with the use of lights. As stated in a number of other threads - this just breeds whackers! (not calling you a whacker......are you:D )
Just my thoughts!
That is up to the insurance companies, not the motor vehicle act, but it is usually the case.
Manitoba does have some of the loosest POV laws in Canada, giving Emergency Vehicle status to volunteer POV's.
Manitoba Highway Traffic Act
The MHTA states:
Few provinces are that loose in thier interpretation of an Emergency Vehicle.Quote:
"emergency vehicle" means...
(g) a vehicle not ordinarily used for emergency purposes that is operated by a volunteer, part-time or on-call fire-fighter or emergency medical responder for the purpose of responding to a fire, medical or other emergency; (« véhicule d'urgence »)
BC for instance has some of the strictest regulations for POV's. In fact the province has recently revoked the right of Chief Officers to use lights and sirens on thier POV's. The Fire Chief's association has publicly stated that it will not pursue the issue, as it is not deemed critical to response.
I suspect in this age of liability concerns and litigation, the rest of the provinces are likely to eventually trend this way as well.
In Alberta you are allowed to have green lights for your vehicle, but as 50FFEMT stated you must have the municipality of your jurisdiction pass a bylaw allowing such lights to be used. When they do this they take full responsibility for you if you are in an accident or cause an accident because the Alberta Highway Traffic Act states that you as an emergencey vehicle must use lights and siren at the same time or not at all. Having said that I don't see many of these POV's with sirens on board. We also have had some of these POV's traveling through our town on thier way to thier town and have been pulled over and sited by the local constabulary for improper use of emergency lights. Sometimes they just don't get it eh!
In Nova Scotia, only Chiefs or Deputy Chiefs are legally allowed to have red lights along with sirens. I have them in my POV and only use them on certain calls, certain times of day/night, as well as when I respond direct to the scene. The rest of the time I just use my 4-way flashers the same as all the rest of our membership.
Nothing... Even the Chief after hours has to respond "routine" in his civilian vehicle to the station, obeying all traffic laws, with no warning lights & zero siren.
DCCHAM, in Alberta you can be cited for useing your four-way flashers while you are in motion. They are called hazard lights and may only be used if you are parked on a public roadway to alert traffic that you are not in motion.
Here in NS, even the RCMP have recommended to us to have our members use their 4-way flashers. They've been told too though, that this doesn't give them any right-of-ways or can break any traffic laws though. It just alerts the other drivers that they're comming and "asks" permission for them to pull off to the right. The RCMP will still stop and fine any members caught speeding or running stops.
I'm pretty sure that most departments in NS have their members use four-ways.
Halifax Regional Fire does not allow the use of four-way flashers while responding to emergencies. And as far as I know Halifax Regional Police and RCMP do not recommend this practice. I also believe that if you read the NS Motor Vehicle act it is probably illegal to do so.
Also if you are following the rules of the road you should not need to use your four-ways because you will be going the speed limit just like the other vehicles on the road.
Not only is it not recommended..I think it could be illegal to use it for that purpose..And most cops will pull you over..Firefighter or not..I'll ask...Seeing as my family makes up Half of HRM Police and A few on RCMP..lol...And DCCHam...My dept has it in our By-Laws that we are not to use them...So things must be much different up in Kings County...:p
Only time I ever use them is if the call is between my home and the firehall in which case I'll stop at the scene..Unless its a house fire or something along those lines
We had an RCMP officer in our station for our general monthly meeting three months ago and were told by him that we are to use the 4-ways to "ask" the other drivers to pull to the right to let our members through. So as far as it being illegal, I can't quite see them pulling any of our members over for doing what they were instructed to do. :rolleyes:
This practice of using the 4-ways is used by departments throughout Hants and Kings Counties. This makes it good where many civillian drivers know to pull to the right when they see a POV with firefighter plates and 4-ways on. How else would anyone know that you're responding to an emergency if you have no way of letting the other drivers know?
My point is, that even departments here in NS have ways of doing things that the rest of us find "odd". Same as alot of departments that respond their POV's directly to the scene, while around here, (Valley) only officer's vehicle's are allowed to respond direct, and in our department, this is limited to the chief's only. ;)
I agree with LACAPT. But in my opinion from my experience ans observation I find they create more confusion than just driving to the hall. we have some members use their 4 ways and it just creates chaos and and civillians of the community don't know what that person is trying to do anyway. Thats just my 2 cents.
Hey Mikey - most civillians dont know what to do when they have red lights coming at them either!:D Having 4 ways on is pointless to me - If everybody in the community knows what they are for, whats to stop them from throwing their lights on and driving through town like idiots. #1 puts other drivers at risk and #2 makes your department look bad.
There is something about responding from home or work to the hall that makes people want (not really want - it just happens) to speed to the hall. Oh yes, everyone can say "oh no - I dont speed" but more often they do and dont realize! If people want a timely response from their FD's then they had best look at ways to have full time staff, either through joint municipal plans or on their own. Its all in the word "EMERGENCY". I am responding to someone who needs help - therfore I shall get their as quick as I can! I can just see green lights all coming to an intersection at once (yes I know they are supposed to "obey" the traffic laws). Just a pointless system! Has anybody done a study to see how much time these lights save you?
Another two cents!
I dunno..I find that weird because most places cops will tell you its illegal...I don't think things vary that much between Kings,Hants and Annapolis Countys..lol...But if he says to do it more power to yah...I know people here in Annapolis County do it too...But if they got caught its their *** thats grass...I know my father had people pull over for him one day..He works at 14 Wing Greenwood and we had a barn fire..He used them and as he neared closer to the scene more and more people began pulling over...So yeah it works sometimes..But I've found its just easier to go with the flow and get there when yah do..Because like you said they told you you can't break the speed limits or traffic laws so essentially its not doing a whole lot for you in the long run...Quote:
Originally posted by DCCHam
We had an RCMP officer in our station for our general monthly meeting three months ago and were told by him that we are to use the 4-ways to "ask" the other drivers to pull to the right to let our members through. So as far as it being illegal, I can't quite see them pulling any of our members over for doing what they were instructed to do. :rolleyes:
This practice of using the 4-ways is used by departments throughout Hants and Kings Counties. This makes it good where many civillian drivers know to pull to the right when they see a POV with firefighter plates and 4-ways on. How else would anyone know that you're responding to an emergency if you have no way of letting the other drivers know?
My point is, that even departments here in NS have ways of doing things that the rest of us find "odd". Same as alot of departments that respond their POV's directly to the scene, while around here, (Valley) only officer's vehicle's are allowed to respond direct, and in our department, this is limited to the chief's only. ;)
As for response to scene we're generally the same way unless its a medical and your an MFR and the scene is between your residence and the firehall..Or its an MVA and your route is blocked....
Thanks for all the responses!
Just to add in my 2 cents, I personally like the use of a warning light, I am not a "whacker" all I carry in my POV is one simple tiny dash light. Myself I feel the lights warn people in the area that there is an emergency occurring, it alerts the citizens that an emergency vehicle will be responding to a scene. And there is always that one vehicle that is doing 60 in an 80 (kms that is) the light often gets these people out of the way while still allowing the FF to responde to the scene or hall safely and responsiblely.
I am pretty sure I have read some places that FFs in Ontario are only allowed to have one green intermittent flashing light per fire fighter.
I am going throw another 2 cents into the fray here. If I was the municiple manager of any town, city, hamlet, whatever, there is no way in Gods green earth that I would enact a bylaw that would allow firefighters to respond to a call with any colored light on a POV. That all encompassing word "litigation" makes my hinney pucker. You can bet your your next pay check that if you got into an accident and killed someone while in the act of responding to an emergency with your cute little green dashlight, with the sanction of a municiple bylaw that says its ok, that everybody including the public library janitor is going to be named in a lawsuite that will bankrupt you town. I am not going to be so naive as to think that the members of our dept. don't break the speed laws while responding to calls, but when they are exposed, they are dealt with, sometimes very severely.
Those nice little greenies for the most part are IMHO just going to get you into trouble. We have even gone so far as to impliment an SOP that allows us to down grade first out unit responses to 10-11 (no lights no siren) for those calls that you know are BS, and the second out unit in 95% of the time to all calls is 10-11. Stats proove that you only gain 15-30 seconds per call by going lit up as apposed to running silent. And you run a much safer game doing it quietly.