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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber N2DFire's Avatar
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    Default Haz-Mat Cleanup Chlorine & Bicarb

    Chemical Spill Cleaned Up
    Angela Hatcher
    WSLS NewsChannel 10
    Wednesday, May 25, 2005


    Haz-Mat crews worked into the night to clean up a chemical reaction.

    Crews responded to Willow River apartments in Salem around 2pm Wednesday.

    Authorities believe kids broke into the pool house and mixed chlorine and sodium bicarbonate, or baking soda.

    The chemicals were contained around six last night, but crews stayed until eleven waiting for the chemical reaction to end.

    This story can be found at: http://www.wsls.com/servlet/Satellit...news!localnews


    See the dangers of teaching High School Chemistry ?? I think we should ban chemestry from the schools now - it's for the children !!
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor


  2. #2
    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
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    Default

    Y'know, the first thing I thought when I saw the title, was high-school chemistry.

    Kind of funny that you joke at the bottom, in the passed month there have been two chemistry related accidents at the local highschool.

    Teacher released acid onto one girls hand.

    Seperate teacher corked a vial, causing said vial to explode, leaving a close friend of mine with quarter-sized 1st and 2nd degree burns all over her chest, arms, and neck.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Haz-Mat Cleanup Chlorine & Bicarb

    Originally posted by N2DFire
    Chemical Spill Cleaned Up
    Angela Hatcher
    WSLS NewsChannel 10
    Wednesday, May 25, 2005


    Haz-Mat crews worked into the night to clean up a chemical reaction.

    Crews responded to Willow River apartments in Salem around 2pm Wednesday.

    Authorities believe kids broke into the pool house and mixed chlorine and sodium bicarbonate, or baking soda.

    The chemicals were contained around six last night, but crews stayed until eleven waiting for the chemical reaction to end.

    This story can be found at: http://www.wsls.com/servlet/Satellit...news!localnews


    See the dangers of teaching High School Chemistry ?? I think we should ban chemestry from the schools now - it's for the children !!
    Maybe this is a good reason why the cops should be in charge.

    THIS IS A CRIME!

    And you joke about it.

    Did anyone check the hospitals to see if any kids were injured?

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber latigo's Avatar
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    Default Yes, George, we know...

    Cops can do everything. Cops are GODS. Cops are smarter, better looking, and in all ways superior to all other humans. We are all just cop wannabes. Thank you almighty one for bringing yourself down to the lowly masses and educating us on just how wonderful cops are.

    Thank GOD that the cops around here don't act like that. We have a good relationship, work together, and don't play one-upmanship with each other all the time.
    "Illigitimi Non Carborundum"

    "The views expressed by me are solely my own, and in no way reflect the views of any organization which I belong to."

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Yes, George, we know...

    Originally posted by latigo
    Cops can do everything. Cops are GODS. Cops are smarter, better looking, and in all ways superior to all other humans. We are all just cop wannabes. Thank you almighty one for bringing yourself down to the lowly masses and educating us on just how wonderful cops are.

    Thank GOD that the cops around here don't act like that. We have a good relationship, work together, and don't play one-upmanship with each other all the time.
    A. You do not have the slightest clue of what I was talking about.
    B. Which part of my post was wrong?
    C. I NEVER said anything like what you said in your first pp, ever.

  6. #6
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Yes, George, we know...

    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


    A. You do not have the slightest clue of what I was talking about.
    B. Which part of my post was wrong?
    C. I NEVER said anything like what you said in your first pp, ever.
    A. I have no clue what you are talking about either, except for your usual banter about how cops are so much better than firefighters.
    B. You entire post was wrong. There is no reason for the cops to be in charge, except that it would make people like you feel better about themselves in their own little minds. You call the fire department, then they mitigate the situation. after that is done, they can turn the scene over to the detectives, if they believe it was suspicious.

    let the firemen do their jobs and protect life and property, once the threat has been mitigated, then you can go after the cause.

    geez, some old farts will never get it. and sadly, they will probably get someone killed because of it.

    and just think, they should be glad they didn't mix bleach and amonia
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber N2DFire's Avatar
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    Default

    Dear George,
    I apologize if my attempt at a little levity struck a nerve with you. I somehow forgot that humor is surgically removed from our life the instant we take this job. I will do my best to remember that laughter and mirth have no place in Emergency Services in the future.

    Now to answer you question, I have no idea if anyone checked any hospital. All the information I have available to me is that which I have already posted.

    Now, for a quick lesson on News-Speak for this area.
    Typically when they say "Authorities" they are indeed referring to some type of Law Enforcement be it local, state or federal.
    If referring to the Fire or EMS agencies, we are typically called "Officials" or "Fire Officials" and not authorities.

    I do not even presume to know the methods and actions of the AHJ here, however I am quite sure it is being given the attention it deserves and they are following normal investigative procedures (which possibly explains why no follow up news is yet available. As I am quite sure you know the less the general public knows about a crime, the easier it is to identify authentic leads and suspects).
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

  8. #8
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    Default

    So, essentially, you don't know anything other than a ten sentence report on the news, but you chose to make a joke about it, although it could have been a potentially serious crime scene. I was commenting on YOUR attitude, not the people who handled the job.

    Secondly, thanks for the "newspeak" lesson, but I already knew that.

    Thirdly, I think if you read my posts, I do a ton of joking around...when it is appropriate. Children releasing hazardous chemicals into the environment, IMHO, is not an appropriate place for jokes.

  9. #9
    Forum Member fftrainer's Avatar
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    Default

    Cops in charge... maybe of the scene as a whole but not any of the operation.

    At the bare minimum, they need to be notified just based on the sheer fact this is an B&E, trespass, etc if nothing else.

    My opinion, fd and/or hazmat mitigates and turns the scene over to PD for control and invest.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Originally posted by FFTrainer
    Cops in charge... maybe of the scene as a whole but not any of the operation.

    At the bare minimum, they need to be notified just based on the sheer fact this is an B&E, trespass, etc if nothing else.

    My opinion, fd and/or hazmat mitigates and turns the scene over to PD for control and invest.
    The whole comment was in reference to the NYPD/FDNY debacle. The PD argument about evidence preservation was the point.

    It is way more than a trespass in NJ. In NJ, it is a second degree Causing or Risking Widespread Injury or Damage. It carries a presumption of incarceration.

    That is precisely why I posted. Most fire service people do not get the seriousness of the event.

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    Default Curious

    I think this says we need more chemistry taught in the schools, my chosen profession is a science teacher. There are many more interesting reactions that chorine and baking soda (I am still trying to figure out what they were trying to accomplish). I tried this reaction at school in the fume hood and got no result. Were they using chlorine gas or chlorine tablets? I couldn't tell from the article.

  12. #12
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Curious

    Originally posted by leoestill
    I think this says we need more chemistry taught in the schools, my chosen profession is a science teacher. There are many more interesting reactions that chorine and baking soda (I am still trying to figure out what they were trying to accomplish). I tried this reaction at school in the fume hood and got no result. Were they using chlorine gas or chlorine tablets? I couldn't tell from the article.
    Doesn't Baking Soda and Vinegar produce some kind of foamy substance????? I remember doing something like that when I was a kid..... Maybe they were trying to do that.....
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
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  13. #13
    Forum Member fftrainer's Avatar
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    Default

    It is way more than a trespass in NJ. In NJ, it is a second degree Causing or Risking Widespread Injury or Damage. It carries a presumption of incarceration.
    See that George, we do keep you around for a reason. I did not know the severity and that would be why I am in turnout gear and not PD Blue and exactly why if I were IC of that incident, PD would be notified immediately(heck their notified when we are anyway)and as soon as it was no further risk, they can have it!

    Again, we CAN work together, it IS possible perhaps if some places spent half as much time trying to work together as they do beating their chests doing their best Daffy Duck impression of "It's mine, all mine" we would maybe be successful. If nothing else we would know we tried it!

  14. #14
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
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    Default

    Assuming the chlorine was pool chlorine (sodium hypochlorite) since it was found in the "pool house":

    I was wondering what the point would be to mix chlorine and baking soda as well. I figured that was the reason this was posted...

    They're both bases/alkaline... I've never heard of dangerous off-gassing or precipitates or solutions resulting from such a mixture.
    Last edited by Resq14; 05-31-2005 at 01:47 PM.
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    Exclamation TO GEORGE

    George,

    I not only am a Volunteer Firefighter and the Asst. Chief of our department I am a civilian employee of a Law Enforcement Agency. I understand SOME of your views on Law Enforcement's need for scene preservation for crime scene analysis. However instead of the Police being in-charge of anything that might be a crime scene one day have you ever considered taking the time to go and sit down with the stations and explain scene preservation and evidence preservation to the responders? I have seen and heard both sides on this topic too many times!!! However after hearing one detective go on about the EMS/Fire people destroying a crime scene I asked if they had ever trained together and/or did a talk about why and how the LEO side works. Low and behold nobody talked to anyone (big surprise) so I asked him to come to our department and do a training night and an open question and answer type discussion. Well I can honestly say this detective did his homework and came exceptionally prepared and cleared up an enormous amount of confusion and resentment between the two sides of Emergency Services and now we understand while the LEO's are so anal about scenes and they understand what we have to get done and why we have to do certain things certain ways and vice versa. I think if we took the time to sit down and look at the WHOLE picture we can learn we are all out for the same results and can work together to accomplish more in less time.

    Just My Humble Opinion.....

    This posting is my opinion and mine alone. This in no way reflects the opinion or stance of any agency I am associated with.

  16. #16
    Forum Member fftrainer's Avatar
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    Default

    Craig -


    In George's defense (oooh I can't believe I'm going to do this!)... I would answer yes. Having listened to him at our county fire academy and speaking with him at fire scenes in our area, you will get an explanation. In some cases, you might be sore after it and you might not get a word in, but you understand it when he's done!

    George -

    I accept PayPal donations....

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    Default

    I guess I should say this was not all pointed towards George and trigger pulled. It was for a number of people out there. I think if the two sides of the debate would sit down together and train with each other then it would be a whole world of difference.

    Sorry George if you thought I was sending it all your way. My rant got carried away.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: TO GEORGE

    Originally posted by craigsheets
    George,

    I not only am a Volunteer Firefighter and the Asst. Chief of our department I am a civilian employee of a Law Enforcement Agency. I understand SOME of your views on Law Enforcement's need for scene preservation for crime scene analysis. However instead of the Police being in-charge of anything that might be a crime scene one day have you ever considered taking the time to go and sit down with the stations and explain scene preservation and evidence preservation to the responders? I have seen and heard both sides on this topic too many times!!! However after hearing one detective go on about the EMS/Fire people destroying a crime scene I asked if they had ever trained together and/or did a talk about why and how the LEO side works. Low and behold nobody talked to anyone (big surprise) so I asked him to come to our department and do a training night and an open question and answer type discussion. Well I can honestly say this detective did his homework and came exceptionally prepared and cleared up an enormous amount of confusion and resentment between the two sides of Emergency Services and now we understand while the LEO's are so anal about scenes and they understand what we have to get done and why we have to do certain things certain ways and vice versa. I think if we took the time to sit down and look at the WHOLE picture we can learn we are all out for the same results and can work together to accomplish more in less time.

    Just My Humble Opinion.....

    This posting is my opinion and mine alone. This in no way reflects the opinion or stance of any agency I am associated with.
    Whoa.

    I just checked my curriculum vitae. If I include all the times that I taught the NFA ADFR class, I have over 50 lectures in fire academies and firehouses on scene preservation topics-fire and violent crime. I have stressed on here before the importance of training fire suppression forces in crime scene preservation. I have put my time and efforts where my mouth is. I have presentations that I have given on fire scene preservation, environmental crime scene preservation, violent crime scene preservation and bomb threat scene preservation.

    Methinks you picked the wrong guy to lecture.

  19. #19
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    Default

    Originally posted by FFTrainer
    Craig -


    In George's defense (oooh I can't believe I'm going to do this!)... I would answer yes. Having listened to him at our county fire academy and speaking with him at fire scenes in our area, you will get an explanation. In some cases, you might be sore after it and you might not get a word in, but you understand it when he's done!

    George -

    I accept PayPal donations....
    My mother always says that you never walk away from a conversation with me wondering what I think.

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