1. #1
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    Post FDNY Response Times

    By ELIZABETH LeSURE
    Associated Press Writer
    NEW YORK (AP) - The fire department commissioner said in a
    letter Thursday that firefighter response times have slowed because union leaders have advised members to stop before going through red lights or stop signs.
    A union president called the commissioner's accusation
    "foolish."
    In a letter to fire union presidents Peter Gorman and Stephen
    Cassidy, Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta said Gorman has
    "repeatedly directed officers to disregard department rules and
    regulations" by advising them to stop before running red lights or
    stop signs on the job.
    The fire department's policy allows fire trucks responding to
    emergencies to go through red lights or stop signs "after slowing
    down as may be necessary for safe operation." It also states that
    the provision "shall not relieve the driver from the duty to drive
    with due regard for the safety of all persons, nor shall this
    protect the driver from the consequences of reckless disregard for
    the safety of others."
    The department took disciplinary action against a firefighter
    and officer after their truck went through a red light and struck a
    civilian vehicle, killing a passenger, in July 2004.
    After that accident, the department reviewed its policy - which
    had prohibited going through red lights but was routinely ignored -
    and changed it to conform to state law.
    Scoppetta cited several examples in which Gorman allegedly told
    union members to stop before going through intersections.
    Cassidy said they were telling members to drive safely and to
    read the policy.
    "It's foolish for the fire commissioner to blame me and Pete
    Gorman for increasing response times when they've instituted a
    specific policy to reduce the number of accidents," Cassidy,
    president of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, said by
    telephone.
    Cassidy said the department has focused on driving more safely,
    citing the use of driving simulators funded by a grant from NASCAR.
    "Do they think they can reduce the number of accidents and ask
    firefighters to drive faster?" he said.
    In Scoppetta's letter, provided to The Associated Press by the
    Uniformed Firefighters Association, the commissioner charged that
    the advice to stop at red lights "is being given, at least in
    part, to bolster certain aspects of the union's agenda, including
    efforts to increase five-firefighter staffing on engines and to
    prevent firehouse closings."
    The majority of the city's engine companies have four
    firefighters, but some have five. The firefighters unions expressed
    disapproval in December because Scoppetta reduced the number of
    companies with five members from 60 to 11.
    Scoppetta said the unions have sought to blame the increased
    response times on the closures of six engine companies two years
    ago.
    He said that the average citywide response time has increased by
    15 seconds in the past two years but that less than a third of a
    second of the increase could be attributed to the closures.
    Cassidy dismissed the accusation that the unions were motivated
    by the firehouse closures.
    "The fire commissioner is looking to blame someone other than
    himself," Cassidy said.
    A message left for Gorman, president of the Uniformed Fire
    Officers Association, on Thursday night was not immediately
    returned.

    (Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
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    Default Ok...let me see if I understand this

    OK...let me see if I understand this. The Commissioner is accusing the Union President of telling Fire Apparatus Operators to Stop at Red Lights and Stop Signs, but when someone is injured or killed as a result of a fire apparatus running a red light, that operator is disciplined? Sounds like double-talk to me. I may be reading between the lines, but I think it would be better to have your guys stopping at these lights/signs...I know how bad it can be in Lincoln, NE...It's probably 10 times worse in NYC.

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    You can't make this up.

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    Unbelievable..... Just goes to show that the man is clueless......
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
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  5. #5
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    Maybe The Loo or FFFRED can tell us what's really going on. I think that everybody knows that if you blow through a red light or stop sign and hit somebody, then we will be blamed for it. Response safety should be a priority. When you reduce accidents by 50% by responding more cautiosly, then something must be going right.

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    I would like somebody from the great state of NY to confirm that is indeed the law. I thought all the states had the "full stop" rule. If they dont they certainly should.
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    The fire department's policy allows fire trucks responding to
    emergencies to go through red lights or stop signs "after slowing
    down as may be necessary for safe operation." It also states that
    the provision "shall not relieve the driver from the duty to drive
    with due regard for the safety of all persons, nor shall this
    protect the driver from the consequences of reckless disregard for
    the safety of others."

    In the nutshell, that's the law in New York State You must be in control of the rig at all times ...the general practice is a rolling stop(5-7 mph ) in intersection or a complete stop until you are ackowledge by traffic. This is what we do upstate in my department
    Last edited by Ltmdepas3280; 05-29-2005 at 01:26 PM.
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    Here are some links:

    http://www.wnbc.com/news/4542531/detail.html

    http://cbsnewyork.com/local/NYC--Red...rces_news_html

    also on the cbsnewyork.com site there is a video near the bottom of the main page regarding this issue.

    It is clear that considering the media other than the Newsday paper hasn't really kept up on this issue for the past year and suddenly this issue was the lead story for every NY television channels news broadcast. (Channels 1,2,4,7,9&11) and is covered on every daily paper the following morning that someone (perhaps a billionaire media mogul who is running for re-election for Mayor) is manipulating the press to try to make this Catch-22 appear to be our fault. When it is really the fault of his administrations failed polices and his bumbling, senial appointed commish Mr. Magoo.

    He doesn't want to go into an election with poor crime stats and rising FD repsonse times. So far he has been able to manipulate the PD stats somewhat by marking down the crimes but there is nothing he can do to hide the FD stats.

    They thought they could do whatever they wanted to do with the FD and it wouldn't affect response times or fatalities...

    Truth...they said that removing personell from apparatus (5 man on Engines) wouldn't jepordize safety...oddly after a number of fatal fires and the tragic events in the Bronx where two firemen died...they permantly replaced the 5 man staffing on 60 Engines.

    They said after a triple fatal fire in Prospect Heights Brooklyn that seconds didn't matter as they all were incernated and the extra man on Engine 280 wouldn't have made a difference....Although the cororners report stated they died from smoke inhalation not burns!

    Truth 30-50 companies during the day are shut for Medicals, training, education day, tactical training...etc. People have died in fires when Ladder 119 and Ladder 153 were out of service for medicals. Jamaica, Queens a decade ago was seeing a large increase in deaths due to fires...Ladder Co. 133 was orgainized and the fatalities dropped signifigantly. So why would shutting companies for a day not signifigantly change the chance of survival of the surounding poulace?

    Prior to June of 2004 the Dept regulations stated that we must come to a full and complete stop before proceeding thru a red light or stop sign. The Chauffuer, officer of E94 and a witness on the street thought the light was green for the fire engine which was reponding to a working fire. As it turns out a car which was full of illegal aliens "timing" lights so that as soon as the light would turn green they would speed through the intersection over the posted speed limit...therefore if they had even heard the warning signals or seen the lights and weren't speeding they couldn't have stopped anyhow. (who knows what they did and didn't see as all of them except the dead one ran off after the accident)

    After the Dept for the first time anyone could remember prefered charged against the chauff and officer and the city's corp council refused (until a recent half azzed attempt) to imdemify them. The union told all members for the safety of the brothers and the security of their families finanical well being that they shouldn't race to boxes they should be extreemly cautious and to stop to make sure every pedestrian and vehilce has given right of way(many of you would be surpirsed at how even pedestrians will even walk in front of a fire engine they have heard and seen for blocks!)

    They also changed the regualtions not to help the FD guys but to remove blame from themselves in court and in the media when they saw the members were actually going to drive safe and stop at lights...in fact many of the union statements came out prior to them changing the rule in the regulations.

    So they tell us you don't have to stop...but if you hit someone...be prepared to be sued, placed in a light duty positiion, get suspended and loose 10-30-50... days pay.

    Many don't know that this Chauffeur and his family have been harrassed by the oppositions council and recived death threats from some people who knew the deceased. Instead of allowing him to only give the opposing lawyers his work address it is required that his personal address be published in court documents. This guy's life is a mess right now only because he was doing what he thought was the right thing.

    Cearly Mr. Magoo needs better glasses because his own safety chiefs at the insistance of the dept have been giving a chauffeur re-education program that instructs the chauffuers to slow down and stop at intersections. These classes are in line with every other training anyone else in this country would recive.

    Fact Accidents are down 50%...but in a city where seconds can mean life and death the civilains want it both ways.

    The Mayor doesn't want the response time to go up as it is these numbers that he has used to reduce staffing (5 men to 4) and Close Engine Companies (a moment of silence for Engnies 36, 209, 212, 204, 278 & 261).

    First people will hold him accountable for increased response times second when and if(god help us) this clown gets re-elected he wants to close more companies and reduce staffing further. If the times don't decrease, using the same criteria that he proclaimed would allow him to close companies in 2003 would cause him to re-orgainize those companies in 2006!

    He is just looking for someone to blame for his adminstrations lack of sensible policies regarding fire safety and somehow thinks that he has kept the fatalities for civilains so low. He is still currently trying to bury that video of those ESU and DEP clowns violating every haz-mat protocol ever written(CFR's, NFPA 472) and endangering at least one unsuspecting civilians life. (this whole issue is actuall part of that effort to re-direct everyones attention from Ray Kellys moronic power grab)

    The fact is the Mayor is the reprentitive of the people and his azz-pupet commish has thru his own actions decalared our families finacial well being will be placed in jeapordy if we make any mistake. To us that means that the civilains are comofortable waiting for our arrival and we won't cut corners and push the enevelope.

    This again should demonstrate that when we tell everyone that guys like Guilani, Bloomberg and Ray Kelly don't care and really don't have a clue about what they are doing....we aren't BS'ing you.

    As George said...you just can't make this sh*t up!

    FTM-PTB

  9. #9
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    Question Anotehr example of a disconect with reality

    If anyone doesn't think the media is in BloomSh*ts pocket or don't have the first clue about what they are talking about....read this diatribe!

    NYDailynews
    Fire unions' road rage

    Imagine being trapped in a burning building or felled by a heart attack. You're desperate, but the Fire Department is on the way. That's the good news. Now imagine that firefighters have decided to pull to a halt at every red light and stop sign on the way, consuming seconds while you are near death.
    No way, you say? New York's Bravest would never be so cavalier about public safety? Well, their union leaders have taken just that stand. They have ordered their members to pause at every controlled intersection, rather than move carefully through without stopping where prudent. Uniformed Firefighters Association President Steven Cassidy and Uniformed Fire Officers Association President Peter Gorman argue that the big rigs should grind to a halt and then lumber forward again to cut collisions with civilian vehicles. Safety first, they say. We think not.

    Once again, the fire unions are waging war with Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta, and this time lives truly are at stake. Scoppetta charges that the labor bosses are trying to drive up response times as a way to force the city to reopen shuttered firehouses. Cassidy and Gorman deny the charge. Whatever their motivation, the result is the same: Fire trucks will respond more slowly to emergencies.

    It might be surprising to learn that FDNY regulations long required rigs to stop at traffic signals on the way to fires - surprising because few New Yorkers have ever seen firefighters honor the rule. But everything changed July 10, when a truck from Engine Co. 94 flew through a Bronx intersection, hit an SUV and killed a passenger.

    The accident, taped by a surveillance camera, pushed Scoppetta to discipline the rig's driver and his superior and to review traffic safety policies. He scrapped the must-stop rule and brought the FDNY into compliance with state law allowing emergency vehicles to proceed through red lights after slowing to be sure the way is clear.


    The union leaders rebelled, urged their members to stop on red and took note of climbing response times. Again, Cassidy and Gorman say they have no desire to see response times rise, as they have for the past eight months. But the facts seem to speak for themselves. When the rules required firefighters to stop, they drove right through and arrived quickly. When the rules permitted firefighters to drive carefully through, they began to stop and arrived less speedily.

    That is wrong, because it endangers both the public and the firefighters who rush into burning buildings in advance of trucks that are following behind. Presumably, those, too, are stopping at all lights right now. Or are they? We doubt they'd be that reckless.
    ==========================


    The only thing they fail to mention is that this commish has penalized Firemen for every little mistake and has cost them anywhere from 10 days to 175 days pay and vacation days in charges. Meanwhile two of my brothers are laying in eternal rest and 4 others are crippled for life because the city took our ropes away and no one is held accountable. (Are you sleeping well at night Von Scumbag?)

    No one wants to have to tell their wife they are going to have to forgo feeding their children as well as theyhave been or won't get enough money for the morgage due to a simple mistake in judgement. We aren't major league Baseball players...while they get fined for lapses in judgement and polticans get to keep their pensions despite coruption charges and have to do without luxuries....we have to do without basic needs and loose our pensions and rights.

    These Upper East Side Aristocrats have no clue about the effects of their decisions and polices and when it comes down to the actual ramifications...we are going to protect the brothers and their families first...end of story.

    If these half-wit poloticians don't like it perhaps they should wise up and not try to negoitate in the media as Mayor Bloomsh*t has often stated instead of attacking us on Radio, TV and print.

    FTM-PTB

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    Here is probably the most even handed article even though it came from the leftist Times...
    --------------------------
    Response Time by Firefighters Suddenly Slows

    By KAREEM FAHIM - NY TIMES
    Published: May 27, 2005

    Fire response times in New York City have risen sharply for eight months, worrying Fire Department officials who say that if the trend continues, responses to fires this year will be the slowest in a decade.

    The average response time to structural fires this year has risen to 4 minutes 35 seconds, an increase of 18 seconds over the same period in 2004, according to city statistics through May 22.

    Fire experts say that even though the department is considered above average nationally in the speed of its response, any substantive increase in time is troubling because fires can grow exponentially during their first minutes.

    The latest numbers have prompted a volley of recriminations between the Fire Department and the fire unions over responsibility. Both sides agree that one reason for the increase is the fatal collision of a fire truck en route to a fire and a sport utility vehicle in which a 26-year-old civilian died on July 10 in the Bronx. But that is where the agreement ends.

    Union officials say that in the aftermath of the accident, the department disciplined the truck's driver for running a red light, thus sending a message to all firefighters to focus more sharply on safe driving.

    Fire officials say the unions have used the episode to tell their members to stop at intersections in hopes of driving up response times and gaining leverage in negotiations with the city over other disputed issues. In a strongly worded letter to the unions yesterday, Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta accused them of using "scare tactics" to persuade drivers to slow down lest they be held legally responsible for accidents.

    "You continue to advise your members to stop at red lights," Mr. Scoppetta wrote, "regardless of whether it is necessary or sensible to do so. This has resulted in an increase in response times well beyond those caused by our successful effort to reduce accidents."

    Capt. Peter L. Gorman, the president of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association, which represents 2,500 fire officers, said the letter was an effort to deflect attention from the city's role in slower responses, including its closing of six engine companies in 2003. The unions have long maintained that the closings would delay responses in those neighborhoods and reduce the number of overall companies available to respond to calls. The city says the allegation has been debunked by its statistical analysis.

    Mr. Gorman acknowledged advising his members to proceed more carefully to fires, but only out of a concern for safety. He said his advice might have contributed to the higher response times "in some ways."

    "We race each other to boxes," Mr. Gorman said. "Our members are so focused on getting to an alarm, so we've been telling them to make sure they get there safely."

    He said it was disingenuous to blame the unions for slower driving when the department has begun installing cameras on fire trucks to monitor how safely they are driven. "Response times have gone up because Big Brother is watching them," he said. Stephen J. Cassidy, president of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, said the city has been hammering away on unsafe driving and is ultimately responsible for the consequences.

    "It seems like they have accomplished what they set out to accomplish," he said. "They should be patting themselves on the back."

    Fire companies are also being delayed, Mr. Cassidy said, because the department has been closing more firehouses each day while companies go for training or medical exams, a practice that expands the coverage area for the others. Fire officials denied that there had been any change in the volume of companies taken out of service for training or other duties.

    The response time issue is the latest in a series of disputes that have pitted the fire unions and their members against the administration of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who is running for re-election. Just weeks ago, firefighters cheered their chief of department, Peter E. Hayden, after he openly questioned the Bloomberg administration's new emergency response plan at a City Hall hearing.

    Experts differ on how long it takes a fire to grow beyond control, but there is a national guideline on optimum response that sets a standard of six minutes or less.

    "The criteria is four minutes travel time," said Gary Tokle, an assistant vice president at the National Fire Protection Association. That standard, written by a technical committee in 2001 and designed to confront fires while they are still small, anticipates a dispatch time, including 911 calls, of one minute, and an additional minute for firefighters to leave their quarters.

    New York City firefighters have long taken pride in their quick response, according to Vincent Dunn, a retired New York chief. Though comparative studies that rank cities by average response time are rare, New York officials believe the department is in the top tier, experts said.

    In 1990, the average response time rose to 4 minutes 50 seconds, but it fell over the next few years. It has been creeping up again since 2002, when the response time was 4 minutes 13 seconds. Even so, there has been little consequence in loss of life. The 82 fire deaths in New York last year were the lowest in 80 years.

    The fire truck involved in last July's accident was responding to a fire in a 16-story Bronx building when it sped through a red light and struck a white Dodge Durango, killing Ronaldy Mendez, 26. Mr. Scoppetta described the driving as "reckless" in his letter. The department brought disciplinary charges against the driver from Engine Company 94 as well as his officer, but the penalties have not been decided yet.

    Five months after that accident, Commissioner Scoppetta handed down what the unions described as a puzzling edict. Rather than tighten driving rules, he eased them, the union said. In place of a department regulation that required trucks to stop at red lights, he adopted state laws that allow emergency responders to roll through them with care. The Fire Department said the change simply formalized a longtime practice: fire trucks rarely stopped at red lights. Now, Mr. Scoppetta charged yesterday, Mr. Gorman has instructed his members to not just slow down, but stop, at lights and stop signs.

    Mr. Gorman said he has instructed his members to follow the stricter, national guidelines that require stops at red lights, stop signs and blind intersections. He said he made the recommendation because the public would be safer, collisions would be reduced and because he has lost confidence that the department will stand behind drivers who get in accidents.

    "There are two ways to reduce response times," said Lt. Michael Wilbur, a Bronx fire officer who trains Fire Department personnel in other states how to drive. "Either you put firehouses in strategic places, or people drive in an unsafe manner. You can't have it both ways."

    Lieutenant Wilbur said he believed drivers in his firehouse, Ladder Company 27, were stopping more frequently at intersections. "As a driver, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. You're a blue-collar working stiff, making $50,000 a year," he said. "If you get sued, you may not know if you have a house in five years."

    Fire officials said firefighters in accidents have always been represented by city lawyers, including the driver in the July accident, who is being sued by the victim's mother.

    FTM-PTB

  11. #11
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    Default from todays news here @ FH.com ......"take this" !

    FIRE UNION SEES RED - STICKS TO STOPLIGHT RULE IN SLAP AT MIKE

    JEN KELLY and JOE McGURK


    A furious fire union head yesterday denied claims he is jeopardizing lives and insisted he'd keep urging firefighters to stop at every red light - but a Bronx fire crew ignored the edict when it raced to a fire to rescue a family of four.

    "We weren't stopping at any red lights - we got there really quick," said a firefighter from Engine 64 in The Bronx, who asked not to be named.

    The crew took just over four minutes - far below the average of five minutes and 15 seconds - to reach the burning Powell Street apartment about 1 a.m. while ignoring the advice from Uniformed Fire Officers Association President Peter Gorman.

    Gorman yesterday launched a vicious counterattack on Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta, saying his "feeble" attack on Thursday was a bid to shift attention from "the dangerous policies of the Bloomberg/Scoppetta administration."

    Gorman agreed response times are too high - but said they began climbing when "the Bloomberg/Scoppetta administration closed six engine companies in poor and working class neighborhoods on May 25, 2003."

    The jump in response times "is a civic disgrace that should be examined for criminal negligence and reckless endangerment of 8.1 million New York residents," Gorman raged.

    Scoppetta wrote to two fire union bosses on Thursday, saying they are risking lives by slowing responses in a bid to get more staff and stop firehouse closings.

    Gorman said yesterday his union would keep telling members to stop at every red light - despite new FDNY regulations allowing fire vehicles to roll through red lights or stop signs after slowing down to make sure it's safe.

    He also said: "[Scoppetta] has been a weak and ineffective fire commissioner for all his three years and five months in the job."

    That inspired another blast back at Gorman from the FDNY - who released a statement headlined: "Personal attacks won't change the facts."

    FDNY figures show the average response time for 2005, as of Thursday, is five minutes and 15 seconds for 186,000 incidents.

    The average response time on Thursday to the day's 1,301 incidents was five minutes and one second.

    Mayor Bloomberg yesterday backed the commissioner and tongue-lashed the unions, saying "a very few people with an agenda [are] trying to slow down and hurt this city."

    "Playing with people's lives for your own purposes is just an outrage," he added.

    Gorman said accidents involving firetrucks were halved in the past year - partly because of his advice to stop at every red light.

    But a ladder truck on its way to a house fire hit a station wagon at Ditmars and East 9th streets in Brooklyn yesterday after going through a red light, police sources said, and the car's driver needed medical treatment.

    Firefighters yesterday were stunned by Scoppetta's attack.

    "How are we going to do our jobs if we don't get to the location in one piece?" said a Manhattan firefighter. "In a perfect world, cars and pedestrians would part like the Red Sea and we'd get there in seconds instead of minutes - but we don't live in a perfect world."

    Additional reporting by Douglas Montero and Philip Messing

    Timeline

    12:59:50 a.m.: Call received

    1:04 a.m.: Firemen on the scene

    1:10 a.m.: Fire declared under control

    There were 12 fire units and 60 firefighters on the scene.

    Yomaris Marquez (far left) and her three kids were saved by a neighbor from a fire that gutted her Bronx apartment (above). (NY Post: Robert Kalfus)

    May 28, 2005
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    As an FDNY LCC, I can assure anyone who may think differently...I get to the Box as quick as I can, provided I do not injure the Brothers on the rig, or the people in the streets. If that means stopping at red lights and response times go up, so be it. We are no good to anyone if we dont get there. I also do not trust the city to go to bat for me if God forbid I cause a major accident. Whos to say where the fine line of driving quickly (faster response times) and driving saftly; 1 person: The Chauffer.PERIOD!
    And for the city to claim that we are playing games with life saftey in NYC,tell that to the families of the men we lost recently who were giving their all to protect lives! And the 1000's of others over the years who have given their lives. For them to question the commitment we feel to the people of this city is outragous!

  13. #13
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    Angry News Flash......................

    It's not just NY,NY, it's everywhere. Several Maryland counties are up in arms over both Response times and Traffic Safety. A main street in my district just had 6 "Speed Humps" put in. Despite my warnings to the community that this would increase response times in that neighborhood. I'm waiting for the first "What took you so long" complaint. I Documented this matter thoroughly, including running this street (at 2 am) at 40 MPH, then again after the Humps were installed. I figured 31 seconds difference, about 5 seconds for each Hump. We're currently attacking this from two directions, One, by seeking a change in the County Transportation Code that will ban "Deviations in the pavement surface" and by seeking a change in Zoning regulations that would prohibit new streets in new developments from being built with these things at the start. At the same time, we're under intense pressure to get on the street faster. We currently must get out within ONE MINUTE, or the next due unit(s) will be started. (Bear in mind that we are predominatly Volunteer, on nights, weekends, and holidays.) But, the politicians want faster responses. I have a gut feeling that we are on the verge of doing something drastic. Stay Tuned.
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    Not trying to hijack but:

    Harve, don't you guys have live-ins at just about every department down there? I mean, with people in station, getting the ball rolling in a minute or so isn't too tough. Granted, a minute exactly might be a little harsh, but two minutes is more than enough to get going in the daytime. Things are different at night, obviously
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    The members of the FDNY are dedicated to the safety of all NYers. They would NEVER tank a run for political gain. I say this without reservation. Our response times have indeed increased and the reasons are numerous.

    Johnny's driving the rigs. (Who failed to retain our senior members?)

    Covering and junior officers, (who failed to retain our veterans?)

    The two above reasons are a problem due to the lack of familiararity of the district and it's addresses. Officers are often reading the best route off of a 3"x5" index card.

    Being admonished or worse for responding down a one-way street the wrong way. (I don't know about any of you, but we have at least 35% of our streets going against our best response route)

    10-15% of our companies being placed out of service every day for training, medicals, preventitive maitenance.

    Reduced manning in engines mandating additional unit responses to structural alarms. These additional units are no longer avail;able for subsequent alarms and other units must fill in from longer distances.

    The list goes on but it never has and never will include firefighters slowing down for monetary or political gain. The administration has made disasterous decisions which have impacted on public safety and now choose to blame the men and women who protect that safety for it's failures. The day I no longer care about my oath is the day I leave the greatest job on the planet.

    The above is my opinion and mine alone. It does not reflect the opinions or objectives of my superiors, subordinates or peers. Foremost it in no way reflects the thinking of the Administrators of The City of New York!

  16. #16
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    Default Re: News Flash......................

    Originally posted by hwoods
    It's not just NY,NY, it's everywhere. Several Maryland counties are up in arms over both Response times and Traffic Safety. A main street in my district just had 6 "Speed Humps" put in. Despite my warnings to the community that this would increase response times in that neighborhood. I'm waiting for the first "What took you so long" complaint. I Documented this matter thoroughly, including running this street (at 2 am) at 40 MPH, then again after the Humps were installed. I figured 31 seconds difference, about 5 seconds for each Hump. We're currently attacking this from two directions, One, by seeking a change in the County Transportation Code that will ban "Deviations in the pavement surface" and by seeking a change in Zoning regulations that would prohibit new streets in new developments from being built with these things at the start. At the same time, we're under intense pressure to get on the street faster. We currently must get out within ONE MINUTE, or the next due unit(s) will be started. (Bear in mind that we are predominatly Volunteer, on nights, weekends, and holidays.) But, the politicians want faster responses. I have a gut feeling that we are on the verge of doing something drastic. Stay Tuned.
    Hwoods,
    Go take a short drive to Arlington and cruise down N Filmore St. They have put cuts in the speed humps the width of the track of the apparatus. You have to stradal the yellow line, but they can be passed at full speed with out jarring you on the way to the scene or the patients upon transport. Just have to make sure that anyone oncoming gets out of the way.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by E229Lt
    The members of the FDNY are dedicated to the safety of all NYers. They would NEVER tank a run for political gain. I say this without reservation. Our response times have indeed increased and the reasons are numerous.

    Johnny's driving the rigs. (Who failed to retain our senior members?)

    Covering and junior officers, (who failed to retain our veterans?)

    The two above reasons are a problem due to the lack of familiararity of the district and it's addresses. Officers are often reading the best route off of a 3"x5" index card.

    Being admonished or worse for responding down a one-way street the wrong way. (I don't know about any of you, but we have at least 35% of our streets going against our best response route)

    10-15% of our companies being placed out of service every day for training, medicals, preventitive maitenance.

    Reduced manning in engines mandating additional unit responses to structural alarms. These additional units are no longer avail;able for subsequent alarms and other units must fill in from longer distances.

    The list goes on but it never has and never will include firefighters slowing down for monetary or political gain. The administration has made disasterous decisions which have impacted on public safety and now choose to blame the men and women who protect that safety for it's failures. The day I no longer care about my oath is the day I leave the greatest job on the planet.

    The above is my opinion and mine alone. It does not reflect the opinions or objectives of my superiors, subordinates or peers. Foremost it in no way reflects the thinking of the Administrators of The City of New York!
    This is the part that these idiots don't get. The firehouse mentality (at least, in my experience, the FDNY mentality), would never tolerate a delay in going to work. It's not even in the mental make up.

    But therein lies the problem, in almost every other area of public service, workers try very, very hard to find ways to do less with more. I watched 4 (that's right, 4) AMTRAK maineteaance guys filling in the cracks on the platform the other day; one guy carried the bucket of cement and poured it, one guy worked it with a trowel, one guy carried an orange cone to put down where they were working and the fourth guy watched. This job had to be costing $250 per hour. But that's the way it is in public service. So it is natural to assume that FD would be the same way.

    Hey FDNY guys. Don't you still have a bunch of celebs hanging around the firehouse? I know you do in midtown. Maybe some of them would run some PR interference for you. This one should be a winner for you.

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    Sounds to me like the City Officials have no understanding of how firefighters think. That is firefighters anywhere in the world from what I have seen (I'm from Australia). I do not know of a single firefighter that would put politics ahead of their community's safety. You might bitch about decisions and fight tooth and nail to get the right or fair decision made but when that pager or bell goes off all that goes out the window and you sole thought is getting to the scene as quick as you can and doing your job. From what I have seen it is normally the other way round the brass and the guys with ***** on their shoulders are normally saying 'slow down a couple of seconds doesn't matter, just get their safely'. They are normally right we tend to get tunnel vision when the tones go off and need to slow up a bit. That is why I find the comments been made by your Mayor very hard to believe!

    Good luck guys I hope it all sorts it's self out soon. It sounds to me like you guys (FDNY in particular) are having a rough time of it at the moment. Keep your heads up and don't forget why you do what you do (I bet it's not to keep a bunch of low life politicians happy!).

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    Anyone who is or has ever been in any union (fire-related or otherwise) knows that labor organizations make easy targets for public officials. They make the policy and expect us to abide by it, even though we're the ones who put our lives (and our asses) on the line every shift. Sometimes the policy makes little or no sense and when the labor union calls them on it, they blame the organization for causing a disturbance. It happens in every city, every county, every state, and in just about every occupation in which labor unions are formed. The only good news for us is that espicially in an organization as large as the IAFF, there are more of us than them.
    IAFF - Fire/EMS

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by ColdFireJT
    Anyone who is or has ever been in any union (fire-related or otherwise) knows that labor organizations make easy targets for public officials. They make the policy and expect us to abide by it, even though we're the ones who put our lives (and our asses) on the line every shift. Sometimes the policy makes little or no sense and when the labor union calls them on it, they blame the organization for causing a disturbance. It happens in every city, every county, every state, and in just about every occupation in which labor unions are formed. The only good news for us is that espicially in an organization as large as the IAFF, there are more of us than them.
    You're not real familiar with alot of labor unions, right? FOr the most part, at least up here, the unions dictate the work rules and the employer is held hostage. (Oh yeah. I am a union member, too).

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    For the most part, at least up here, the unions dictate the work rules and the employer is held hostage.
    Could somebody please give George a shake? He nodded off and started dreaming.

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    snicker snicker
    IACOJ Membership 2002
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    The beatings will continue until the morale improves

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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    .... the unions dictate the work rules and the employer is held hostage.....
    What????
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
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    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by E229Lt


    Could somebody please give George a shake? He nodded off and started dreaming.
    OK. Let's use my favorite example...Broadway shows.

    The musicians union has a work rule, that they will have (I think) 24 musicians employed for every performance of a Broadway show. Doesn't sound real bad, huh? Except it applies even if the show isn't a musical (such as 12 Angry Men or I'm Not Rappaport). It also applies to a show like Blast!, that comes in with the total cast being musicians. It even counts when there are shows that could use recorded music.

    The result is shows where the tickets start at $75.00 for seats where you can't see the entire stage. There is no benefit to anyone except the union members.

    Another example. I was working an investigation with the PANYNJ PD, PATH Journal Square station. We needed a Spanish speaking officer. There were none available in the PATH station. They got a detective to ride the elevator down 6 floors from the PANYNJ offices to the PATH station. As per the work rules in her contract, she got 8 hours of OT pay for an "interfacility transfer". The PANYNJ PD also used to have "mandatory OT". If I was a PA Officer and I felt like working, I could call in, request to work, and they would have to put me to work whether they were short or not. Those are work rules that benefit no one except for the union member and hold the employer hostage.

    Or how about AC, NJ. We ran a conference down there at a casino hotel. To save on the outrageous AV equipment costs, we brought our own, including extension cords. When the union electricians came in and saw that we completed the overly technical task of plugging in extension cords, they complained. The ultimate resolution was that the hotel refused to allow us to use extension cords that were not put down by union electricians. Seems it was a work rule. The work rule benefited no one but the union employee and held the employer hostage.

    Same conference, same casino. We needed the podium moved. Took 3 people. A laborer to move the podium, an electrician to move the microphone and a carpenter to reinstall the organization's banner on the podium. Another work rule. Another work rule that benefited no one but the union employee.

    Do we even need to speak anout the NYC School Custodians?

    I am not asleep and I know what I am talking about.

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    BTW, it may behoove the UFA to do some PR work. I was listening to John Gambling today and there were people calling that actually believed that you guys were pulling up to the red ligts and waiting for the green. A BC from Manhattan called in in the last minute of the show and did a great job of explaining what was going on, but it was lost at the end of the show.

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