Thread: Popping a door.

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    Default Popping a door.

    What is the best way to pop a door? My first instructor said to get a good bite right by the nader bolt and then a second instructor said to start high and work your way down. I was wondering which is the "correct" or more effective way to do it.
    "Let's Roll." Todd Beamer 9/11 first soldier in the war on terror

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands ONE NATION UNDER GOD indivisible,with liberty, and justice for all.

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    depends on the damage to the door. Either way is correct. Just as long as the doors opens, that's all that matters.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
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    Default door

    Yo Ox, are you just opening it or taking it off? Makes a difference dont ya thing, and how much damage is done to it?
    Taking it off with little damage, pop the hinges, then lift the latch or door handle what ever you want to call it. Experiment every situation will produce different methods, there is no one clear way to do anything.
    Just popping it; get a purchase point via haligan, squeezing the door with the spreaders or however and then get the tips as close as you can to the top of the nader/u bolt what ever device it has in it and spread until the door opens, the tips slip out, or the metal starts tearing close your tips and burrow back in there, you may have to go underneath the u-bolt if the metal is torn to bad. Can also spread from the roof always a good option.
    my buckandaquarter
    burn
    Burn<br />LT/EMT/Inst />Central Mat-Su FD<br />Wasilla Alaska

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    we did it both ways, breaking the hinges and taking the door off and just popping the door. For this question lets just say you want to open it. I guess my feeling is that starting at the top took a long time as compared to just going in at the nader bolt like we were taught the first time. I guess it would make sense though if you couldnt get a good point due to damage.
    "Let's Roll." Todd Beamer 9/11 first soldier in the war on terror

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands ONE NATION UNDER GOD indivisible,with liberty, and justice for all.

    I.A.C.O.J. Probie and darn proud of it.

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    There is no "correct" way as you put it. Every incident will be different depending on impact location, damage to vehicle, etc

    Try them both, keep them in the back of your mind for the next call....
    Luke

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    I agree with Lutan. The best way to "pop the door" is to use what purchase points presents itself as the easiest to use at that particular incident. Now, if you get to make your own purchase point, my opinion is that you want to start just above the nader pin and spread out and downward over the bolt. This way, you roll the latch off of the pin, which is usually the reverse motion of how it latched to begin with. That would obviously be the path of least resistance in unlatching the door from the pin.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    A great man once told me "extrication is like Jazz, improvization based upon fundamentals."

    I think about this all the time. You need to know how to do it, but there is a million different ways to do it. You need to be flexable.

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    When you have side impact airbags,(door or seat mounted) the possibility of sensors drastically reduces that "million" ways to pop a door. There are definate "wrong ways" which includes mess'n near the latch pin if the sensors are in the door. Not sure where the sensors are? Create space by starting at the hinges. Read the vehicle, it will tell you volumes.
    "Don't say much so when I do.."

    9/11 This Firefighter will never forget!

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    Hello!

    I don't think that we could and should consider the locations of the sensors in our door opening techniques. In many cases it is not possible to recognize the location of the sensors (in the rocker channel, in the b-post, somewhere in the door), and in most vehicles crushing one of the two side-sensors on each side will not deploy the airbag because the sensor signals are verifyed in the airbag electronic control module. And of course, you're getting slower. I think we should not make a science out of modern extrication because its not practicable for firefighters who do not talk and discuss about extrication more then 2 times a week... 'keep it simple'.

    Maintain a safety distance from undeployed airbags when cutting or spreading and do not damage the airbag module directly (for example when squeezing the door), I think that's enough and its adequate to the low risk of a airbag deployment during extrication.
    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
    http://www.moditech.com

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    Always the man of reason aren't you Jorg? There's always one on every forum How are you?
    Luke

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    Default How to Pop a Door 101

    A little door construction review...

    Beams (horizontal bars) and columns (vertical bars) have their greatest strength along their axis. They are easy to defeat if you attack from a right angle (bend or cut).

    Auto doors have their strengths and weaknesses... you want to use strength to your advantage and attack the weakness. This gets you inside the fastest and with the least amount of work. The strength of a door exists in the following:

    - the latch (Nader Bolt) side
    - the internal bar. Its purpose is to take energy from the frontal collosion and pass it through the door so that it stays intact. If the door deforms, it comes open. If it comes open, the occupant is ejected.
    - the curve in the door body panel, which acts as a beam.
    - any glass that is intact. Glass is strong under compression, very weak under tension.

    The weakness exists on the hinge side (not safety rated).

    Now... we will assume a frontal collision has resulted in the door being compressed and needs to be "popped". You have only hand tools (falt head axe, halligan tool, socket set).

    Remove glass first in all cases.

    Gain access to the top hinge by hitting the body panel in front of the door to deform it (otherwise, you are attacking a beam along its axis). Take the blade of the halligan, place in the opening between the door and bosy panel and rotate up and down to spread the space. Look at the hinge. If it's bolted, use a 12mm or 13mm deep-well socket to remove the bolts. If the hinge is welded, beat the body panel down more and look at hinge attachment to door. If bolted, remove bolts. Repeat for bottom hinge. Push/pull door toward back of car until either it snaps off of latch pin or rotates the B post. Either way, you are in. Time total, 3 minutes.

    If you have a hydraulic spreader, place tips on top of door and spread to the roof rail. Continue to spread until full opening is achieved. This will result in gaps opening next to the latch pin and hinges. Attack the gap next to the latch pin (one attachment point versus two). If you do not deform the door, you are working against its strength (internal and external beams). Latch will roll off of pin and you are in. Total time, 90 seconds.

    Keep in mind these techniques ONLY work on frontal collisions. If you apply any force to a side impact (door bent inward) door, it will go inward toward the victim. these are best removed by taking the bolts out of the hinges (they should be exposed) and pulling the door off.

    I have been teaching these techniques for years. Imagine the looks on student's faces when they realize they can pop a door in under 3 minutes with tools found on a engine or ambulance.
    John E. Burruss, NREMT-P
    Heavy-Technical Rescue Instructor
    Virginia Department of Fire Programs

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