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  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber SteveDude's Avatar
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    Levi,
    Oh Boy, you are gonna regret asking this......here we go:

    LFB is the third biggest Fire Brigade in the World after Tokyo with 18,000 staff and FDNY with 12,000 staff.

    We have 7,000 running out of 112 Full time Stations. 2/3rds of the Stations (those with more than 2000 calls) have Two Pumps (Called Pump Ladder and Pump the difference being one has a 45 ft ladder the other has a 35 ft ladder) The remainder of the Stations have a Pump Ladder only.

    Each Station has a Station Commander (Batt Chief) with 4 Watches (shifts) Red, White, Blue and Green. At a 2 Pump Station they have a Station Officer (Capt) Sub Officer (Lt) a Leading Firefighter and 10 Firefighters...at a one Pump Station they have a Sub Officer a Leading Firefighter and 5 Ff's... on each Watch, making 53 at a 2 appliance Station and 29 at a one pumper (including the Stn Commander)

    Obviously this changes where Stations have other appliances.

    WE don't use aerials like you Guys (Truckies) we use them purely as water towers or for rescue. We used to have 20 aerials but now we are down to 11...

    There are 10 Rescue Companies (Fire Rescue Units) 4 soon to be 8 Command Units and a Major Command unit at HQ. We also have in varying numbers...Hose Layers, Water carriers, BA Major Incident Units, BA lorries (Cylinders, Gas Tights and spare BA) Scientific support units (Hazmat's), Bulk Foam Tenders, Damage Control Units, Hygeine Units, USART Units, Fire Investigation Units...

    From the Goverment in readiness for terrorism we also have Major Pumps, (to pump water in or out over miles..i.e floods or massive loss of water supply) Mass Decon units, Heavy Rescue Vehicles and some more stuff I can't remember.

    The LFB does no Medical response at all, that is handled by London Ambulance Service. WE attend approximately 300,000 calls per year with over 50,000 of those being fires (about 28,000 in structres, the remainder are rubbish, outdoor and so on). According to some report that surfaced during the Fire dispute of 2002/3 the LFB is the busiest FB for fires per Firefighter in the World?

    The busiest Station for actual calls is Soho in Central London with around 9000 the quietest is Biggin Hill on the southern Boundaries with just a few Hundred. The busiest Working Stations handle around 4000 calls with a quarter of them being fires. These are in the inner city Ghetto areas such as Tottenham, Hackney, Dagenham, Brixton and so on....

    The Brigade is run by a Uniformed Commissioner, with a Deputy and Six Assistant Commissioners...all Uniformed Officers (at this time) On the Operational side there are 3 command areas Eastern, Western & Southern, but we are divided up into 6 groups with a Senior Divisional Officer in charge of each group. Each of these is then run, in keeping with the rest of London in Boroughs... there are 33 Boroughs in London and the Police & Fire brigade are managed locally to fit in with the Boroughs...the Borough Commander is a Divisional Officer (Dep Chief) and he will have on average 3-6 Stations in the Borough, all headed by a Station Commander as I mentioned earlier.

    I think that's about it.... Proud to be part of it??? Cut me open and LFB runs out of my veins!!!
    Steve Dude
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    www.fireservice.co.uk

    London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


    'Irony'... It's a British thing.


  2. #22
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    Originally posted by GimliOnFire
    Guys, how 'bout you move on to something useful? And Mike Ward gave an excellent explanation with the keyword being near the end -- the uselessness of these simple statistics.

    If you don't like it, don't read it. He asked a question, we provided an answer.

    How they rank second on the list of busiest engines in the country is through manipulation of their run numbers.

    From the Department of Widen Your Perspective:

    It is *not* manipulation if that is the way they record their data.


    It is manipulation when you compare apples to oranges. It is misleading when a reader is led to believe that they are being compared on the same grounds and an explanation is not made. When a reader views these statistics, they are misled into believing that Kentland Engine Company 33 runs the second most calls of any engine company in the country. In fact, they aren't even the busiest engine in Prince George's County. DCFD Engine 10 does not count the calls that the truck and medic housed in their station. There should either be a standardization of statistics or an explanation of how a company differs in collecting their run statistics.


    There is no national standard on how you measure runs / calls.


    You are correct. However, if one is to legitimately compile statistics, a standardization must be made of precisely what defines each statistic. Otherwise, numbers can be skewed and the entire exercise is unreliable and worthless.

    To my mind, a call = 1 incident.

    To my mind, a run = 1 unit leaves the station.


    What you or I believe constitutes a run is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the statistics are being listed without regard to their accuracy.

    You're a department. Have a minor motor vehicle. Needs 1 Engine, but 3 ambulances.

    It's one call. It's one Engine run, and 3 ambulance runs.

    If you're the Chief of that Department preparing next year's budget request, simply saying it was "one ambulance call" really distorts the nature of the incident. Much better to record this as "3 Ambulance Runs" because that reflects the nature of utilization of the resource(s).


    Why not list both? It is reasonable to list both the number of unique calls for service and unit responses. Both statistics are useful and important in achieving the goals you mention.

    Saying someone is manipulating when:
    1) They're simply accounting different than you


    They are not accounting different from me, my station counts runs with the same method that Kentland does, but again, that is irrelevant. They are accounting runs differently than DC, which is misleading. I'm not saying that either is wrong, only that the comparison is useless because it is oranges and apples.

    2) There are no nationally recognized "rules" how to count these


    True.

    3) The true value in the information isn't to someone taking a crap reading Firehouse in the fire station john, but to the department Administrators preparing their budgets...so the local department should have the discretion how they record their data

    Whether Kentland runs 10,000 calls this year or 10, their budget will still remain less than your mortgage, just like nearly every other station in Prince George's County. The value for Kentland in maximizing this statistic is recruiting, which is vital in an all-volunteer, extremely busy station.

    GIVE IT UP and go find something that is actually useful other than taking a **** on the job.

    Grrrr...
    Hope you feel better.

    Have a great day.

    Eric

  3. #23
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    Kentland 33 is the busiest Engine in the County, but they are far from being the busiest Station in the County and they are not the busiest for working incidents.

    I look more at the Stations than the Apparatus. A Station with an Engine, Ladder, BLS unit and an ALS unit that runs its arse off means more than a Station who:

    A)REFUSES to provide EMS transport service to it's citizens
    B)Runs something on Every EMS call in their area, even when tying up a Fire Suppression unit is not necessary (ie; Mini-Pumper 33 running an injured finger with a BLS unit coming from 33's First Due area) just to make the numbers look good.
    C)Has a membership that is 85-90% White Males from out of State in an area that is 97% Black. (These guys are just there for the action, they could care less about the people. They just wanna go back to Pennsylvania with their Kentland T-shirts)
    D)REFUSES to recognize thier Sub-Station (Company 46) which is fully career staffed 24/7 (More like "Kentland VFD, 75% Volunteer...)

    Don't believe everything you hear. 80% of the incoming funds to Company 33 are from Company 46's area (Company 46 has some of the most Affluent Black Upper Class in the Country living in it;s first due)

    Yeah, they are busy, they got some good guys there that have been there for years and are true Firemen. But to even compare them to DCFD Engine 10 or a company in the FDNY or LAFD is ridiculous.

    Wake up and smell the coffee, there are 46 Firehouses in this county, and most of them are too busy running calls and fires to worry about a website to draw membership from.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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  4. #24
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    Default Just sayin'

    I am guessing you ride in PG also...it's so funny to hear people who have probably never even set foot in the state sit on thewatchdesk.com or here and get a hard on for Kentland. whatever.
    What's really ashame is that people think Kentland is the only place to catch fire in PG. The Southside is plenty busy for most folks. If people want to get experience and make a difference they should join places like District Heights 26 (most working fires for PG county last year), Seat Pleasant 8, Boulevard Heights 17, Silver Hill 29, just to name a few. Any of those should get your rocks off, and they could actually use the members!
    Last edited by 3HookNHose; 06-04-2005 at 02:45 AM.

  5. #25
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TillerMan25 Wake up and smell the coffee, there are 46 Firehouses in this county, and most of them are too busy running calls and fires to worry about a website to draw membership from.
    you know, not for nothing, but after reading what 3HookNHose said about District Heights having the most fires, I was interested in learning more about the department. maybe if I had the free time, even driving the 4 hours from NJ to PG county to ride with a busy FD.

    and you know what I found when I tried to gather more information? NOTHING. no website. no run stats. nothing to mention all the fires they got. nothing saying what apparatus they have, or how many members, or that they even needed members. or even a person to contact if you were interested in joining. only a phone number that I would imagine rang at the station (and I wasn't going to be calling them at 4am).

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Departments need to have a website, they need to have a semi professional looking website, and they need to publicize it. give the public a glimpse of what you do. tell them how to join.

    kentland is 100% volunteer, they list all their members on their site, pictures of their calls, stats of how many runs they do. and people see this, and they want to drive 4 hours just to ride with them. is it entirely accurate? eh, probably not. it a lot of it spin? probably. would you know from the site? absolutely not. all you see if pictures of fire at call they do go, pictures of pin jobs, and them saying how they ran their asses off. now that is a great PR job, and it's why people want to join Kentland, and not some of the other companies in PG.

    btw, thanks Mike for your post, it helped clear a lot up.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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  6. #26
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    Default Dr. Parasite

    District Heights Volunteer Fire Department
    6208 Marlboro Pike, District Heights Maryland 20746
    301-883-7726

    Volunteer Chief Tommy Stommel.

    They have a full contingent of Career Staffing there, but Volunteers ride frequently. Chief Stommel, in my professional opinion, is one of the best Chiefs I have seen. They run a crapload of fires and have a Tiller Truck (Not one of these weak Aerialscopes )

    E261- 1990 Hahn
    E263- 1985 Pirsch
    Truck 26- 1996 Simon/Duplex-RD Murray 100' Tractor Drawn.

    Yes, they do have an ambulance.

    3HookNHose, no, I don't ride in PG. I belong to a department in the county I was born and raised in. People from Pennsylvania come down here to "ride." I was born and raised here, I "belong."
    I belong to the Clinton VFD.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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  7. #27
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default Tillerman

    You mean to tell me you dont have your very own "cubby hole" ? Or even a cool bunk bed? On a slightly different note. I asked Harve, but he was unsure.. Do "live-ins" have to report free rent as income to the I.R.S. ?
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Tillerman

    Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    Do "live-ins" have to report free rent as income to the I.R.S. ?
    A major portion of the county (about half maybe, I'm guessing, don't quote me) does not have a live-in program. I am not aware of any rule that states that the free rent needs to be counted. How would the income be quantified?

    Eric

  9. #29
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    No, I don't have a Cubby-hole at the Firehouse. I am not a live-in anymore. When I did live there I just had a bunk and a locker. When I was a member of Kentland (46) I did have a room to myself. As far as I know, nothing has to be reported to the IRS.

    I do live in the First in area of my company now and I do not think I would live in the station again.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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  10. #30
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    The station I run out of has an ALS engine, a District Chief and a rescue boat. Every 911 call gets an incident #. If the engine runs an "incident" it counts as 1 response for the engine. If the boat runs an "incident", it counts as 1 response for the boat, but the engine does not get counted. We keep four run totals (well the CAD does). 1 total for the station and 1 for each seperate unit. This is how all the departments here do it.

    Like I said, the incident counts as 1 overall #, and 1 report is generated no matter how many units respond. The total # of "incidents" is the same as the station "response" total.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

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  11. #31
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    Default stevedude

    Steve Thanks for the info, That's a hell of a fire department you got there. Thanks again, And have a safe shift!

  12. #32
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Smile Well.......................... ..

    Coupla pages of interesting nothingness. To those who want to debate what and what not, Have at it. That's why we live in America, so we can have, AND SPEAK OUT ON, different opinions. To those who are whining about the subject matter, Reread the sentence that starts with "That's why we live....." This is the only time I'll ever quote someone from "The Watch Desk" but that person's signature line fits here. It reads "If you don't like what people post, don't read it". And that's my advice for today. Moving on, I hadn't posted here yet, because I was waiting to see where things would go. Mike Ward and Tillerman have provided an excellent insight into PG's way of doing things. Eric, you need to learn a bit more about the system. Kentland does NOT include the Tower Ladder's stats with the Engine Company. I know, I'm the Chairman of the Statistical Committee for the Prince Georges County Volunteer Fire/Rescue Association. The gentleman who asked about District Heights - You need to understand that not everyone wants a website. There are a few Companies in PG besides 26 that do not have one, and, to tell the truth, they could care less. Some Want to be in the limelight, others don't. We have one, www.GDVFD18.Com but if we had to drop it, I don't think the world would reverse on it's axis. Anyway, have a nice day, I'm off to other things..... BTW, Tillerman, you see the list of Division Chiefs that came out last week?
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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  13. #33
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    GimliOnFire,

    You have been a member of this forum for less than a month and you are already talking like you own the damn thing. If this topic does not interest you, DO NOT READ IT. Obviously this interests some people, as there have been many informative posts. If you want to start a thread about LODDs or something you consider important, then go ahead, but you do not have control over what gets posted here. And that goes to all you "do a search people." Who cares if a topic was discussed a year ago, new members come and go all the time. No two threads are the same, each add something different. If the webteam has a problem with a particular thread, they will delete it. End of story, and rant off.

  14. #34
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Well.......................... ..

    Originally posted by hwoods
    The gentleman who asked about District Heights - You need to understand that not everyone wants a website. There are a few Companies in PG besides 26 that do not have one, and, to tell the truth, they could care less. Some Want to be in the limelight, others don't. We have one, www.GDVFD18.Com but if we had to drop it, I don't think the world would reverse on it's axis.
    first off, thanks for referring to me as a gentleman. I think that's probably the second time in my life anyone has called me that

    Why does Station 26 not want a website? and for that matter, why would any department not want a website (the costs aside)? are they not looking to recruit members? How do they show the public what they offer? how do the provide contact info for prospective members? how do they expect prospective member who don't live in their first due area to learn about thier department?

    I'm not saying the world would stop if any department decided to stop their website. but it would make the job of their PR guys much harders, as well as close off a way for you to show the public what you do at the cost of minimal man hours.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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  15. #35
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    DrP, if you moved into a new town, would you drive past the firehouse or go looking for a website first? My experience, and that of my new members, was to drive past the firehouse. Some saw the open doors and stopped by. Some saw the sign with a phone number. In the last 20 years of the internet, we haven't had a single person come to us about a website. How do people know what we are doing? That's what we use the newspapers for. Almost everyone reads the local paper.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  16. #36
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bones42
    DrP, if you moved into a new town, would you drive past the firehouse or go looking for a website first? My experience, and that of my new members, was to drive past the firehouse. Some saw the open doors and stopped by. Some saw the sign with a phone number. In the last 20 years of the internet, we haven't had a single person come to us about a website. How do people know what we are doing? That's what we use the newspapers for. Almost everyone reads the local paper.
    I'd check for a website before I even got to the new town to look for the fire house.
    I guess I am proactive like that
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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Well.......................... ..

    Originally posted by hwoods
    Coupla pages of interesting nothingness. To those who want to debate what and what not, Have at it. That's why we live in America, so we can have, AND SPEAK OUT ON, different opinions. To those who are whining about the subject matter, Reread the sentence that starts with "That's why we live....." This is the only time I'll ever quote someone from "The Watch Desk" but that person's signature line fits here. It reads "If you don't like what people post, don't read it". And that's my advice for today. Moving on, I hadn't posted here yet, because I was waiting to see where things would go. Mike Ward and Tillerman have provided an excellent insight into PG's way of doing things. Eric, you need to learn a bit more about the system. Kentland does NOT include the Tower Ladder's stats with the Engine Company. I know, I'm the Chairman of the Statistical Committee for the Prince Georges County Volunteer Fire/Rescue Association. The gentleman who asked about District Heights - You need to understand that not everyone wants a website. There are a few Companies in PG besides 26 that do not have one, and, to tell the truth, they could care less. Some Want to be in the limelight, others don't. We have one, www.GDVFD18.Com but if we had to drop it, I don't think the world would reverse on it's axis. Anyway, have a nice day, I'm off to other things..... BTW, Tillerman, you see the list of Division Chiefs that came out last week?
    I apologize, I was going off of third-party information and the lack of information on their website.

    Eric

  18. #38
    Forum Member SpartanGuy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    I'd check for a website before I even got to the new town to look for the fire house.
    I guess I am proactive like that
    hehehe

    Glad I'm not the only one
    "Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."

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  19. #39
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    BTW, Tillerman, you see the list of Division Chiefs that came out last week?
    No, I have been extremely busy lately and haven't been to the Firehouse. I heard you were on it, CONGRATS!

    Just remember to not take a page from the book of that Chief over on Allentown Road. (Which in short means: I hope you don't show up on a Room and Contents in Accokeek from Davidsonville, just because you can.... )
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Three apparatus responding to ONE call; counts as three separate calls?

    How does that work?

    That would raise our response numbers from like 800 to 2,400.

    Do you get anything different by doing that, or just so that you can write something on a t-shirt to let everyone know that you are the busiest?

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