1. #1
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    Default Michigan Law for Vollys

    I was under the impression Michigan followed that of the few other states that provide for volly FFs protection from loosing a job for responding to a fire prior or during working hours...

    Dose anyone know anything about this, or have any information on where I can find the actual law? (If there is in fact one, it's looking dismal LOL)

    TIA!

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    im curious to know of this as well, what the guidelines are as well if it is still in place.

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    Default Legislative info

    Here is a link where you can search text in Bills and Current Law.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.asp?page=Bills

    I looked and it doesn't look like you have any laws on the books or bills going up concerning this issue. That doesn't mean it's not there. I didn't spend a lot of time on it.

    If you guys are pro right to volunteer I'm with you.

    Keep in mind Collective Bargaining contracts in most states trump all state laws, rules, and regs. You can research this by looking for preemptive clauses in your civil service law and collective bargaining law pertaining to the department in question.

    Passing State laws protecting volunteering is a temporary fix unless preemptive clauses are amended.

    I have an article I wrote on the main forum. Volunteers and the union movement.

    I'm not sure what your take is on all this. You'll either love me or hate me.

    Take care guys.

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    Nail200,

    I don't believe the original question was a union FF trying to volunteer, but rather a volly who is looking for information on whether he is allowed to miss/be late to work because of a run.



    Lamah989,

    I, too, did a search at www.michigan.gov and found nothing.
    Resident Chaplain of the IACOJ

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    Texas just had a law put up that handled that specific issue. Our legislative session is just ending. I'll look it up and give you a link to it. If you don't have laws in place you might be able to shoot it to some of your legislators as a reference.

    You should be able to find volunteer friendly reps up there to put a bill forward in the next session.

    Good luck and thanks Chaplain,

    Nail

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    Nail200, If you could post your law when it goes through that would be great. I did find a rep who introduced a bill to give fire fighters and EMTs a personalized license plate (umm yay?!?) - I would think this rep would be interested in hearing what other states are doing, the more I can put together the better...

    Thanks everyone...

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    I am not sure but....

    Seems like when Flight 255 went down at Detroit Metro, there was a guy from Romulus that was fired or going to be fired for missing work because of being at the crash sight.
    Sorry I don't remember the specifics or the outcome
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    His question isn't about being union or paid.. It's about being a whacker and not going to work on time.

    Pennsylvania has a law, Act 45 (or maybe 82) I believe, that covers this to an extent. But you have to be very careful, they can still fire you. You can't leave work and not expect to get fired; unless you have another arrangement w/ your boss. You can't pull in, and then leave and expect the law to cover you. It's basically something that protects you in case you are late for work because you came upon an accident, or there was a call that for some reason you couldn't leave.

    Otherwise always set priorities; 1 Family; 2 Home; 3 Job; 4 Community/fire/ems etc.

    Are you willing to affect your family or lose your home/farm by losing a paying job for something you may not get paid for?



    Example:

    Law does not apply for:

    You have to go to work at 6am. At 5:59 there is a fire, and you hop back in your car and respond...

    You leave work for a fire/mva/ems, etc.

    Law does apply for:

    You are on your way to work and come upon a vehicle accident; you stop to assist and are late for work.

    You are on an EMS call, that took place more than two hours before you have to work, and are late for work 15mins-1hour)

    You are on a fire call, that took place more than two hours before you have to work, and are late for work 15mins-1hour)

    ----------------------------------------------

    Our department has a form that the chief fills out for any person who is late for work, basically it describes the incident, why the employee was late (blah, blah, blah, your employee was an important part of the crew, etc), gives the incident dispatch times, scene times, and a number that they can call for information.

    Only time I was ever late was b/c we were searching an under-city tunnel for a lost child that was later found to be in her bedroom playing with a video game.

    I don't see any problems, unless you do it all the time, two sides to every story. If your late all the time, I'd fire your ***. Find a job as a firefighter, or a job that doesn't care if you are present or not. Otherwise, Job comes first, especially if your not getting paid to skip work.
    Last edited by blueeighty88; 06-27-2005 at 11:04 AM.

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    Originally posted by blueeighty88
    It's about being a whacker and not going to work on time.
    It has nothing to do with being a "whacker". While the information you provide is helpful, your editorial comments are unnecesary. These types of situations don't just happen to volunteer firefighers - but also to Paid-on-Call and any PT or FT firefighters who have a jobs outside of the fire service.

    The real issue here isn't whether or not there is a law to protect your job, but whether you have taken the time to sit down with your boss to work out a plan for when an emergency may occur. I don't depend on the legislature to determine my work schedule during an emergency, I look to my boss for that guidance.

    While I typically don't respond to incidents during working hours, if there is a need for me to go, my boss and I have procedures in place where I may leave work to respond (or arrive late if it was an early morning incident). I have only left work one time. When I told her of the working incident and asked to go, her response was, "Go! Go! Go!" I have no doubt, however, that if I were to begin to abuse the system we have in place my boss would quickly put an end to it. (Notice that I asked to leave, I didn't tell her that there was an emergency and I was going.)

    You must use your best judgement on this. Leaving work for every medical call is probably not wise. Leaving work for a washdown is probably not wise. Leaving work for a small fire that can be handled by first engine and truck is probably not wise. Leaving work for a 2 alarm fire in an apartment building with entrapments... it's worth mentioning to the boss.

    Having a strong work ethic and displaying integrity while you are on the clock will certainly help in your discussions with your boss.
    Resident Chaplain of the IACOJ

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    blueeighty88, the first sentence in your post is the reason I never post in the main forum, thanks for bringing that in here.

    I never respond from work, I wouldn't even know if there was a call, I have been late for work twice because I was at a fire all night and or there was a call between me and work.

    While I don't foresee a problem with my employment, after reading about this issue and a law being created in another state, I thought I would see if Michigan had the same, when I couldn't find it, I thought would ask. I know some employers in this great state are never understanding under any circumstances, protecting the majority of our fire fighters should be a cause for concern.

    But leave it to the good'ol'boys here @ firehouse.com to drive away the newb's...

    thanks anyways...

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    At my department before I was hired, I had to have my boss read and sign a form from my department giving call frequency and recommended procedure for a call during work hours. This is nice because if forces a dialog between boss and employee witch is better than resorting to use laws. (This is needed in some cases)
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    Lamah989 don't let one(or a few as it may be sometimes) ruin it for you. There is alot of good information here. You just have to learn who to listen to and who to ignore, and it sounds like you are capable of that.
    Stay Safe & Bring 'em Home!
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    [i]Originally posted by Lamah989

    But leave it to the good'ol'boys here @ firehouse.com to drive away the newb's...

    thanks anyways... [/B]
    So you noticed that too? So sad that it has to be like that.
    Anyway, as far as I know, there is no law in Michigan regarding firefighters and their regular jobs. Would the Good Samaritan Act apply if you came across an incident on the way to work? I would think so, but I'm definitely no lawyer. When I was on a volly dept I let my employer know what the deal was and they were very good about letting me go, or be late, if there was an incident. I think most employers would be pretty understanding, but there will be some that show no leeway. If you guys are trying to get a law passed to protect responders' jobs, good luck to you!

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    Exclamation There is a Law

    There is a law on the books in Michigan that protects "on-call" firefighters from being disciplined for being late or absent from work due to an emergency type call. The employee is required to present the employer with a signed excuse from the officer in charge of the scene.

    The law does not allow an employee to leave work after they have started their shift.

    I donít have a copy of the law in front of me but I remember reading it.


    Stay Safe

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    Default Law

    That would be awsome if we could find some hard evidience of this law.
    i've been nailed a few times by my empolyeer because of being late. i just get docked a few points, but man o man, i would love to stick it to em.

    they are aware of my status on the FD, and i've talked to my boss's and such, but i work for a corporate so the points system is nothing they can step around without getting in trouble.

    it just kinda sucks having a transport time of 30 minutes each way. 2 hours comes around pretty fast
    Last edited by WaffleHut; 08-07-2005 at 10:37 AM.

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    You have to be careful about the way these things are written. Ohio's law for instance says that you can't be fired for tardiness, etc due to an emergency call. A strict reading of the law says nothing about some other form of less severe discipline, such as suspension or internal transfer to a less desireable job. Such action may not be in the spirit of the law, but it's certainly within the "letter" of the law.

    Ohio's law
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    Ok I haven't been around for a while so I figured I'd ressurect this one. There is NO Mi law that protects volunteers/ POC from tardiness/ absence while on a fire/EMS run. I work at a job where I work with 57-60 volunteer/ POC ff/EMT's and we had a few abusing it (taking calls 15 min before time to leave etc..) so my boss (an ex-POC/ FF)and our legal dept looked into it to cya and there is nothing
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    Default laws:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamah989
    I was under the impression Michigan followed that of the few other states that provide for volly FFs protection from loosing a job for responding to a fire prior or during working hours...

    Dose anyone know anything about this, or have any information on where I can find the actual law? (If there is in fact one, it's looking dismal LOL)

    TIA!
    it's in the public act 300 of the mvc. if you can't find it call me on my cell at 269-591-0992 ask for Ed

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey2114
    it's in the public act 300 of the mvc. if you can't find it call me on my cell at 269-591-0992 ask for Ed
    There is no such thing as the "Public Act 300 of the MVC". The MCL (Michigan Compiled Laws) PA 300 of 1949 establishes the MVC (motor vehicle code), however there is nothing in the state's mvc that would protect a responder's job if he/she is missing work.

    Here is a link to the act that you reference.
    Last edited by IACOJRev; 11-28-2005 at 08:20 AM.
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