Question from Vollie for IAFF Members

[CHUGIAKFFEMT2]

If hired on with a paid dept that has an area wide EMS system that provides to a Vollie dept, can that person be restricted from volunteering with that dept? it is not the same dept, we have our own tax base for fire, and we currently have a collective tax base with the municipality, but will most likely have our own EMS service area by the end of the year? what is the unions stand on this kind of thing? Thanks for your help.

[Smoke20286]

Go Away

[FyredUp]

Chug...

The IAFF has rules barring its members from volunteering. But, there are many IAFF members that do volunteer. My opinion on this would be to get through your probation with the career FD and then see what the admin and the local Union people feel about you volunteering.

I fully expect to be blasted for answering your question but I tried to be a little more helpful than telling you to "Go away."

FyredUp

[FWDbuff]

From another thread that you started which has become somewhat famous.....Or is it Notorious?

A year or so ago the Paid department that is nearest mine attempted a takeover of our department unsuccessfuly! One of the things they cited was that we were not professionals! Now I had completely forgotten that until tonight when my brother told me that me and my department were not professionals. That statement absolutely offends me. I wanted to see what other peoples takes were on that. Do you consider you and youre fellow volunteers professionals, or not?

Now, If I read this correctly, (and mind you, it is 0217 here while I am sitting watch....) you are saying that you are a volunteer. In THIS thread, you are asking if one can be barred from volunteering. Now, call me a simpleton, or tell me I am tired....But are you just trying, maybe possibly, to stir the pot? if so, go away!

[dmleblanc]

Originally posted by FWDbuff

Now, If I read this correctly, (and mind you, it is 0217 here while I am sitting watch....) you are saying that you are a volunteer. In THIS thread, you are asking if one can be barred from volunteering. Now, call me a simpleton, or tell me I am tired....But are you just trying, maybe possibly, to stir the pot? if so, go away!

If hired on with a paid dept that has an area wide EMS system that provides to a Vollie dept, can that person be restricted from volunteering with that dept?

FWD...sounds to me like he is a volunteer who is considering trying to get on with a paid department, but would like to know if there will be restrictions against him volunteering. At least that's how I read it. Of course, I may be a simpleton.....

[GimliOnFire]

Interesting scenario...

But not because of the Union.

If I was a responsible city manager, I would not want one of my employees performing the same work for the same employer. This scenario would take some clarification of duties to decide.

It's clear if you're volunteering in a suburb and respond into the city on a mutual aid engine call, you've exposed the city to the same liability as if you're on duty.

In a simple example, an employer couldn't call it "legal" to have their employees clock off at 5. Then come back 15 minutes later as employees of XYZ Temp Agency to continue performing the same work but without compensation like overtime.

Or FF Johnny was operating wearing gear in poor condition, a defective SCBA, a malfunctioning radio (all from the volunteer company), and under the direct supervision of his volunteer officer while on mutual aid from the volunteer company to us. But since he was doing the same work for the same employer, we're going to end up owning his Injured On Duty / Killed On Duty costs.

Now, if the City FD did not provide transport ambulance, and FF Johnny came in on a mutual aid ambulance (or just his part-time job at AMR...) it would be reasonable that it's not the same work, no liability for the city for him being there.

We now have the reverse -- the city providing what
may or may not be
the same work to the voluntter areas.

Say this scenario:
-- City FD provides First-Responder as well as Transport.
-- Volunteer FD provides First-Responder.
-- City FD gets paid (billing or contract) for Transports in Volunteer area.
-- City Firefighter, as a Volunteer, First-Responds and is injured at a call that the City ambulance is providing Transport. He's doing the same work (First Responder)...I honestly don't know where or if it's ever been legally established in this scenario where the line is to decide if he's exposed the city as an "employeer" since he's doing the same work, on the same job location, as he does for his full-time employer. Very messy legally IMHO.

As the city manager / Fire Chief / Attorney / etc I'd want to work out very clear guidelines in a situation like this...or just punt altogether and say "You can't volunteer to provide services you perform while in city employment within the City or at any scene the City Department you're employed by has been called to assist."