1. #1
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    Post FDNY & Diversity

    By PAT MILTON
    Associated Press Writer
    NEW YORK (AP) - As the city's Fire Department welcomed 235 new
    firefighters into its ranks on Wednesday, a group of black
    firefighters criticized its hiring practices, noting that only 11
    blacks and one woman graduated in the first class of 2005.
    "This is pathetic," Capt. Paul Washington, president of the
    Vulcan Society, a fraternal organization of black firefighters,
    said at a news conference outside the FDNY graduation ceremony at
    Brooklyn College.
    Of the city's roughly 11,000 firefighters, 300, or about 3
    percent, are black, while 30, or less than 1 percent, are women, he
    said.
    "This is a slap in the face of not only black New Yorkers but
    all New Yorkers," said Washington, who was joined by a dozen city
    firefighters. He accused the Bloomberg administration of having a
    lukewarm commitment to recruitment of minorities.
    Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta acknowledged that the
    department needs to increase the pool of minority applicants. He
    said the number of minority recruits at the Fire Academy has
    increased from 5 or 6 percent to 15 percent during his three-year
    tenure.
    "There is no discrimination," Scoppetta said. "But if you
    don't apply, you can't get the job."
    Scoppetta said the department has launched aggressive efforts to
    attract minorities, including having representatives speak at
    minority churches and community centers.
    "I myself have gone to minority churches, publicizing the
    nature of the job, the importance of the job, the attractions of
    the job," he said.
    Scoppetta said the department has also started a scholarship
    program with New York Sports Club to help women and minorities
    learn the techniques needed to pass the physical training portion
    of the firefighting exam.
    The Justice Department said in February that it was
    investigating the FDNY for possible discrimination in its hiring
    practices.
    The probe began after the Center for Constitutional Rights filed
    a discrimination complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity
    Commission on behalf of the Vulcans in 2002.
    Among other things, the Vulcans want the department to reinstate
    a cadet program that allowed Emergency Medical Services recruits to
    work toward a promotion to firefighter after two years, Shayana
    Kadidal, a lawyer for the CCR, said at the news conference.
    The sole woman graduating at Wednesday's ceremony was Daiana
    Mielnik, who is following in the footsteps of her sister, Kinga
    Mielnik, a firefighter for two years. The Mielniks are the only
    sister-sister firefighting team currently in the department.
    Daiana Mielnik said she joined because she was inspired by her
    sister and the courage of the firefighters who responded to the
    Sept. 11, 2001 attack on the World Trade Center.
    "More women should join," she said. "It's a great job, a
    brotherhood and sisterhood."
    Lorraine Cziko, who became a firefighter in 1982, said there was
    not always such camaraderie among the men and women.
    "It was tough," said Cziko, who retired four years ago. "We
    even had to use the men's bathrooms with a dead-bolt on the door."
    Cziko said the men wouldn't even talk to the women firefighters
    at first, but that things changed after about five years.
    "Now you crawl into a fire, shoulder to shoulder," she said.
    "It's a team effort now and everyone is equal."

    (Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

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    The sound of whining is becoming annoying. Apply for the job, pass the tests get hired.....enough, already!!!!!!!
    Never trust a smiling dog.
    The uniform you're given is free, but it comes with a history. Do the right thing when you're in it.
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    This is a problem that is happening all across the country. I know in my department we have been questioned by minorty leaders on the low number of minority FF in my dept. We tell them the same thing we cant hire them if they dont apply. We have a pretty strong recrutment program where we attend Job fairs, colleges, fire acadamies, etc. So I feel we are doing as much as we can but still dont get the intrest from minorities
    A "Good" fire is not measured by how big it is, but by the fact that everyone is going home safe, and that we possibly learned something new about firefighting. Member:IACOJ

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    Come on guys....its not their fault they dont apply or show up for the test...its mine. Dont you guys no anything about late 20th, 21st century America! Sheeesh!

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    Now that's an enterprising attitude!!!!! Snooze ya lose.
    Never trust a smiling dog.
    The uniform you're given is free, but it comes with a history. Do the right thing when you're in it.
    PTB, EGH, FTM.

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    Scoppetta acknowledged that the department needs to increase the pool of minority applicants. He said the number of minority recruits at the Fire Academy has increased from 5 or 6 percent to 15 percent during his three-year tenure.
    "There is no discrimination," Scoppetta said. "But if you don't apply, you can't get the job."
    [size=huge]BING-FREAKIN'-O![/size]
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    But Cap, don't you know that is racist and unfair?

    I should have lowered standards so that I can get on the job. If the numbers of minorities applying are reduced, and fewer are appointed, this is the only way to ensure that more minorities are hired over higher scoring applicants. Just look at the whole bi-annual fiasco that is known as the Massachusetts Civil Service Exam.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Scoppetta acknowledged that the department needs to increase the pool of minority applicants.
    Targeted recruitment, not a change in standards, is the answer. And you can't just stop at year two because you haven't seen instant results.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Default deja vu all over again... part deux

    FDNY has done targeted recruiting, as has the Boston FD and most major cities. The problem is, those targeted have no interest in the job.

    Tell you what... why not let the favored association of minority firefighters, the Vulcans, go out and do the targeted recruiting, since they are the most vocal critics of the hiring system!

    The minority community will probably listen more to a firefighter of color than that of those who are a shade or two "paler".

    How much money will the FD's be required to waste that could be used for better purposes... like increasing staffing, keeping firehouses open, etc. etc. etc.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    That was already offered....they wouldnt take it.

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    Of course they wouldn't take it........ Then they wouldn't have anybody to blame but themselves!!!!

    You will never convince Dennis on this issue....... Everyone else is the bad guy because people don't want to apply for the job........
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace

    Targeted recruitment, not a change in standards, is the answer. And you can't just stop at year two because you haven't seen instant results.
    Targeted recruitment? That's ridiculous. Nobody should get any special attention. The civil service exams are publicly announced and anyone can take the exam regardless of race. We don't need to go out and beg minorities to take the exams. If they want the job, then they'll take the exam, just like all the non-minorities do. I'd fed up with with people like Paul Washington and organizations like the Vulcan Society.

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    Talk about targeted recruitment, in Bridgeport, Connecticut the civil service commission and the city council accepted 9 applicants that had felony convictions, even though the Bridgeport Police internal affairs division deemed those individuals not suitable for hiring. Some in city government think it should be the fire departmenst job to rehabilitate these individuals. Same circus folks, just diferent clowns.


    Just my opinion

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    As published on firehouse.com ...
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Just as a reminder for all of us who weren't Irish, and then weren't Irish or Italian, remember you would have been hard pressed to get a FD job in the day. To those of us who are under 5'10" or whatever the magic height requirement was in your department, remember you would have been hard pressed to get a FD job in the day. Or those of us who got on after 25 years of age or whatever the magic age requirement was in your department, remember you would have been hard pressed to get a FD job in the day. This club has been exclusive, to the point of being inbred, at many times in its history. And the battle cry of “catering” (as in catering to the micks, wops, midgets, geriatrics, etc.) has been uttered for many years about many groups.

    I don't believe in lowering standards to "get" anyone, and if your department has never made "exceptions" for "good guys" (generally a Brother's relative) who’ve ended up being a total screw-ups or injury kings, that's great. But if your department has, as mine has, let's not cherry pick.

    Maybe if departments made an effort to target qualified minority or female candidates who are interested in the job (and they do exist), they wouldn't be lowering their standards. And for those of you decrying the cost of these programs and how it will eat up all the money the department would otherwise be spending on safety remember this quote from a FDNY BC, "If you have one chrome bell on your apparatus don't complain to me about not having money for important issues."

    Lastly, in my experience some of us who try the hardest to get on the job end up being the most dangerous and least capable of our extended family. Maybe sometimes there is a reason that some white guys fail to make the final grade (cuckoo, cuckoo).

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    Hey Skippy do you think there are any felons on the civil service commission?
    This is the tip of the iceberg. Wait until there's a promotional test approaching. We've had the federal government get involved with our "unequal hiring" since '79 and it started in '81. To make a long story short, after awhile it was decided that promotions weren't diverse enough. An entire promotional list was thrown out and on a few tests certain questions or an entire problem(usually a fire situation with 5 questions not multiple choice) were thrown out if there was a pattern of certain groups getting them wrong. Now after every test for every rank the results are sent to Washington D.C. to make sure the results are acceptable. If not the curve gets bigger and bigger.

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    Targeting your recruitment to certain minority groups is in itself inherently a racist thing to do.

    It shows a perceived direct preference for a specific group of individuals to appointed to a department over another group. If the announcements are posted everywhere, why should they have to go into certain neighborhoods to ensure that they get enough minority applicants?

    As stated before in all of these similar threads, cities spend huge amounts of dollars for very little return going into minority recruiting. I know the City of Worcester, MA, Boston, MA, and NYC spend huge bundles of cash and get very little out of it.

    Exactly what do you want done that isn't already being done and showing no results? If they don't apply and take the test, how are they going to get the job?

    This same crap goes on with many police departments as well.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    A funeral service will be held on Saturday June 11, 2005 for Firefighter Keithroy M. Maynard of Engine Company 33. Maynard was one of seven members of Engine Company 33 to be killed on September 11, 2001. The funeral will be held at 11 am at the Church of the Master located at 86 Morningside Avenue in Manhattan.
    All off-duty members and their families are invited to attend as a mark of respect to the deceased. Members are requested to attend in dress uniform.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

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    Originally posted by MattyJ
    That was already offered....they wouldnt take it.
    Then they need to be reminded of this. Repeatedly and loudly.


    Andy

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by IAFF760
    Just as a reminder for all of us who weren't Irish, and then weren't Irish or Italian, remember you would have been hard pressed to get a FD job in the day. To those of us who are under 5'10" or whatever the magic height requirement was in your department, remember you would have been hard pressed to get a FD job in the day. Or those of us who got on after 25 years of age or whatever the magic age requirement was in your department, remember you would have been hard pressed to get a FD job in the day. This club has been exclusive, to the point of being inbred, at many times in its history. And the battle cry of “catering” (as in catering to the micks, wops, midgets, geriatrics, etc.) has been uttered for many years about many groups.

    I don't believe in lowering standards to "get" anyone, and if your department has never made "exceptions" for "good guys" (generally a Brother's relative) who’ve ended up being a total screw-ups or injury kings, that's great. But if your department has, as mine has, let's not cherry pick.

    Maybe if departments made an effort to target qualified minority or female candidates who are interested in the job (and they do exist), they wouldn't be lowering their standards. And for those of you decrying the cost of these programs and how it will eat up all the money the department would otherwise be spending on safety remember this quote from a FDNY BC, "If you have one chrome bell on your apparatus don't complain to me about not having money for important issues."

    Lastly, in my experience some of us who try the hardest to get on the job end up being the most dangerous and least capable of our extended family. Maybe sometimes there is a reason that some white guys fail to make the final grade (cuckoo, cuckoo).
    well put
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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