1. #1
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    Default 2 Piece Companies

    I would like any information on departments that currently respond with 2 pieces of apparatus that function as a single company on scene. A truck company that utilizes an aerial and tender or squad is what I am most interested in. I would like to know if it is successful and was it put in place due to manpower shortages.

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    My dept runs 2 truck companies and 5 engines out of 5 stations. Our North end Truck is a 2 piece, south end used to be, and will be again soon. To be clear, the Truck companies only utilize one vehicle at a time. The choice of vehicle depends on many factors, and can be determined by the dispatcher, the Batt Chief, or the Company Officer.

    Truck 4 is a 3 person company with a 100' Tower ladder and an 18' box rescue truck (known as Rescue 4). The rescue truck is used for MVAs, EMS, when Truck 1 is first due or the call is in a trailer park. Truck 1 (3 people)is a 75' rear mount with pump/tank. When we traded one of our 2 rescue trucks with another dept they put all the Rescue gear from that rig on T-1. That has put T-1 at it's maximium weight and has significantly increased maintenance. We just awarded a bid for a new rescue to put with T-1.

    When I started on the Dept in 92, they had just gone to two 2 man/ 2 piece truck companies. From 86-92, they ran the Tower Ladder with driver only-usually the probie. The local fought that on the grounds of safety, and eventually we got a minimum of 2 people per rig. For a time we had a separate 2 man Truck and 2 man Rescue in the same station, with a 2 man truck/rescue at the other. We eventually attained the 3 man per rig safety staffing clause, and went back to 2 crossmanned companies.

    Hope that made sense and helps. Another common place to find crossmanning is airfields- a 4 man engine co. that responds 2 X 2 with the engine and a crash vehicle.

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    I've heard that San Jose, CA runs two piece trucks. I think they have a ladder and a rescue. Rochester, NY also runs two piece quint/midi companies. The quint is a 110' ladder truck with a pump, tank, and attack lines. The midi is a midi pumper that serves as the hose wagon since the quints only carry a small amount of 3". They're staffed with a crew of six, 2 on the midi and an officer and three on the quint.

    gunnyv, what department is that? It sounds like Flint. I know they run a 100' tower and just got a 75' quint and they also run two rescue trucks.

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    Toledo, OH has a few 2 piece companies, an engine and a Suburban Rescue Unit.

    A driver (usually a Paramedic) and the officer on the Rescue and 3 firefighters on the engine.

    It's in their union contract that for anything other than a basic EMS call, they must be dispatched as a company.
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

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    MBFD,
    Not Flint (THANK GOD), in Macomb County, around Mount Clemens.
    Last edited by gunnyv; 01-03-2006 at 05:32 PM.

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    I work for a combination Department and believe it not as silly as it sounds we'll run the Engine and the Ambulance as a two Piece or Task-Force if you will. - Fire Apparatus here is mainly staffed by the volunteers but as with many areas through out this great land daytime staffing is an issue. If an Engine here rolls with a full crew both Career Personnel will follow with the ambulance and assist the engine as needed - If the Engine Crew is looking light after 5 minutes either one or both of us will go on the engine and leave the ambulance behind "Technically Out of Service"

    We'll committ our ambulance to fire supression duties if the fire is in our local,and no injuries are reported. - All confirmed fires in our county automaticaly add an additional BLS and ALS Unit so we're pretty much covered.

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    LA City FD runs what one would call two-piece Companies with thier Ladder Companies and Pumper which are called Light Task Force. The Ladder has 5 memebers sometimes 4 and the Pumper has just the driver(Ladder Company 3 and Engine 203 make up the Light Task Force). Some of these are called Task Force in which they have a fully staff Engine assigned to the Station such Engine 3 which completes Task Force 3 and is assigned as a seperate company.

    In general Light Task Force is the general building block with all Light Task Forces and Task Forces with the FD. The only known exception is Task Force 9 in which Engine 9, Engine 209, and Ladder 9 are all fully staff and respond seperately.

    So in theory Light Task Force can only respond one incident at time. Task Force usually will respond together, but can make two completely different incidents. Super Task Force (Task Force 9) units can respond to 3 seperate incidents(Station 9 is one of the busiest stations), but again dispatch will usually send Engine 9 or Engine 209 with Ladder 9 if all units are at the Station.

    Abbott

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    My dept. ran for a year from 2/04 to 2/05 with our ladder company running with a heavy rescue. The union argued that we were running tandem but here is the kicker. Both trucks had officers. Before this we had made an extra officer on each shift which acted as a "manpower" officer filling vacancies or riding as 4th on the ladder truck if there were none. These spots were made in 7/01 in anticipation of running the squad (heavy rescue) full time. This didn't happen until 2/04 in which the 3rd guy from the ladder drove the squad essentially creating TWO separate companies. Tandem means ONE officer and a crew manning 2 trucks, not an officer and a firefighter on each. We violated our own contract which states "No apparatus shall be in service unless manned by an officer and 2 firefighters, except rescue companies (ambulance) which shall be manned by an officer and 1 firefighter/EMT." It was a failed experiment. The truck ran only about 50% of the time with the officer because the squad officer wasn't backfilled according to the MOU we signed. I argued the point that the city could sucessfully knock the 3rd guy off each company by using this as an example of how we could operate with 2 guys on a truck and sure enough in the arbitration filing they filed they wanted our minimum manning to go from 20 to 13. Close the squad and an engine and run with 3- 2 man engines, a 2 man ladder, 2- 2 man rescues and a BC. The means justified the end in their reasoning for their signing the MOU. We avoided it and the squad is history, but it proved a point that they didn't forget, and they will go hard after our manning next time. If you are going to run a 2 piece or tandem company, do it right. 1 officer and split the crew evenly.
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

    Edward F. Croker
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    Fire Dept. City of New York

    HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.

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    My dept does this with a couple of a truck companies. They run an aerial and an air rig.

    Mike Teague
    Metro Fire Sacramento

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    dont forget about the Chicago "squads"...one is a small snorkel.......and the other is a ladder tender /heavy squad ? speculation only .........anyone wants to offer more info go ahead.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Default heres a pic

    cfcgdgfd
    Last edited by Weruj1; 10-30-2010 at 09:33 PM.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Default heres a pic

    fdsfdsa
    Last edited by Weruj1; 10-30-2010 at 09:33 PM.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Here we run 3 on an engine and 2 on the trucks and medic units. Per SOP, on the fireground the truck and the medic crews work together for a 4 man truck company. Actual task assignments vary by shift. We have a Squad company detailed to interior search, so usually the truck is for OVM and roof work. Of course, this all depends on the medic unit being in service when the box comes in!

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    We run one station as a two piece unit, due to budget cuts. Our ladder was taken out of service and one captains slot was eliminated, one of our five engines was replaced with a quint and the other guy from the eliminated ladder was assigned to this rig for a four man crew, this crew was also given an ambulance with it's own response area. It functions as one company unless the ambulance is on a call.

    The department has now added a part-timer during certain hours to work on the ambulance to try to keep a three man crew on the enigine during the busiest parts of the day.

    We are now fighting the departments idea of using the part-timers instead of paying OT to the full-timers, which we see as the start of eliminating full-time jobs for part-time.

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