1. #1
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    Default E-One HP105 Issues

    Our department has a HP105 which is almost 10 years old. We keep having problems with the ladder being out of adjustment. It shakes badly while being retracted in the 35-60 degree range. We follow the manufacturers maintenance schedule, it has new pads etc. A month ago it was adjusted by a tech from a company in Colorado and now it is being readjusted tomorrow due to the exact same problem. We use it often for training and a few fires a year, but I have to wonder how it would hold up to being used in a busy department. If anyone has any ideas or experience with this problem I would like to have some info to pass along to our mechanic.

    Thanks
    Scott

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    It sounds as if the cables are still too loose. I would call steve dean at eone as he is the ladder specilist and talk to him. there are certain procedures for adjusting cables and it could be that the pulleys are worn also. i belive his number 352 861 3613

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    Thanks for the reply. Later this week an E-One related service company is going to try to fix it. It seems the upper fly section is warped. The service people are going to try to use shims under the pads, buff out the scoring etc on the ladder and try to adjust it. Hopefully it will work. If not I may call the guy you recommended.

    Scott

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    Buy Pierce, Aerialscope, Sutphen, American La France, or KME, and your problems will be solved. I have dealt with E-One aerials on several different occasions and everytime I've used them, they are complete junk, feel cheaply built. My advice...take the ladder off the top, scrap it, use that cash for a telesquirt to retrofit to the chassis and be done. Sorry...I'm in a ranting mood tonight.

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    PFD4Life, you bash E-One and in the same sentence endorse ALF and KME? You gotta be kidding me. They have their respective problems also, and then some. Out of every company you named, they all have had a catastrophic aerial failure before. But E-One hasn't. Hmmm. So who makes the feels cheap aerial?
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Red face

    STATION 2

    Not trying to start an argument, but Sutphen has not experienced a catastrophic failure.

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    Besides Sutphen, when has LTI, RK, AI, or KME/Grumman had a catastrophic failure? Pierce had the Cary failure. To my knowledge the only failure of a Smeal aerial was in New Rochelle, NY, and was the result of a total lack of preventative maintenance.

    I think there is a big difference between a ladder failure due to lack of maintenance or overloading and a ladder failure due to a true structural defect. The latter is fairly rare. Most failures are because of the human element, not because of the ladder itself. If you make a ladder fall down because you put 1500 lbs on the tip of a 250 lbs tipload stick, that's not that ladder's fault. The same goes for a lack of maintenance.

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    OFDFireman101, the first Sutphen Magnum 110' went down at the factory. True story. Smeal in San Anonio when Ferrara was still using them. I know that LTI has had more than one and AI, your kidding right? Last I heard they were still embroiled, eventhough they no longer exist in the same form, in a suit over one of their aerials. Seagrave (FDNY and Kansas City) and American La France (The original) have had them also. The Grumman, KME and RK incidents I'll find the specifics wherever I have them.

    As for why they fail, good question. But I agree, the failures caused by misuse or lack of maintenance should not reflect on the maker. But they do.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Just to be sure, is Ferrara building their own aerials? Our neighbors will likely be buying a Ferrara quint, and I think a bunch of the guys were under the impression that Smeal still built the aerials... That issue won't make or break the deal, as I suspect the city's bean counter really liked Ferrara's much lower bid, regardless of meeting spec.

    Let's hope that Sutphen tower went down as part of R&D. A lot easier to talk that one down I suppose if you can say it was done while "proof testing" or some such thing.

    Why is it we always have to tell someone else why what we chose is better? Surely you must be incompetent, your department chose brand X!

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    Talking aerial problem

    I am not sure if your unit falls into the years of units I had experience with or not. It seems to me that at one time E-One had come up with some upraded sheeves and pulleys to prevent the problem that you describe. Adjustments are critical throughout the areial system from the cables,pads and etc. What are the lube requirements?We were using Amsoil synthetic grease to lube those aerials.Good luck and keep it safe.

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    Ferrara is in fact still using Smeal aerials exclusively. They had used RK aerials in the past.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Company near me has a (now)KME/AerialCrap. No catastrophic failures on it, mostly due to they don't get enough chances to use it...it's out of service too often. In the last year or two, it has been completely "reserviced" and (knocking on wood) has had very little problems since.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Getting way off thread here, but how does Ferrara market an aerial made by someone else, but using a different length?

    Smeal 55 - Ferrara 57
    Smeal 75 - Ferrara 77
    Smeal 105 - Ferrara 107
    Smeal 125 - Ferrara 127

    Kind of odd if you ask me, but perhaps Ferrara specifies a different egress?

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    Please be careful. Ferrara can call it anything they want but it is still a Smeal ladders that is rated at 500 lbs at 75 ft., minus equipment, or in other terms, a one man ladder.

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    Honestly, I don't care who builds it because a ladder isn't in our future for quite some time, but isn't virtually everyone's straight stick rated at a 500 pound tip load? Unless you've got one that's rated at 250 (Pierce's medium duty, as an example), or one of those monsters that are basically tower ladders without the buckets, isn't a 500 pound tip load pretty much the standard? Yes - I know there are exceptions like some Sutphen units, etc.
    Last edited by npfd801; 08-09-2005 at 03:09 PM. Reason: darn typos...

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    THANK YOU lvwrench for actually answering the question, or atleast offering some help. I'm sure Scott appreciates it.

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    Big difference on the 500lb tip load ladders of some manufacturers. They are marketed as 500lb tip load devices but that truely only applies abouve 40 degrees elevation. Some Pierce and Seagrave devices come to mind with this issue. The point being to ask before you buy.

    As for requirements, the NFPA requires a 250lb tip load ladder as a minimum. You have all seen them. They have FDNY on the side of them and are made by Seagrave. The exception in recent history being the 4 '89 or '90 Seagrave 110' rigs that had the higher tip load rating (And 4 outriggers). I think they were assigned Ladder Co.'s 4, 49, 165 and 1 other.

    Oh well, just some thoughts.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    One other thing is that all painted ladders (which are usually steel) can rust from the inside without anyone knowing this until it is to late. With an E-One aluminum ladder you can see cracks with regular inspections. All painted one must be x-rayed. But all ladders have good and bad points. our kme/lti ladder is a piece of s**t and the E-one platform is a good ladder but we have issues with the electronics on the cab. But the ladder is a great ladder. chris

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    TC33FF, what ever happened to the first 135' aerial on the Gulf Coast? Still have it in reserve or is it gone?
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Default Seagrave aerial KISS method

    Seagrave's aerial has no reported failures when being operated under proper procedures. They use the keep it simple stupid method, the ladder and truck just plain work. Seagrave's ladder is either 500 or 250 tip load at any elevation under any water load. Once again the ladder just plain works.

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    While not trying to start an argument, but have you seen the aerial sections of a Seagrave ladder? Not confidence inspiring to me. Oh well, I don't have to climb it. And the catch all of "operating under proper procedures" is great if your changing light bulbs or putting up a sign. Now tell the Truck Co. that pulls up that they can't throw the stick to the 3rd floor window, perpendicular to the chassis and to max elevation to rescue a family in the window. The products we use should be built to handle the "out of the ordinary" and severe duty that they are subjected to without fear of failure. Whats the NFPA standard on aerial ratings? 2:1 as a minimum. Then why can't the aerial hold the weight under the circumstances to save a life or lives? Failures have happened before, and will happen again and the apparatus builders who built the failed rig will stand behind their "operating under proper procedures" small print to avoid the litigation. If that is the case then all fire departments should use less expensive utility cranes and bucket trucks to outfit Truck Co.'s. They have the same expectations of the fire apparatus makers in this day and time.

    And you would think that a company that makes "EMERGENCY EQUIPMENT" would actually field a product that can be used in an emergency under less than ideal cirumstances. And that is not even factoring in the sky-rocketing prices that builders charge for a rig.

    Oh well, what do I know. I'm just an end user expected to get the job done, not break the rig or anything in the process and do so with a shrinking budget and less manpower while avoiding getting sued along the way.

    And by the way, this isn't directed at Seagrave or any rig builder specifically, just apparatus makers in general.
    Last edited by STATION2; 08-09-2005 at 01:29 AM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Larry, THe E-One 135' truck had numerous problems like ladder didn't pass the test. So Galveston Gave it to Jamaca Beach VFD( Small town on the island) and they spent the money to get it fixed and working. So it is still on the island but not with GFD.

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    Now that you mention it, I do recall hearing that the GFD donated it to another department on the island. Thanks for the headsup.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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