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    Default Airbags and the Upper Rail Cut??

    Here is a 'heads up' for teams that make a cut(or cuts) into the Upper Rail behind the strut suspension system when rolling or jacking the dash.

    The image below is a 2006 Mercedes M-class vehicle. Look where the stored gas inflator is for the roof airbag system. As I look at it, I wonder if there is a concern about the Upper Rail cut if that side's roof airbag has not deployed.

    What's your take on this???
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    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

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    Here is the 2006 Mercedes M-class vehicle in a close-up view.

    If you want these images in full resolution, please email me and I will send them to you directly.

    Rmoore@firehouse.com
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    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
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    Hey Ron!

    Nice image

    I don't think that this type of gas generator mounting position is a concern when performing an upper rail cut. I think this because the gas generator is located far behind the upper rail, I think its a kind of illusion on the artwork. I think its really mounted behind the a-post in the dashboard area and it didn't go through the firewall of this m-class. I'll try to create my own artwork to show what I mean.

    By the way, some BMW uses the same mounting location (5 series), but it is s not so far in the fender area.
    Jorg Heck
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    Tried an overlay of 2 Mercedes-Benz artworks but it is difficult to see on a 320x212 resolution.
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    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
    http://www.moditech.com

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    This is what the upper rail looks like in close up.
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    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
    http://www.moditech.com

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    Simply speaking...I suggest that prior to cutting anything, one should expose the area and inspect the surroundings prior to actually cutting. That may be somewhat difficult, however necessary in late model vehicles.

    Has anyone 'found' an undeployed SRS after exposing an area during extrication?
    Developer and Sr. Presenter, Team Xtreme
    BIG RIG RESCUE

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    BigRig, please send me an email. Tried to answer your requeast but the TeamXtreme@... adress didn't work.
    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
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    Honestly can't say I have ever cut the upper rail that close to the firewall, I'm usually a bit more toward the front. Something to watch for though.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Default Accidental Discharge?

    Anyone read any stories about someone do a "strip before you rip" type check and having an airbag deploy accidentally on them? I'm just thinking there would be a serious projectile hazard messing around in that moulding with a screwdriver- I'd be surprised if it hasn't happened at least once.

    I know by the books we should be disconnecting the batteries and letting the capacitors bleed down, disconnect all power items ie: cell phones that are plugged in- to prevent bleed back of power to the capacitors and all this- but needless to say it doesn't get done in most cases. I'm not really asking for a safety lesson in why it should never happen, I just want to know if anyone has ever read of it actually happening.

    Thanks
    Ian "Eno" McLeod

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    It would be virtually impossible to deploy or puncture a curtain airbag gas inflator with a screwdriver or a prying tool. The canisters are a heavy guage steel. Most trim can be stripped by hand. Some of the upper end vehicles are attaching the trim with screws that make it difficult to pry back. The trim only has to be pryed back enough to locate the canister and avoid cutting in that location. At this time all of the canisters have matching locations from side to side. There are no vehicles that place the canisters in different locations on the right and left side of the vehicle. The undeployed bag itself can be cut. The danger lies with the inflation canister which has compressed gas in excess of 3000psi.

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    I'm more thinking about activity around the vehicle shorting out the system that activates the cannister. I'm not expecting myself to drive a screwdriver through the gas cannister whily prying back moulding. Again... I just want to know if anyone has heard of it happening- not why it wouldn't happen.

    Thanks
    Ian "Eno" McLeod

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    Ok....

    No, never heard of an air bag inflation due to prying on a vehicle's trim/moulding with a screwdriver.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Sigh... if you would read the thread instead of trying to be a smartass about the whole thing I'd appreciate it. I give up- thanks for nothing. For someone with that many posts, I'd have expected a bit more help.
    Ian "Eno" McLeod

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    OUCH!

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    If you are only looking for incidents of accidental deployment I can give you many with the curtain bags. They were all caused by striking the B-Post area while the key was on. I have not heard of any involving just stripping the trim.

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    Default Re: Accidental Discharge?

    Originally posted by Eno821
    Anyone read any stories about someone do a "strip before you rip" type check and having an airbag deploy accidentally on them? I'm just thinking there would be a serious projectile hazard messing around in that moulding with a screwdriver- I'd be surprised if it hasn't happened at least once.

    I know by the books we should be disconnecting the batteries and letting the capacitors bleed down, disconnect all power items ie: cell phones that are plugged in- to prevent bleed back of power to the capacitors and all this- but needless to say it doesn't get done in most cases. I'm not really asking for a safety lesson in why it should never happen, I just want to know if anyone has ever read of it actually happening.

    Thanks
    Sorry, just answering your question.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Default Re: Accidental Discharge?

    Your Question.....

    Originally posted by Eno821
    Anyone read any stories about someone do a "strip before you rip" type check and having an airbag deploy accidentally on them?
    Bones' answer....

    Ok.... No, never heard of an air bag inflation due to prying on a vehicle's trim/moulding with a screwdriver.
    Your response...

    Sigh... if you would read the thread instead of trying to be a smartass about the whole thing I'd appreciate it.
    Sorry he didn't specifically say the words "shorting out the system" but the question was have we heard of or scene it and the answer was no. To me that is all encompassing. He has not scene it as a result of puncture, short, or anything else associated with pulling the mouldings.

    Hey Bones....my legal fees for your defense entail 1 harley raffle ticket

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    Default Re: Re: Accidental Discharge?

    Originally posted by FFTrainer
    Hey Bones....my legal fees for your defense entail 1 harley raffle ticket
    Better get one quick...only 9 weeks left and over half sold. PM me your info and I'll grab one for ya!
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Be nice children. I expect these arguments when discussing lights on POV's and alcahol in the station- not SRS systems!
    Luke

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    hey now... we're just showing our diversity. Did you forget this is the fire service and we are forced to dabble in all areas???

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    Default Re: Re: Accidental Discharge?

    Next time you want to selectively quote someone- particularly your "client," how about you retain someone to selectively quote on the other person's behalf as well. Interesting how you leave my clarification of what I was looking for out of your rendition, before he got sarcastic and I got fed up.

    Furthermore, I would HARDLY consider his and only his opinion as gospel- especially after this little farce, and remained interested in the experiences of other viewers. Unfortunately, my intentions got lost in this little popularity contest and the educational value I sought of this thread has been drowned out by your relentless pursuits of imperfection.


    Originally posted by FFTrainer
    Your Question.....



    Bones' answer....



    Your response...



    Sorry he didn't specifically say the words "shorting out the system" but the question was have we heard of or scene it and the answer was no. To me that is all encompassing. He has not scene it as a result of puncture, short, or anything else associated with pulling the mouldings.

    Hey Bones....my legal fees for your defense entail 1 harley raffle ticket
    Ian "Eno" McLeod

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    Ok, so all those that have heard of actual incidents of accidental inflation speak up....













    anyone? anyone? Bueller?


    PS - there used to be some guy advertising on the internet as "The Airbag Doctor" who had a website listing all kinds of airbag incidents. You might be able to find his website out there somewhere. You may also want to send a message to Mr. Moore about your question and, if you find it, this Airbag Doctor.

    PSS - I also checked with a friend from OSHA to see if he could find anything. Also checked National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Still looking, but not finding any. Have you looked anywhere?


    Oh, and have a nice day.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    The person you are refering to is the "Airbag Detective" out of Minnnesota and most of his stories have been proven to be untrue like the slim jim killing the Deputy when the side airbag deployed. If you find any incidents I would definately check out the source!

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    Eno,To specifically address your query I submit the following.To strip coverings,I don't use a screwdriver,I use a carpenters flat bar.A small one so you can get into tight areas.Could you set off the airbag doing this?Highly unlikely(not impossible)due to the fact that almost everything in a SRS system is shielded in yellow overcoat,with locking style weatherpack connections to the bags and modules.Now all the "firing"units use some type of electrically actuated squib,similar to a blasting cap for the purpose we are discussing here.The ONLY way to render them 100% harmless is to remove them from the vehicle which isn't too practical.Now for Jorg,don't feel bad.That E-mail(that Bigrig assures me works)doesn't work for me either.Perhaps it doesn't work over the pond or north of the Mason/Dixon. Time to collect some more training aids. T.C.

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    A real cheap tool is an old tire iron...still easy to find and it doesn't matter if you loose it...

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