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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
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    Default Airbags and the Upper Rail Cut??

    Here is a 'heads up' for teams that make a cut(or cuts) into the Upper Rail behind the strut suspension system when rolling or jacking the dash.

    The image below is a 2006 Mercedes M-class vehicle. Look where the stored gas inflator is for the roof airbag system. As I look at it, I wonder if there is a concern about the Upper Rail cut if that side's roof airbag has not deployed.

    What's your take on this???
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    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
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    Default

    Here is the 2006 Mercedes M-class vehicle in a close-up view.

    If you want these images in full resolution, please email me and I will send them to you directly.

    Rmoore@firehouse.com
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    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

  3. #3
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    Hey Ron!

    Nice image

    I don't think that this type of gas generator mounting position is a concern when performing an upper rail cut. I think this because the gas generator is located far behind the upper rail, I think its a kind of illusion on the artwork. I think its really mounted behind the a-post in the dashboard area and it didn't go through the firewall of this m-class. I'll try to create my own artwork to show what I mean.

    By the way, some BMW uses the same mounting location (5 series), but it is s not so far in the fender area.
    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
    http://www.moditech.com

  4. #4
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    Tried an overlay of 2 Mercedes-Benz artworks but it is difficult to see on a 320x212 resolution.
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    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
    http://www.moditech.com

  5. #5
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    This is what the upper rail looks like in close up.
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    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
    http://www.moditech.com

  6. #6
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    Default

    Simply speaking...I suggest that prior to cutting anything, one should expose the area and inspect the surroundings prior to actually cutting. That may be somewhat difficult, however necessary in late model vehicles.

    Has anyone 'found' an undeployed SRS after exposing an area during extrication?
    Developer and Sr. Presenter, Team Xtreme
    BIG RIG RESCUE

  7. #7
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    BigRig, please send me an email. Tried to answer your requeast but the TeamXtreme@... adress didn't work.
    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
    http://www.moditech.com

  8. #8
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Default

    Honestly can't say I have ever cut the upper rail that close to the firewall, I'm usually a bit more toward the front. Something to watch for though.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  9. #9
    Forum Member Eno821's Avatar
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    Default Accidental Discharge?

    Anyone read any stories about someone do a "strip before you rip" type check and having an airbag deploy accidentally on them? I'm just thinking there would be a serious projectile hazard messing around in that moulding with a screwdriver- I'd be surprised if it hasn't happened at least once.

    I know by the books we should be disconnecting the batteries and letting the capacitors bleed down, disconnect all power items ie: cell phones that are plugged in- to prevent bleed back of power to the capacitors and all this- but needless to say it doesn't get done in most cases. I'm not really asking for a safety lesson in why it should never happen, I just want to know if anyone has ever read of it actually happening.

    Thanks
    Ian "Eno" McLeod

    Train Hard, Fight Easy

  10. #10
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    Default

    It would be virtually impossible to deploy or puncture a curtain airbag gas inflator with a screwdriver or a prying tool. The canisters are a heavy guage steel. Most trim can be stripped by hand. Some of the upper end vehicles are attaching the trim with screws that make it difficult to pry back. The trim only has to be pryed back enough to locate the canister and avoid cutting in that location. At this time all of the canisters have matching locations from side to side. There are no vehicles that place the canisters in different locations on the right and left side of the vehicle. The undeployed bag itself can be cut. The danger lies with the inflation canister which has compressed gas in excess of 3000psi.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Eno821's Avatar
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    I'm more thinking about activity around the vehicle shorting out the system that activates the cannister. I'm not expecting myself to drive a screwdriver through the gas cannister whily prying back moulding. Again... I just want to know if anyone has heard of it happening- not why it wouldn't happen.

    Thanks
    Ian "Eno" McLeod

    Train Hard, Fight Easy

  12. #12
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Default

    Ok....

    No, never heard of an air bag inflation due to prying on a vehicle's trim/moulding with a screwdriver.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  13. #13
    Forum Member Eno821's Avatar
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    Sigh... if you would read the thread instead of trying to be a smartass about the whole thing I'd appreciate it. I give up- thanks for nothing. For someone with that many posts, I'd have expected a bit more help.
    Ian "Eno" McLeod

    Train Hard, Fight Easy

  14. #14
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    Default

    OUCH!

  15. #15
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    Default

    If you are only looking for incidents of accidental deployment I can give you many with the curtain bags. They were all caused by striking the B-Post area while the key was on. I have not heard of any involving just stripping the trim.

  16. #16
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Default Re: Accidental Discharge?

    Originally posted by Eno821
    Anyone read any stories about someone do a "strip before you rip" type check and having an airbag deploy accidentally on them? I'm just thinking there would be a serious projectile hazard messing around in that moulding with a screwdriver- I'd be surprised if it hasn't happened at least once.

    I know by the books we should be disconnecting the batteries and letting the capacitors bleed down, disconnect all power items ie: cell phones that are plugged in- to prevent bleed back of power to the capacitors and all this- but needless to say it doesn't get done in most cases. I'm not really asking for a safety lesson in why it should never happen, I just want to know if anyone has ever read of it actually happening.

    Thanks
    Sorry, just answering your question.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  17. #17
    Forum Member fftrainer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Accidental Discharge?

    Your Question.....

    Originally posted by Eno821
    Anyone read any stories about someone do a "strip before you rip" type check and having an airbag deploy accidentally on them?
    Bones' answer....

    Ok.... No, never heard of an air bag inflation due to prying on a vehicle's trim/moulding with a screwdriver.
    Your response...

    Sigh... if you would read the thread instead of trying to be a smartass about the whole thing I'd appreciate it.
    Sorry he didn't specifically say the words "shorting out the system" but the question was have we heard of or scene it and the answer was no. To me that is all encompassing. He has not scene it as a result of puncture, short, or anything else associated with pulling the mouldings.

    Hey Bones....my legal fees for your defense entail 1 harley raffle ticket

  18. #18
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Accidental Discharge?

    Originally posted by FFTrainer
    Hey Bones....my legal fees for your defense entail 1 harley raffle ticket
    Better get one quick...only 9 weeks left and over half sold. PM me your info and I'll grab one for ya!
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  19. #19
    FIGJAM lutan1's Avatar
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    Default

    Be nice children. I expect these arguments when discussing lights on POV's and alcahol in the station- not SRS systems!
    Luke

  20. #20
    Forum Member fftrainer's Avatar
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    hey now... we're just showing our diversity. Did you forget this is the fire service and we are forced to dabble in all areas???

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