1. #1
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    Default Here's one I don't think is covered in 1403

    All I could think of is WOW. Maybe NEIowa or somebody else can get a local scoop.

    The story said they went ahead and held the drill. I think I would have packed it in for the day....

    Here's a link to the story

    Man saved from 'controlled' fire drill
    7/9/2005, 8:29 p.m. CT
    The Associated Press

    CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa (AP) What was supposed to have been a practice drill turned into a real life rescue for firefighters.

    As firefighters on Friday set fire to a dilapidated house as part of a drill to fight a controlled burn, a man appeared at one of the windows.

    "We changed gears, from watching a house burn to performing a rescue," said Cedar Rapids Fire Department spokesman Dave Koch. "Fortunately for him and us, he wasn't hurt."

    The fire was quickly extinguished and the man met rescuers at the door, Koch said.

    The man, identified as being homeless, didn't appear to be hurt. He was taken to St. Luke's Hospital for observation.

    The house had been used before by fighters for various drills and was checked twice before it was set on fire Friday, Koch said.

    The smoke apparently awakened the man, Koch said.

    "He was hiding somehow, somewhere," he said.

    The house was searched again before the fire was restarted, Koch said

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    Thus the reason that a primary search of "Abandoned" buildings should be done if at all possible if there was any way for someone to get into the building.
    We struck down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not bickering.

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    My company has been lucky enough to acquire several buildings to train in. In each case with the exception of the last two houses, my deputy chief has had the keys to the structures. He arrived early to prepare for our drills and then stayed longer then everyone else to make sure that the structures were secure.

    I agree with Skwerl530 that a primary search should be done in "Abandoned" buildings if at all possible.

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    wow he's lucky.
    Im still wondering how well they "checked" the building before stokin it.
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    WTF They didnt check the building before they set the fire? You've got to be kidding me.
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    umm

    The house had been used before by fighters for various drills and was checked twice before it was set on fire Friday, Koch said.

    he must have been hiding real well or they are just blind!
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    Originally posted by Dave1983
    WTF They didnt check the building before they set the fire? You've got to be kidding me.
    It was actually, twice. I thought the same thing, until I read farther down.

    My SAR team always practices in old abandonned buildings, mainly in old state hospitals/insane asylums. We always send a group through before starting training, every time, just in case some homeless people or young "explorers" are down there. We haven't found any homeless, but last weekend at an old mental hospital/school right near me called Pennhurst, we chased away a group of explorers. The main reason for the search is that we frequently send in members alone to hide for canine and human tasks, and don't want them to meet anyone by themselves....

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    But if you don't find anyone, it's ok to smoke them out , right?

    We are burning in some small camps next weekend, and I'll be sure to clear them before we ignite. We have very few, if any homeless here, but if one was inside, they probably would try to hide on you.
    There goes the neighborhood.

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    I won't comment until I read some detailed reports from the scene. However....something seems to be askew here. If the building was turned over to this department and used for previous evolutions....THEY are responsible for securing it and avoiding this type of incident.

    I await details......
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    Nice Post.

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    Same info as the stories in local news. Cedar Rapids radio station report this morning made a point of discribing the the guy as a bum (vs homeless). They hauled him off to the hospital for a checkup and then proceeded with their regularily scheduled training. Arrest for trespass should follow.

    Report was the guy was hiding in the house. Duh. Report is that no accelerants were using in the training. The smoke woke the guy up and he went to a window to see what was going on. Huhhh??? Lucky this time.

    No reports what CR search was but I guess the point would be that in performing a search, a lookiesee in the livingroom for someone napping on a lazyboy in front of a tv is not sufficient. If they are illegally in/living in the structure perhaps they are hiding from other bums/criminals/gangs/police/motherinlaw/etc? A REALLY good use for a thermal imager? Always a good piece of equipment to train on anyhow. Perhaps a useful change to NPFA would be "perform a search with thermal imager"?

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    My first reaction was Focking Morons...

    But neiowa's post triggered another thought -- if the guy was actively hiding, he may have legitimately been missed. I don't know the layout of this house, could've had rooms with multiple entrance/exits. If they had done wall breaches, that many more possibilities.

    So your John Bum. You know you're not supposed to be there. Firefighters walking through the building. As you hear them get go room to room, you sneak out the back side of the room.

    Without seeing more detailed reports...

    I don't think CR needs to be criticized for not securing the structure (if someone wants in, they'll get in.)

    Nor for not finding the guy -- if we make the assumption he was actively seeking not to be found, there's lots of buildings I've seen where you're not going to find someone who doesn't want to be found unless the Police bring in a K-9.

    Add to your list of things to do shouting "Everyone out, we're going to burn this building down!"
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    Like NJ says.....there has to be more to the story... If the person was hiding......they had to hear the Fire Department in the building while they were looking and preparing it. You would think the person would come out to see "what is going on?"

    It does not say where they were hiding...but it had to be an "out of sight out of mind" thing....perhaps in the attic or a cellar or in some cases the older houses have concealed spaces that are accessible but no so obvious.....

    More details?????????????
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    i have encountered similar situations in acquired structures. We had buildings to burn and it was obvious someone was "squatting there". We would clean up and remove stuff and when we returned there was more stuff there. We made signs and posted them on all doors and first floor windows saying: "n XX/XX/XXXX the Fire Department will be conducting live fire training exercises to destroy this building at the permission of the owner." "Please remove yourself and any personal items from this building."

    However, we still made sure it was empty......
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    The smoke woke the guy up
    IF (IF) that line in the report is correct, he was not actively hiding moving from room to room. He was sleeping somewhere, probably obvious, and no one found him.

    Using the TIC would not be a bad idea, but if that is needed to find someone in a house that is not on fire, not filled with smoke, etc.....there might be a need for some "more obvious" training.
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