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  1. #1
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    Default Don't you have to have a brain to be a FF?

    This is simply the most unbelievable thing that I have ever read in my life. Any FDNY member who defends this idiot has forfeited the right to bitch about the NYPD HazMat fiasco.

    New York Firefighter Takes Suspicious Pipe Bomb into his Firehouse

    Updated: 07-11-2005 09:51:53 AM

    WABC News - New York
    At 10:30 last night firefighters were called to a residential block not far from the firehouse for a small fire in a trash can. They extinquished it without incident. That should have been the end of that, except a pipe bomb was discovered in a trash can.

    (New York-WABC, July 10, 2005) ó An investigation is underway tonight into why a New York City firefighter removed a pipe bomb from the scene of a suspicious fire and took it back to his firehouse in Queens.

    Eyewitness News reporter Lucy Yang has the story.

    Police are looking into the actions of a fire lieutenant at the firehouse in Flushing for what he reportedly did and did not do last night.

    While some in the neighborhood are calling him heroic, officials argue it was downright dangerous.

    By the time the bomb squad was called to Engine 320,proper procedures had not been followed prompting not only questions, but an official investigation.

    At 10:30 last night firefighters were called to a residential block not far from the firehouse for a small fire in a trash can. They extinguished it without incident. That should have been the end of that, except a pipe bomb was discovered in a trash can.

    Instead of calling the bomb squad immediately, police say, the fire lieutenant took the bomb back to the firehouse, took it apart, put the cap back on, then, called the bomb squad an hour and a half later.

    Security expert William Callahan says not only were fire department procedures breached, the whole firehouse was put at risk by bringing a dangerous explosive back to base.

    William Callahan: "The pipe bombs are very, very unstable. They are packed with black explosive. They are home made. It has got to be transported in special container. Now, the fire department knows that, prepares for that."

    Danny Simone, resident: "I think he did a smart courageous thing, he got it out of a resident area, brought it to commercial area, where there would be minimal damage."

    No one was injured last night.

    A fire department spokes person was here saying that indeed protocol was not followed last night.

    Too early to say if internal review will lead to disciplinary actions against the lieutenant. For now this case is in the hands of the police.


    Courageous? He jeopardized the lives of untold numbers of people, including his own crew. He also tampered with a crime scene, rendering whatever forensic evidence was there is now destroyed. Really brilliant thing to do. Hey, you hardly hear about bombs being set off these days.

    What an idiot.


  2. #2
    FIGJAM lutan1's Avatar
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    Wow!

    We do some really stupid things don't we?
    Luke

  3. #3
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    Yeah ok

  4. #4
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    Originally posted by MattyJ
    Yeah ok
    If ya got something to say, say it. Let's hear you defend this "brother".

  5. #5
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Eeesh. FF or not, I don't think I'd want to pickup a pipe bomb or any bomb for that matter.

    A few months ago, I and a colegue were sitting around the firehouse doing whatever. Guy started banging on the door which is ususally either a lost motorist or someone with a drive-up medical emergency. We go down to the door and are greeted by this guy...

    Guy: "Hi. I have thing I wanted to give you since I don't want it in my basement anymore"

    Me: "What is it?"

    Guy: "I don't remember what it's called but's supposed to be extremely toxic and I don't want it to explode in my house"

    Me: "[Deer in headlights look] Umm, what?!?" (remembering the moron who brought a hand grenade he found in his basement to the neighboring police station)

    Guy: "Here, it's in this box in my truck, you'll know what it is."

    He grabs the box and opens it. Turns out it was just one of those carbon tetrachloride heat activated "bombs" you would have attached to a wall behind a furnace. Old school, but apparently a collector's piece.

    In that 10 seconds this took place, I envisioned the whole block being cordoned off, evacuating the church, store across the street and shutting down the one major road in town because someone found a missile in their great grandfather's luggage.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  6. #6
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    Im not going to defend him because I dont know what really happened. But, Unlike you, I will not rely solely on what the Daily News says happened to condem him either (the News has been so acurate in the past)
    I will tell you that the guys actually from the FDNY who worked with him say is a great officer who has worked in some of the best companies, and has earned, at least, the right to have his side heard before being tarred and feathered. From what Ive heard, the news stories might not be entirly accurate (imagin that). Theres more to the story than you're hearing in Flanders.
    So no, I wont defend him, or condem him. I learned long ago to wait until ALL the facts are out before passing judgement. And to NEVER believe EVERYTHING the media puts out. But you seem to enjoy any chance you get to slam the FDNY, (I know you have "many" friends here) So keep your eyes open; another of the 10,000 of us might make a mistake soon enough and you'll have another opportunity.

  7. #7
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Look, I respect the FDNY as much as anybody else. But come on even I, a firefighter from a small midwestern city, can see this was wrong.

    Why would anyone other than a trained expert even touch a pipe bomb let alone disassemble it? Suppose that thing blew up in the firehouse and killed the entire crew? Then what? Another panic over terrorism with the thought of an attack on a firehouse?

    And I agree with George any physical evidence was destroyed when the fire officer tampered with the pipe bomb. And with that any chance of catching the bomb maker or planter.

    Sorry, unless an FDNY guy can explain more than the story says...this was wrong, dangerous and frankly stupid.

    FyredUp

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    WOW!

    I will withhold my judgement on the BROTHERS till after the INVESTIGATION!

    God bless and pull the ceiling as you go.


    PS... remember O.J. ?
    remember M.J ?
    Both guilty as hell until after the investgation.

  9. #9
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    I am also going to withhold judgement until after the real story comes out.

    Remember guys, these are the same news agencies that took a civilian account of a tower ladder taking a curve at 70 mph in Brooklyn last week and then reporting it as gospel. They don't care about the facts, they just want to sell tabloid newspapers.

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  10. #10
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    I have a feeling that the officer had some sort of reason for waiting. It's very possible he was just stupid, but perhaps he didn't know it was a pipe bomb right away. Maybe there was another reason they brought it back to the firehouse and then they took off the end cap and realized what it was...who knows unless you were there. I agree with some of the previous comments, lets wait for the whole story.
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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by CAPPYY
    PS... remember O.J. ?
    remember M.J ?
    Both guilty as hell until after the investgation.
    Cappy, those may not be the best two individuals to use as an example.

    I don't think they really represent "innocence" to the bulk of the public.
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  12. #12
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    Suspended w/o pay? They don't suspend you w/op ay unless you are in some pretty dep stuff.

    NEW YORK (AP) - A fire captain has been suspended for violating
    protocol when he allegedly delayed reporting the discovery of a
    pipe bomb to the police's bomb squad unit, Fire Commissioner
    Nicholas Scoppetta said Monday.
    "Captain James Goelz of Engine Company 320 has been suspended
    without pay pending further investigation into the incident
    involving a pipe bomb in Queens on Saturday night," Scoppetta said
    in a statement.
    Firefighters partially disassembled the homemade device, found
    in a burning recycling bin in the Bayside section, and then
    allegedly violated procedure by bringing it back to a firehouse
    before calling the police bomb squad unit nearly an hour later.
    "The captain involved did not follow protocol," FDNY spokesman
    Charles Markey said Monday.
    Police eventually took the gunpowder-filled, 8-inch bomb from
    the firehouse to a bomb squad disposal facility.
    "We have protocols for the discovery of an explosive device.
    They weren't followed in this case and we're looking into why,"
    FDNY spokesman Frank Gribbon told the Daily News. "The one thing
    you don't do is take it with you."
    Authorities also were working to determine who assembled the
    device.


    BTW, there is an enormous difference between being found not guilty in a court of law and being innocent. If OJ and MJ (both investigations were completely screwed up from the beginning) aer your best examples, you don't have any examples.

  13. #13
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    Lightbulb Now THAT I Can Believe...................

    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    BTW, there is an enormous difference between being found not guilty in a court of law and being innocent. If OJ and MJ (both investigations were completely screwed up from the beginning) are your best examples, you don't have any examples.

    I couldn't agree more.


    Sorry, I just can't understand this one. If someone finds something that they would have to know was illegal, and fails to follow proper procedure, then there is a problem. And, in regard to the Press articles, anyone notice that the guy started out as a Lieutenant and ended up as a Captain? So much for accuracy.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Now THAT I Can Believe...................

    Originally posted by hwoods



    I couldn't agree more.


    Sorry, I just can't understand this one. If someone finds something that they would have to know was illegal, and fails to follow proper procedure, then there is a problem. And, in regard to the Press articles, anyone notice that the guy started out as a Lieutenant and ended up as a Captain? So much for accuracy.
    Following procedures is only one aspect. Tampering with a crime scene is a far more serious aspect.

  15. #15
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    So, providing that this is true, there is another issue with this:

    What in the Hell were the 4 or 5 other guys on the truck doing allowing this guy to put a suspected or known explosive device in a fire engine that THEY were going to be riding in as well? Much less, even allow this twit to pick up a suspected or known explosive device? Did it have a motion sensor? If it was dropped would it detonate?

    Not only did this guy (if it is true - otherwise how in the heck did a pipe bomb get from the call that they went to back to the fire station?) violate the department SOP (along with everyone on his crew violating the protocol) but he violated basic rules of common sense.
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  16. #16
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie
    So, providing that this is true, there is another issue with this:

    What in the Hell were the 4 or 5 other guys on the truck doing allowing this guy to put a suspected or known explosive device in a fire engine that THEY were going to be riding in as well? Much less, even allow this twit to pick up a suspected or known explosive device? Did it have a motion sensor? If it was dropped would it detonate?

    Not only did this guy (if it is true - otherwise how in the heck did a pipe bomb get from the call that they went to back to the fire station?) violate the department SOP (along with everyone on his crew violating the protocol) but he violated basic rules of common sense.
    Shark, take it one step further...

    What in the Hell were the 4 or 5 other guys on the truck doing allowing this guy to take the device apart while he was sitting at their kitchen table?

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


    Shark, take it one step further...

    What in the Hell were the 4 or 5 other guys on the truck doing allowing this guy to take the device apart while he was sitting at their kitchen table?
    So much for truth being important - George where was it mentioned that he did it at the kitchen table? And if you read one of the articles that you posted (extract below) it says that they did the partial disassembly at the scene before taking it back to the firehouse.

    "Firefighters partially disassembled the homemade device, found
    in a burning recycling bin in the Bayside section, and then
    allegedly violated procedure by bringing it back to a firehouse
    before calling the police bomb squad unit nearly an hour later."


    But hey George - never let the truth get in the way of a good asassination of a Brother!
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

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  18. #18
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    Originally posted by stillPSFB

    So much for truth being important - George where was it mentioned that he did it at the kitchen table? And if you read one of the articles that you posted (extract below) it says that they did the partial disassembly at the scene before taking it back to the firehouse.

    "Firefighters partially disassembled the homemade device, found
    in a burning recycling bin in the Bayside section, and then
    allegedly violated procedure by bringing it back to a firehouse
    before calling the police bomb squad unit nearly an hour later."


    But hey George - never let the truth get in the way of a good asassination of a Brother!
    It's called literary license. It is also irrelevant. Would it make it any less egregious if it occurred in the apparatus bay? In the bunk room? In the basement?

    Never let the facts get in the way of blindly supporting an idiot, even if he committed a crime.

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    We are overlooking another important piece here....

    Let's just say they didn't know it was a pipe bomb. Let's also say that is wasn't part of a potential crime scene.

    Why on earth would they go to someone's house and remove a personal belonging and take it back to the firehouse?? If they didn't know what it was, they should have left it. If they thought it was suspicous, they should have called in the proper authorities.

    Either way you look at it, they screwed up. They either brought a bomb back to the firehouse or committed theft on personal property.

    Don't see how you can defend this from any angle.

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by WebFire
    We are overlooking another important piece here....

    Let's just say they didn't know it was a pipe bomb. Let's also say that is wasn't part of a potential crime scene.

    Why on earth would they go to someone's house and remove a personal belonging and take it back to the firehouse?? If they didn't know what it was, they should have left it. If they thought it was suspicous, they should have called in the proper authorities.

    Either way you look at it, they screwed up. They either brought a bomb back to the firehouse or committed theft on personal property.

    Don't see how you can defend this from any angle.
    In what possible scenario would a pipe bomb NOT be a crime scene?

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