1. #51
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    Default Not a day at the beach

    Received this a few days ago. Be prepared for every step in the hiring process before you get there so you know what to expect.

    Captain Bob,

    I am writing today with hopes that you can explain a few things in relation to the polygraph examination. Last week I was subject to an oral board examination and a polygraph for fire department. I was very excited about my interview because I knew that I was going to nail it, which is exactly what I did. After completion of my interview I was moved onto fitting for turnout gear after which I was moved onto my "lie detector" test.

    The test started off with the polygraph explaining the test and assuring me that as long as I "tell the truth" I have nothing to worry about. I have no skeletons in the closet and have a completely clean background (no drugs, no crimes, etc.). I willingly submitted to the test.

    After the explanation of the test the polygraph handed me an approx. 8-page packet which contained a waiver, the ten questions to be asked on the polygraph test, and several "have you ever committed _____" questions. I filled out this packet of information and waited my turn to "test." After a few minutes the candidate who was being polygraphed before me came out and the polygraph evaluator led me into a private office to conduct the "test."

    Immediately the polygraph started to patronize me. He mocked my signature and commenced to interrogate me as to why I want to be a firefighter. I assumed at first that his curiosity was just trivial, but when I told him that I was trying to attain my dream job he started to mock this as well. After the hazing was completed he progressed to ask me pertinent questions that related to my background. I told him of the few things that I have done wrong and we commenced the polygraph "test."

    During this test he would not allow me to take a deep breath nor would he allow me to open my eyes. He told me "if you don't close your eyes I wont do this test" and "no more deep breaths or I wont continue the test."

    Additionally he changed the questions that were supposed to be asked on the "examination" to take new forms. I completed the test and was unhooked from the machine. We had a casual discussion of no significance and he escorted me from the room.

    As I exited the room he asked, "do you have a sense of humor?" I replied "yes." As I stepped into the hallway from which the room was accessed there was another candidate and several employees of the fire-rescue division standing outside "shooting the breeze." I shook hands with a few of the employees and candidates that I recognized and started to head for the exit. As I was walking away the polygraph said "hey Steve, stay off of the marijuana!"

    As previously mentioned I have NEVER consumed any illegal narcotic, including marijuana. I was so humiliated by his comment that I couldn't even turn around to make any sort of retort to his remarks. I exited the building and went home.

    I have spent years preparing for this opportunity and I am terrified that some jerk just ruined my chances of the career that I have dreamed about for years. In addition, if this "gentleman" is in the wrong do I have any recourse?

    Be prepared for every step in the hiring process before you get there so you know what to expect.

    Captain Bob

    www.eatstress.com

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    Default what has this to do with the price of rice in China?

    What does this have to do with the previous comments. If you think that anyone regardless of how well your compatriot in "how to beat the lie detector" could prepare anyone for this. I scream BS. This poly examiner waas and is way out of line. This gentleman has got to let it be known what occurred. The examiners actions were unethical at best and probably illegal. This still does not justify telling people how to lie and cheat on the polygraph. Answer what has been laid before you. How do you justify teaching or assisting in teaching people how to lie on their poly and get away with it. I know that you do not believe in the technical aspects of the Polygraph but that does not justify helping people to cheat it.
    Are you willing to take responsiblity if some pedophile uses this system to get into the fire service to gain trust and access of children. I think not. Remove your endoresment of this guy. Its the ethical thing to do. For the honor of the service.
    "Nothing counts until you earn the badge truthfully"

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    Thumbs up I wish more people had taken advantage of me while I was testing

    In the spring I took a swift-water rescue class that was taught by off duty firefighters, who were paid very well for their services. I am now on the departments rescue team. I paid $200 and drove 400 miles to take a class on cutting up new cars last winter. It was taught by off duty firefighters who were paid for their time.

    Was I taken advantage of? Should those people who are firefighters, or are helping people to get hired, promoted or get special training, not charge for their time and materials? I wish that materials like that were around when I was testing, I’m sure I would have been hired sooner; oral boards aren’t my strong suit.

    But I did get a book and materials on passing the written tests. Was the person that sold it to me taking advantage of me? Or was he helping me “CHEAT” the written test? If you can read something on a web site, or buy something to watch, and beat a polygraph, I would have to say they don’t work very well.

    After all of this, I talked to the three guys on my shift that used Capt Bob’s stuff, and they couldn’t say enough good stuff about him. In fact, one of the guys said he had called Capt Bob’s “888” number a bunch of times with questions, and he answered the phone every time and helped him a lot. He never bought any of the stuff from him and he still helped and never asked if he had bought anything. It’s real easy to give opinions, but hearing from the people who were “taken advantage of” doesn’t seem to back up your criticisms.

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    Capt Bob is my father. I find it hard to believe that an allegation of taking advantage of people has been made against him. He has spent most of retirement helping people get hired and promoted with excellent results. I don’t hear any of those people complaining. If somebody could just explain to me, how is it possible to take advantage of a person, when you give a 100% money back grantee? No questions asked, and to the best of my knowledge no one has ever taken advantage of it. I offer the same and I know no one has asked me for one.
    Last edited by FFighterRob; 07-21-2005 at 10:14 PM.

  5. #55
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    I’m as concerned as anyone about hiring the right candidates. I do not encourage candidates to cheat or lie only to be prepared in advanced of every step of the hiring process. You’re a free agent. Prepare for the testing process what ever way works best for you. The link to polygraph.com is one of many resources for candidates. I’m not affiliated in anyway with their program.

    If polygraphs are so great why aren’t the results admissible in court cases? Criminologists say lie detector tests pass 10 percent of the liars and fail 20 percent of the truth-tellers.

    If you were one of the many candidates I hear from that “claim” they told the truth in their polygraph and failed you would be angry too.

    I talked to a candidate the other night who just took a polygraph and failed. The evaluator kept hammering him about reactions he was receiving. The questions surrounded him of not only being a drug dealer but a pimp. He said nothing could be farther from the truth. How would that make you feel if you were telling the truth?

    The first time I ever had contact and talked to Paul was 45 minutes after he got the call that he had failed his poly. Needless to say he was devastated. When I asked him what he had done to prepare for his polygraph he said he used the free information from some of the “experts” on this forum. Using those guidelines he said he went in and spilled his guts, just like going to confession.

    Just a few minutes into our conversation he realized that he had become too familiar with the evaluator, got chatty, volunteered too much beyond what was requested, was really nervous but thought everything was going just great.

    Paul wrote:
    The next test I take, I assure you, I will be better prepared.

    According to Doug Williamson a 35-year veteran polygraph evaluator from www.polygraph.com “It is a very serious mistake to believe that you will pass your polygraph or CVSA tests just because you are telling the truth - they are not "lie detectors". Scientific research proves that simple nervousness will cause a truthful person to fail!”

    I talked to Scott after he checked out polygraph.com. He realized he had not been as prepared as he could have been before his polygraph. If he had it to do over again he would have been better prepare in understanding the process before his evaluation and could have had a better opportunity of passing without compromising his truthfulness as others are referring to here.

    Are Polygraph Tests Lying to Us?
    This article is from the Baltimore Sun. It should give you an insight to the polygraph delimma:

    Tests: Mixed reading of Lee's nuclear secret data, federal
    employee opposition to taking lie detectors 'reignite'
    80-year-old controversy.

    By Michael Stroh
    Sun Staff

    When physicist Wen Ho Lee first denied
    leaking U.S. nuclear secrets to the Chinese, authorities from
    the Department of Energy in 1998 wired him to a polygraph
    to see if he was lying.

    The Los Alamos National Laboratory scientist passed.

    But when a polygraph expert from the FBI looked at the
    same test results later, he concluded that Lee had not told
    the truth.

    How could the same lie detector test lead investigators to
    exactly opposite conclusions?

    The case of Lee, who eventually pleaded guilty to one
    felony count of mishandling classified information, has left
    law enforcement experts trying to answer the same
    fundamental questions that have existed since the invention
    of the lie detector 80 years ago: Does the polygraph
    actually work? And is it fair?

    "It's reignited this smoldering controversy," says Steven
    Aftergood, a senior research analyst with the Federation of
    American Scientists in Washington. In an essay being
    published today in the journal Science, Aftergood argues
    that a new federal policy requiring nearly 20,000
    employees of the national nuclear weapons laboratories to
    take lie detector tests is having undesirable effects.

    The policy has lowered morale, Aftergood writes, and
    caused some of the nation's most gifted scientists to leave,
    and made it harder for the labs to recruit talented young
    researchers for the weapons programs. The use of the
    polygraph, he writes, "symbolizes the defeat of reason by
    the national security state."

    Despite such criticisms, the use of the polygraph test is on
    the rise.

    Congress banned private industry's use of lie detectors as a
    condition of employment in 1988, but they are routinely
    used for employee screening at the FBI, Central Intelligence
    Agency, National Security Agency and local police
    departments around the country. The percentage of law
    enforcement agencies using polygraphs for this purpose
    rose from 16 percent in 1962 to 62 percent in 1999,
    according to a survey by Michigan State University's
    School of Criminal Justice.

    There's also a growing market for polygraphs outside law
    enforcement. The American Polygraph Association, the
    largest polygraph accrediting and licensing organization in
    the country, reports that its membership has risen past 2,000
    and is continuing to grow.

    Private polygraph examiners handle everything from fishing
    tournaments to divorce cases. Winners of the annual Big
    Rock Blue Marlin Tournament in Morehead City, N.C., for
    example, must submit to a polygraph before collecting any
    prize money (to make sure they haven't stuffed rocks in the
    gut of their prize catch).

    Lie detectors aren't designed to detect lies as much as the
    subtle physical changes that may occur when a person tells
    a lie. The word "polygraph" means "many writings," and
    that is what the polygraph machine produces: lots of
    squiggly lines on a scrolling piece of paper.

    The test works like this: A subject is seated in a chair. Two
    rubber belts are wrapped around his chest and stomach to
    measure breathing patterns. A blood pressure cuff is
    wrapped around an arm. A metal plate attached to the
    fingers measures sweat gland activity.

    The polygraph examiner then asks the person a series of
    questions. Some of the queries are "control" questions
    unrelated to the matter under investigation but establish a
    base line of the person's blood pressure, respiration and
    perspiration. Other questions directly address the actions
    under scrutiny.

    The examiner interprets the person's physiological response
    to each of the questions, as recorded on scrolling paper, to
    judge whether the person is lying. And thus the uncertainty
    about polygraph results: they are a matter of judgment.
    "There's no red light or siren that comes on when the person
    lies," says Milton O. "Skip" Webb Jr., president of the
    American Polygraph Association.

    The roots of the modern lie detector stretch back to
    antiquity. Like modern methods, early techniques to ferret
    out lies often relied on the behavior exhibited by liars -
    sweaty palms, dry mouth, shifting gaze, racing pulse.

    In China, for example, suspected liars were fed a handful of
    dry rice. If they could spit it out, the thinking went, they
    were telling the truth. If the rice stuck to their tongue, they
    must have something to hide.

    The modern quest to detect liars using technology began
    with Cesare Lombroso, an Italian criminologist who in
    1895 published a book called "The Criminal Man" in which
    he described his efforts using an early instrument to
    measure changes in blood pressure to determine whether
    several criminal suspects had lied.

    In 1915, Harvard psychologist William Moulton Marston
    picked up on these early studies and devised a primitive lie
    detector based on blood pressure. According to
    psychologist and polygraph historian David Lykken, it was
    Marston, a colorful P.T. Barnum-like character, who was
    among the first to realize the lie detector's commercial
    possibilities.

    In 1938, Look magazine described how Marston sometimes
    used his lie detection techniques in marital counseling. He
    also showed up in full-page ads testfying to the close shave
    offered by Gillette razors: "New Facts about Shaving
    Revealed by Lie Detector!" (Using the pen name "Charles
    Moulton," Marston would also invent the comic strip
    character Wonder Woman, whose magic lasso could force
    those held to tell the truth. )

    But John A. Larson, a Berkeley, Calif., police officer, is the
    person generally credited with inventing the modern
    polygraph machine. In 1921, Larson, who eventually
    became a doctor, devised an instrument that could
    simultaneously record blood pressure, pulse and
    respiration. Later tinkerers improved upon Larson's design
    by adding sensors to measure perspiration.

    Over the years scientists have tried to determine whether
    the polygraph actually works. But accurate studies are hard
    to do. "The science is not solid," says Aftergood, in part
    because investigators can rarely learn independently
    whether a subject who passed a polygraph test was indeed
    telling the truth.

    In some studies, volunteers are recruited to be pretend
    criminals and then subjected to a lie detector test. But the
    results of such work, critics argue, don't mimic reality. "It's
    impossible to make the stakes as high in an experiment as
    they are in real life," says Aftergood.

    Still, proponents of the polygraph argue the device is
    accurate in better than 90 percent of cases, and note that it's
    not uncommon for other types of test results to be open to
    interpretation.

    "Your doctor can have you take a chest X-ray and say, 'I
    don't see anything.' Then he sends it over to a radiologist
    and the radiologist finds something the first doctor doesn't
    see," says Webb. "Happens all the time."

    But enough guilty people have slipped past the polygraph to
    have given law enforcement officials pause. Most federal
    and state courts do not allow polygraph results to be
    entered as evidence.

    CIA employee Aldrich Ames, for example, passed lie
    detector tests despite selling U.S. secrets to the Russians
    for more than eight years. There's also a mini-industry of
    Internet sites and books such as "Deception Detection:
    Winning the Polygraph Game" that purport to teach people
    how to beat the test.

    "College students with 15 minutes of explanation can beat
    the lie detector," says David Lykken, a retired psychologist
    from the University of Minnesota. "Anybody who is
    working as a spy has been taught how to beat the
    polygraph." The advertised techniques range from curling
    one's toes to biting one's tongue during control questions to
    mislead the examiner.

    Still, even critics of the polygraph acknowledge that it has
    led to admissions of guilt that they might not otherwise have
    gotten.

    "The polygraph itself functions as a prop more than anything
    else," says Aftergood. "Yet, there are cases every year in
    which the prop works."

    By Michael Stroh
    Sun Staff

    Captain Bob

    www.eatstress.com
    Last edited by CaptBob; 07-21-2005 at 11:03 PM.

  6. #56
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    I dont think that jacktee and wendy have been involved in too many entry level FF exams as of lately, seeing that the pool of canidates are only getting more qualified then they were years ago.

    Oral boards make the cream rise to the top and if I choosen to use Capt Bob on my first oral I would have passed it instead of being one of the 50% that didnt.

    Second oral board was quite different after using Capt Bob. He showed me a different way at preparing for the oral board that I didnt do the first time and now I'm in striking range of that badge instead of wondering why I wasnt considered for the job.

    Jacktee and Wendy are pretty much grasping at straws here and being naive and very immature. Did you guys even check out his material before labeling it or just going blind to the touch?
    Wendy they're plenty of other individuals on this website that need to be turned in cause of there wrong doing, GO GET EM BROTHER..

    anyways Bobs the man, he doesnt me to defend him, his reputation exceeds everything else.

    FFighterRob, what up?? lol nice to meet the legend...

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    Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, you are a pathetic soul.

    You compare your "tons of free stuff" to formal college level fire and rescue training? You compare your get-rich-quick scheme type of crap to formal certifications? Who in the world do you think you are talking to here? This is about as intellectually dishonest as it can be. If you are going to come here and debate, at least be friggin' prepared with something better than that.

    Your disdain for the polygraph has been widely known. Despite all of your citing of propaganda materials, your motivs here are transparent. You are coaching these kids to cheat. You publish one or two letters from peoplpe who failed a poly, yet there are hundreds of people every week who pass public safety polys and are hired-ostensibly w/o your help. Why? Because they told the truth. And telling the truth would be exactly the advice I would give anyone who asked me what to do with the polygraph.

    "Nothing matters until you have the badge" or whatever your mantra is, is a statement by you that the end justifies the means. You do whatever you have to do. Just don't get caught (DUI advice). That is tantamount to cheating.

    Your integrity shows in the way you treat these forums. There is explicit int he TOS a statement that says, in part:
    Any posts which ...include commercial messages...your Firehouse.com account may be terminated without warning.
    Yet you blantantly hawk your wares on thi site. I have no idea why the WT doesn't do something. Perhaps yo have a "wink-wink, nod-nod" agreement because you are a contributor, I don't know. But it is wrong. No one else is allowed to do it.

    100% money back guarantees don't mean squat. If a kid follows your unethical advice and gets booted from the process, getting the money back he wasted on your tapes and books is a hollow gesture.

    You are finding that there are many who feel as I do. You want to call me mean, go ahead, but I amm far from mean. Chip on my shoulder? Yup. When things are wrong. I call 'em as I see 'em. And if you are breaking the rules, I have a chip on my shoulder for you. And I have no intention of letting it rest.

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    Bravo George. And despite the parade of "satisfied" customers he is bringing out - including his own son - there are more and more people who are starting to question the service. I wonder if Bob ever had an oral interview for Battalion Chief? If so - he must have had problems.

    As it stands now I have completed my last post here. Cheers!
    Jacktee

    IACOJ

    "Insert quotation here."

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    I really don’t know what the motivation is for people to criticize others that they don’t know. Maybe jealousy?

    Lets agree on a few things. It appears this guy “George” would like everyone to know that Capt Bob sells stuff. He does. It’s a fact and you can now let it go because we all agree about that. Capt Bob says “George” follows him around. He does. In the last few days of reading posts here I find it comical, both the regularity of his postings after anything about or by Capt Bob, and the repetition of what he says. It’s just the same thing over and over. I really don’t know why Capt Bob even responds to him. We all have people that may not care for us. I prefer to ignore them. The opinion of a retired inspector from New Jersey that lives in this website is not an opinion in looking to help shape my life.

    Obviously Capt Bob is allowed to do what he does, because he still does. I am willing to bet that after every post Capt Bob has made this year, George has clicked upon the “Report this post to a moderator” button to report it.

    I asked the question above “ how can one be taken advantage of when there is a 100% money back grantee?” Well George explain how you make that allegation.

    Here is the funny thing about the B/C test. Capt Bob took it and acted for a while, but didn’t want the job. He and one other guy didn’t take the next test. Every one that did failed. So for a long time, until they could give another test, he was the only guy working as B/C on his shift.

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    Default Laughing way too much!

    Here is the funny thing about the B/C test. Capt Bob took it and acted for a while, but didn’t want the job.
    I said I would not comment anymore...but this is too much. That is a very rich answer - I mean the entire thing is ludicrous. What? He wanted it enough to take the test but then turned it down to concentrate on...motivation for others to pass written and oral tests. This has the makings of an excellent, 1200 word article. Priceless. Just priceless. Thank you ROB for that bit of information.
    Jacktee

    IACOJ

    "Insert quotation here."

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    Originally posted by JackTee09
    I wonder if Bob ever had an oral interview for Battalion Chief? If so - he must have had problems.
    WHAT? How can you make such a bogus statement when you
    have never meet or worked with the person?

    Making such false statements like this sure do less your creditbility and make you look more the fool.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 07-22-2005 at 12:19 PM.

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    WHAT? How can you make such a false statement when you have never meet the person?
    CAL:

    First - note the rolled eyes in my post - they are meant to convey emotion. I posed the question indicating that I did not know if he had ever had an interview. Then, and follow this closely, since he retired I made the leap of imagination that he must have had an interview but maybe had problems...since he never moved up. It could have been that he never wanted to move up-which is fine-lots of people don't move up. Then ROB posted a beaut of a statement and I commented on that - that is it. And ROB really posted a humdinger!!
    Jacktee

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    "Insert quotation here."

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    Originally posted by JackTee09
    I made the leap of imagination that he must have had an interview but maybe had problems...since he never moved up.
    Right there, you just backed up my statement again. You used
    your imagination. You really dont know. He says he has moved
    up and I believe him.

    As for the polygraph, I have never taken one. Am I a cheater?
    No. Do I want to sidestep the process? No. But I do want to
    do in prepared and have some info. on the process.

    I know of several candidates that have been screwed by
    over-zealous polygraphers. Sometimes the power goes to their
    head.

    Capt. Bob has helped me. He is a good person. The two of you
    attacking him in here errodes your credibility.

    And again, NONE of you have showed me any other websites out
    there to referance.

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    Default Yep

    It could have been that he never wanted to move up-which is fine-lots of people don't move up.

    That's true. No I didn't have problems taking the BC's test. I acted and worked in the position for 6 months when the regular BC had surgery. I didn't care for the position.

    ROB posted a beaut of a statement and I commented on that - that is it. And ROB really posted a humdinger!!

    Humdinger? Rob was right too. The department had a policy that if you failed the test you couldn't act. Even though I didn't take the next test, I had passed the previous one and was asked to fill in when needed.

    Captain Bob

    www.eatstress.com

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    Taking the test and not wanting the job is actually a fairly common practice on the west coast. It’s called keeping your options open and keeping your test taking skills sharp. I would say about 40% of the people that take the test in my department don’t take the job when offered. One guy took it and then self demoted back to captain a few years ago. It’s a totally different job. You’re not “one of the guys” any more, you’re “ one of them”.

    But, even though he didn’t take the job when offered, his experience at taking the test as well as the experience he gained while doing it, is why he is so successful at helping people get promoted to B/C, or even becoming chief. If you were wondering about his motivation, I would say he did it for the experience, and also so that he could better help people that were interested attain their goal of being B/C.

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    Capt. Bob,
    I understand where you are coming from and why you do what you do. I understand wanting to be prepared to take the poly. I myself took the time to do a little research to find out what happens. I don't even care if you are making a living by helping others. Horray for capitalism. But I do not like the scare tactic that you use. I have yet to see a post where you tell someone anything encouraging about going through the poly. I see horror story after horror story about this examiner being out to get you and how they are not your friend and all they want to do is fail you. That Sir is total BS. Your horror stories, I believe are isolated events. But I agree with you, canidates need to be prepared. But the website that you commonly refer people to advocates cheating and lying to get through it. Which begs the question, If Sir you believe in honesty throughout the whole process why would you refer anyone to a website that advocates such behavior. I understand that you are not affiliated with him but referal to said website implies full endorsement of his practices. I personally believe Polygrahs should go away. But they are the rules and we should abide by them, Fight to change them, but never break or cheat them.
    Instead of invoking fear and trepidation to sell stuff. Just tell teach them what it is all about. How it works and how to take the test. Don't tell them how to cheat. (or send them to someone who does.) I believe that it is wrong to do so. Personally when I posted on these forums that I got the call and I said I was not nervous at all about the poly, you replied with a horror story. I was not nervous but you made it sound like I should have been. I felt that it was the wrong approach. I felt like you were trying to scare me into purchasing your products. Not a viable buisness plan if you ask me. don't use horror stories but explain why canidates need to be prepared.

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    chrnea- I admit, I have only briefly viewed Capt. Bob's
    polygraph information.

    From I have read, he does not indicate any lying or cheating.
    I do think he trys to pass along "not creating land mines".
    The best example might be- Have you tried pot? Better to
    give a short and sweet answer of "Yes, once in high school
    and I didnt like it and havent since" than some long drama
    answer of 10-15 minutes.

    I might be wrong there, but thats what I got.

    I call them like I see them. If I thought Bob was dirty
    or selling snake oil, I would throw the flag. (I admit 5-6
    years ago, I cautious) He is not. I think he started
    helping out people and it just snowballed.

    Again, resources are limited out there and very, very few
    people are going to be giving stuff away for free or set up
    a website for FAQs. Do you know a better site?

    Thats just the way it is and I think people in here should
    stop attacking him or anyone else.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 07-22-2005 at 03:07 PM.

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    Again, resources are limited out there.
    Really? Resurces are so limited that there is no shortage of candidates who are hired without the help of a "guru"?



    Do you know a better site?
    Why? Does there need to be a website?

    Just because a site exists and others do not does not mean that it is valuable. Especially if it offers up questionable material.
    Jacktee

    IACOJ

    "Insert quotation here."

  19. #69
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    JackTee09- Ummmm, let me ask you something? Have you
    been testing for a job lately? Stood in line with
    thousands of other candidates?

    And if you do make it through a process, invested
    hundreds of dollars, only to fail out because of a
    mistake or comment made to a background investigator?

    Tell ya what, I have been there. Its expensive on both the
    wallet, brain and heart. You want the job, youre qualified
    and now you even have to complete with affirmative action.

    Its a rough field out there and brother, any help, "guru",
    website, phone call is worth it. BECAUSE IF YOURE NOT
    GETTING ANY HELP OR COACHING, YOUR COMPETETION IS.
    What proof? Here- http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=72064

    Professional sports, movie stars, executives, anything...
    Someone got some where because someone helped them.

    Now if you and George are the exception. More love to you.
    But trying to get a career Firefighter job in todays market
    is literaly like trying to win the lottery. You just have to
    make your own numbers line up.

    Lastly- Your last post was reaching. Please look around
    and get a real feel for the process out there. Ok?

    -Bou
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 07-22-2005 at 04:47 PM.

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    Originally posted by JackTee09



    Why? Does there need to be a website?
    Yes, there does. People have questions and need answers.
    Here is the proof right here-
    http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/for...s=&forumid=366

  21. #71
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    Ummmm, let me ask you something? Have you been testing for a job lately? Stood in line with thousands of other candidates?
    Yes - with my brothers son. He went through the procees - the entire process - and had to wait. He was never told to try and circumvent any step of the process nor was he advised at anytime that the bottom line was the badge-even for the sake of honor. He did this in a large city many miles away and was appointed. The pride that we feel for him was in his belief that the job he wanted to do was an honorable job, a noble endeavour, not something to be "had" but something to aspire to - so in defending Captain Bobby don't mistake that there are many people out here who counsel young people - but do so with the spirit of the service in mind.

    We all read daily about firefighters who have gone bad in a hurry - how many do you think might have approached the fire service with the goal - All that matters is the badge!

    Revolting.
    Jacktee

    IACOJ

    "Insert quotation here."

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    Thats great...for him. Did he get a job on the very first
    try? If he did, that happens like 1 out of 2000 times.

    Now what about YOU? Have you ever been in the process?
    Competed for a job? A CPAT, oral, agility, background,
    medical, etc. Its a lot of work. And to do all of that
    and get your teeth kicked in is hard.

    All for the badge? Bob has explained his theroy before
    and I buy into it because I have heard all the stories
    from the candidates. From "I got this to I got that.
    I know Chief XXX and so and so. I am a 3rd generation
    Firefighter but not really employeed, etc..."

    The stories are nice, but the candidates cant deliver
    the total package to get tired. Sure they have the drama
    part down.

    And, have YOU ever heard ME tell anyone to lie or cheat
    to get anything in here? No. I only direct people where
    to go to find answers I cant give on my own.

    Please dont attack me in here now. Much like my profession,
    I am only here to help.

    -Bou

  23. #73
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    Have you ever been in the process?
    Yes

    Competed for a job? A CPAT, oral, agility, background, medical
    Yes

    Its a lot of work.
    Indeed.

    And to do all of that and get your teeth kicked in is hard
    So you advocate a 100% success rate for EVERY CANDIDATE? Anyone can come on the job - theives, arsonists? All because they worked hard and shouldn't be kicked in the teeth by a process?

    And, have YOU ever heard ME tell anyone to lie or cheat
    No. Have I accused of any of that? Or have I questioned some of the approaches that your Cap'n Bobby would have people take? You took exception to what was being put to him - you choose to give reasons that he himself cannot give. So, don't infer anyone is attacking you because I know I AM NOT. It's all about the so called service Cap'n Bobby is offering - and when I stop talking about it someone else will-because unknown to you there are more than a handful of people who question the approach that Bobby takes.

    Now pass the soda - these pretzels are making me thirsty!
    Last edited by JackTee09; 07-22-2005 at 06:00 PM.
    Jacktee

    IACOJ

    "Insert quotation here."

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    Let's get a couple of things straight.

    1. I NEVER questioned that Bobby is a good guy. I NEVER questioned his fire fighting knowledge or ability, or his ability to manage people.

    2. I NEVER criticized Bobby for running a business. Capitalism is a wonderful thing. I have a side business and I would recommend it for all of you. What I criticize is his constantly flouting the TOS by direct marketing his wares on this site. As I said, I cannot explain why the WT chooses to ignore this.

    3. I also believe that some of the advice the offers young candidates is unethical and borderline dihonest. I have clearly explained myself on this and I am not going to do this again.

    4. I certainly do not "follow" Bobby aroind. If you took notice, most of my 5000 posts are right here on this forum. I also post on the Inspections and Investigations forum and the Volunteer forum. To my knowledge the only place that I have engagaed Bobby is right here. That hardly constitutes following him around.

    5. Yes. Every time he markets his wares, I repot it to the WT. If I didn't, I would have no right to bitch about him.

    6. I have never been a fier inspector. I would also most certainly agree that you shuoldn't base the way you live your life on the opinions of a bald, fat, old, ugly retired fire investigator from North Jersey.

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    Oral boards make the cream rise to the top and if I choosen to use Capt Bob on my first oral I would have passed it instead of being one of the 50% that didnt.
    Interesting comment. Does this mean you weren't qualified for the job until reading his free advice? And that somehow, reading someones website now makes you a better qualified firefighter?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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