Thread: Reading Smoke

  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    92

    Cool Reading Smoke

    The VES posting here briefly discussed brown smoke as being the structural members burning. Anyone have any other input on reading smoke before entering a building?

    Mark

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    100

    Default Reading Smoke

    Get the book from Dave Dodson or more information.

    His class "Reading Smoke" was one of the best that I have taken in my 28 year career.

    His website is:

    Response Solutions, LLc
    P.O. Box 1225
    Eastlake, CO 80614-1225
    email: davedodson@RespondSafe.com
    (303) 912-1201
    WWW.RESPONDSAFE.COM

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    195

    Default He has a book?

    I didn't realize Dodson had a book...I've heard good things about his program, though...also, Firefighterclosecalls.com has one of his reading smoke downloads....

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    www.firefighterclosecalls.com has a great powerpoint presentation on reading smoke that is downloadable.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    51

    Default

    I agree...we hosted him here and had an excellent turnout (I would guess that we had about 100 people from 10-15 departments). Some of the best training we have had in some time.

    He spends a lot of time on fire dynamics and then ties it to the "reading smoke" with cause and effect. I learned quite a bit.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    sbfdco1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    ><(((*>
    Posts
    556

    Default Re: Reading Smoke

    Originally posted by bummer
    Get the book from Dave Dodson or more information.

    His class "Reading Smoke" was one of the best that I have taken in my 28 year career.

    His website is:

    Response Solutions, LLc
    P.O. Box 1225
    Eastlake, CO 80614-1225
    email: davedodson@RespondSafe.com
    (303) 912-1201
    WWW.RESPONDSAFE.COM
    I e-mail Chief Dodson last week, took him only a day to respond. He also sent me an "primer" article he wrote titled "The Art of Reading Smoke." It will apprear in the September issue of Fire Engineering.
    Jim
    Firefighter/EMT
    IACOJ
    ftm-ptb-rfb-egh-ktf-dtrt!

    September 11, 2001 - NEVER FORGET!

    BETTER TO DIE ON YOUR FEET THAN LIVE ON YOUR KNEES!

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    195

    Default Book

    Does Dodson't Book "Incident Safety Officer" have info on reading smoke?

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Emmetsburg, IA
    Posts
    95

    Default

    I took a very good "Art of Reading Smoke" class a few years ago (Iowa Fire Service Training Bureau's Summer Fire School). The biggest thing I got out of it was that the thicker the smoke is and the more forcefully it's being expelled from the building, the closer you're getting to flashover. Maybe that's old stuff to you guys, but at the time I was pretty new to the fire service and gained a lot from that class.

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    92

    Cool Reading Smoke Info

    Thanks to everyone who posted where to find additional info on reading smoke. I also emailed Dave Dodson, and he replied with his Fire Engineering article. Not sure if this info is in his command book.

    Often times on these forums people send links to additional info. My intention of this posting was to stimulate discussion about the subject. What are you thinking about when you are pulling-up and the building is pushing smoke? Does your company even care about the color and volume of smoke to determined defensive or offensive? Is vertical ventilation required before entry?

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    3,095

    Default

    I'm not sure I would assume or decline any particular actions based only on the color of smoke. In 1925 that might have worked, but now there are so many synthetics & weird materials, there's no way to know that there's just one thing producing some one color of smoke.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  11. #11
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    When I went through the Academy in 1982 (damn..that was an eternity ago!), we did a day of flammable liquid burns at the old Fort Devens Annex fire training pits. The fuel for the burns was contaminated JP4

    All of us in the class were expecting clouds of thick black smoke that a hydrocarbon fire would produce. The smoke from the contaminated fuel was a "greenish purple" color...

    Chemical fires also produce an entire rainbow of colors when they burn, so if the color of the smoke is something out of the ordinary, you know you are dealing with with some potentially nasty stuff...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Never much cared for brown/brownish yellow smoke.Seen too many FF's "blown up"if they chose to enter without venting first.One of my more memorable career moments was watching a AC approach a 2 story farmhouse belching brown/yellow from every front window.The next thing I saw was the AC rocketing along the snow in the front yard,on his BA with the now detached front door in hand.No lasting injuries but a sight I'll remember and chuckle over as long as I live.Only "green"(yellow/green)smoke I ever saw was chlorine and that wasn't too enjoyable either. T.C.

  13. #13
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1

    Default Smoke Color

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    I'm not sure I would assume or decline any particular actions based only on the color of smoke. In 1925 that might have worked, but now there are so many synthetics & weird materials, there's no way to know that there's just one thing producing some one color of smoke.

    I have to agree. I do not agree with the comments that white smoke is an indicator that conditions are too lean, and that dark smoke is an indicator of conditions that are too rich. Nearly all substances give off white smoke when they pyrolyse and this is laden with unburnt fuel and can be deceptively dangerous! Dark smoke is often rich in unburnt fuel but it depends a lot on how efficient the combustion process and the fuel package.
    I am also not sure about how scientific the smoke filtering concepts is. Soot will deposit readily on surfaces, but in my experience it has little impact on the color. It may reduce the thickness (optical density) but it will still be black. Either way I believe that it is incorrect (and possibly dangerous) to relate smoke color to flammability range.
    Laminar or turbulent flows depend on a number of factors and are more a function of the size and location of the openings in relation to the stage of fire development.
    Interpreting fire indicators is a vital skill, but it needs to be supported by science and fact and to stay away from myths.

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,630

    Default

    There is also some stuff by Dodson on You-Tube.

    They are sorta short, 2-3 5-10 minute clips, but they make for good viewing and are a nice way to change pace if you want to teach a class on reading smoke to your members.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,526

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer1801 View Post
    I have to agree. I do not agree with the comments that white smoke is an indicator that conditions are too lean, and that dark smoke is an indicator of conditions that are too rich. Nearly all substances give off white smoke when they pyrolyse and this is laden with unburnt fuel and can be deceptively dangerous! Dark smoke is often rich in unburnt fuel but it depends a lot on how efficient the combustion process and the fuel package.
    I am also not sure about how scientific the smoke filtering concepts is. Soot will deposit readily on surfaces, but in my experience it has little impact on the color. It may reduce the thickness (optical density) but it will still be black. Either way I believe that it is incorrect (and possibly dangerous) to relate smoke color to flammability range.
    Laminar or turbulent flows depend on a number of factors and are more a function of the size and location of the openings in relation to the stage of fire development.
    Interpreting fire indicators is a vital skill, but it needs to be supported by science and fact and to stay away from myths.
    Are you planning on waiting an equal amount of time for his reply?
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sibley,Il.
    Posts
    106

    Default

    for those above that have not taken dobsons class do so before judging it to be wrong. and for the fellow that started the thread dobson has a two video training package out we use a lot. try it. i have beeen in the fire service since 1972 chief since 1990 i sat thru daves class 5 yrs ago and have used his information for our dept ever since.
    Randy Meyer Chief S.T.F.P.D.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    N.W. Iowa
    Posts
    196

    Default

    I agree with everyone that believes Dave D. class is great. I have taken the course twice over the last five years and truly believe it is one the best courses I have had at our regional fire schools here in NW Iowa.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register