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  1. #1
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default Rove

    Did he do it? If he did, should he go? Should he be indicted? Anyone else enjoy watching Scott McClellan squirm? Serious replies only !
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    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    I am a very strong Republican, not really a strong Conservative; there is a big difference. I think that he very well could have only confirmed a suspicion, and not have know/realized that her position was covert. Remember that he is a campaign man, not a policy guy. He was lucky in 2002 and 2004 to be able to pull off the national campaign that tore up the party and the country. He is great for local/state, but very irresponsible on the national stage.



    Just wait though, if there is anything on him, Duke Cunningham will be thrown to the wolves to distract attention. Have you followed his case at all?
    Last edited by DennisTheMenace; 07-13-2005 at 02:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    MembersZone Subscriber RoughRider's Avatar
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    Didn’t Valerie Plame have a desk job at Langely?? Not some covert position. Read today’s article in the WSJ pg A4 and let me know what you think? Was Wilson recommended by his wife for the CIA job and not Cheney? If so, that would make Wilson a fraud and liar? It’s going to be interesting how this plays out.
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    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RoughRider
    Didn’t Valerie Plame have a desk job at Langely?? Not some covert position. Read today’s article in the WSJ pg A4 and let me know what you think? Was Wilson recommended by his wife for the CIA job and not Cheney? If so, that would make Wilson a fraud and liar? It’s going to be interesting how this plays out.
    When she was overseas with her husband she had a true covert position. EVERYONE has what amounts to desk jobs at Langley(really it is McLean, VA ) when they are not in the field.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    What has Rove done? are we talking about the same Rove - Rove McManus, the easily the biggest star on Australian TV?
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

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    Forum Member PattyV's Avatar
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    Thats what i was thinking at first as well Though i would have to say that Eddie MacGuire is the most famous (i reckon he is even the guy in the Humphrey Bear suit)

    When i saw the topic's title i was wondering what someone was doing posting anything baout him here.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    This letter from former operatives should answer the desk job talking point.


    18 July 2005
    AN OPEN STATEMENT TO THE LEADERS OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF
    REPRESENTATIVES AND THE SENATE.
    The Honorable Dennis Hastert, Speaker, U.S. House of Representatives
    The Honorable Nancy Pelosi, Minority Leader, U.S. House of Representatives
    The Honorable Dr. William Frist, Majority Leader of the Senate
    The Honorable Harry Reid, Minority Leader of the Senate

    We, the undersigned former U.S. intelligence officers are concerned with the
    tone and substance of the public debate over the ongoing Department of
    Justice investigation into who leaked the name of Valerie Plame, wife of
    former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson IV, to syndicated columnist Robert
    Novak and other members of the media, which exposed her status as an
    undercover CIA officer. The disclosure of Ms. Plame’s name was a shameful
    event in American history and, in our professional judgment, may have
    damaged U.S. national security and poses a threat to the ability of U.S.
    intelligence gathering using human sources. Any breach of the code of
    confidentiality and cover weakens the overall fabric of intelligence, and,
    directly or indirectly, jeopardizes the work and safety of intelligence workers
    and their sources.

    The Republican National Committee has circulated talking points to
    supporters to use as part of a coordinated strategy to discredit Ambassador Joseph Wilson
    and his wife. As part of this campaign a common theme is
    the idea that Ambassador Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame was not undercover
    and deserved no protection. The following are four recent examples of this
    “talking point”:

    Michael Medved stated on Larry King Live on July 12, 2005, “And let's
    be honest about this. Mrs. Plame, Mrs. Wilson, had a desk job
    at Langley. She went back and forth every single day.”

    Victoria Toensing stated on a Fox News program with John Gibson on
    July 12, 2005 that, “Well, they weren't taking affirmative
    measures to protect that identity. They gave her a desk job in
    Langley. You don't really have somebody deep undercover
    going back and forth to Langley, where people can see them.”

    Ed Rodgers, Washington Lobbyist and former Republican official, said
    on July 13, 2005 on the Newshour with Jim Lehrer, “And also I think
    it is now a matter of established fact that Mrs. Plame was not a
    protected covert agent, and I don't think there's any
    meaningful investigation about that.”

    House majority whip Roy Blunt (R, Mo), on Face the Nation, July 17,
    2005, “It certainly wouldn't be the first time that the CIA might
    have been overzealous in sort of maintaining the kind of topsecret
    definition on things longer than they needed to. You
    know, this was a job that the ambassador's wife had that she
    went to every day. It was a desk job. I think many people in
    Washington understood that her employment was at the CIA,
    and she went to that office every day.”

    These comments reveal an astonishing ignorance of the intelligence
    community and the role of cover. The fact is that there are thousands of
    U.S. intelligence officers who “work at a desk” in the Washington, D.C. area
    every day who are undercover. Some have official cover, and some have
    non-official cover. Both classes of cover must and should be protected.
    While we are pleased that the U.S. Department of Justice is conducting an
    investigation and that the U.S. Attorney General has recused himself, we
    believe that the partisan attacks against Valerie Plame are sending a deeply
    discouraging message to the men and women who have agreed to work
    undercover for their nation’s security.

    We are not lawyers and are not qualified to determine whether the leakers
    technically violated the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act. However,
    we are confident that Valerie Plame was working in a cover status and that
    our nation’s leaders, regardless of political party, have a duty to protect all
    intelligence officers. We believe it is appropriate for the President to move
    proactively to dismiss from office or administratively punish any official who
    participated in any way in revealing Valerie Plame's status. Such an act by
    the President would send an unambiguous message that leaks of this nature
    will not be tolerated and would be consistent with his duties as the
    Commander-in-Chief.

    We also believe it is important that Congress speak with one non-partisan
    voice on this issue. Intelligence officers should not be used as political
    footballs. In the case of Valerie Plame, she still works for the CIA and is not
    in a position to publicly defend her reputation and honor. We stand in her
    stead and ask that Republicans and Democrats honor her service to her
    country and stop the campaign of disparagement and innuendo aimed at
    discrediting Mrs. Wilson and her husband.

    Our friends and colleagues have difficult jobs gathering the intelligence,
    which helps, for example, to prevent terrorist attacks against Americans at
    home and abroad. They sometimes face great personal risk and must spend
    long hours away from family and friends. They serve because they love this
    country and are committed to protecting it from threats from abroad and to
    defending the principles of liberty and freedom. They do not expect public
    acknowledgement for their work, but they do expect and deserve their
    government’s protection of their covert status.

    For the good of our country, we ask you to please stand up for every man
    and woman who works for the U.S. intelligence community and help protect
    their ability to live their cover.
    Sincerely yours,
    ______________________________ _______
    Larry C. Johnson, former Analyst, CIA
    JOINED BY:
    Mr. Brent Cavan, former Analyst, CIA
    Mr. Vince Cannistraro, former Case Officer, CIA
    Mr. Michael Grimaldi, former Analyst, CIA
    Mr. Mel Goodman, former senior Analyst, CIA
    Col. W. Patrick Lang (US Army retired), former Director, Defense Humint
    Services, DIA
    Mr. David MacMichael, former senior estimates officer, National Intelligence
    Council, CIA
    Mr. James Marcinkowski, former Case Officer, CIA
    Mr. Ray McGovern, former senior Analyst and PDB Briefer, CIA
    Mr. Jim Smith, former Case Officer, CIA
    Mr. William C. Wagner, former Case Officer, CIA


    Not that I'm surprised at how quickly the RNC throws one of its own in front of the bus. As stated, the RNC talking points are bashing Ms. Plame knowing full well her position doesn't allow her to defend herself. I'm glad I'm not a covert operative if this is how quick they throw someone out into the open.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rove

    Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    Did he do it? If he did, should he go? Should he be indicted? Anyone else enjoy watching Scott McClellan squirm? Serious replies only !
    What I would like to know is when conservatives are going to demand an apology from McClellan ala Rather and Newsweek.

    On July 22, 2003, White House spokesman Scott McClellan denied any White House role in the Plame leak. “I’m telling you flatly that this is not the way this White House operates,” McClellan said at a press briefing.

    We know that is not true. We know the White House was involved in the leak. Criminality is another issue. But certainly an apology to someone is in order.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Originally posted by scfire86
    Not that I'm surprised at how quickly the RNC throws one of its own in front of the bus. As stated, the RNC talking points are bashing Ms. Plame knowing full well her position doesn't allow her to defend herself. I'm glad I'm not a covert operative if this is how quick they throw someone out into the open.
    The problem has never been Mrs. Wilson, it has been Mr. Wilson. If he had a problem witht the President's State of the union address he should have done something real about it then, instead he waited six months when he was looking for a book deal. He is the one that really outted his wife, the others just put it in print first.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Rove

    Originally posted by scfire86


    What I would like to know is when conservatives are going to demand an apology from McClellan ala Rather and Newsweek.

    On July 22, 2003, White House spokesman Scott McClellan denied any White House role in the Plame leak. “I’m telling you flatly that this is not the way this White House operates,” McClellan said at a press briefing.

    We know that is not true. We know the White House was involved in the leak. Criminality is another issue. But certainly an apology to someone is in order.
    All we know is that at somepoint Rove spoke to reporters about her, reporters that apparently already knew something was up with her. I would like Rove gone because he is a distraction, but your arguement against the Administartion is still without evidence.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Default Re: Re: Re: Rove

    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    All we know is that at somepoint Rove spoke to reporters about her, reporters that apparently already knew something was up with her. I would like Rove gone because he is a distraction, but your arguement against the Administartion is still without evidence.
    Not only that, but Rove did not initiate the call, reported it to the DOJ immediately and told the reporter not to go with it.

    Yeah, throw him in prison for life.

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


    Not only that, but Rove did not initiate the call, reported it to the DOJ immediately and told the reporter not to go with it.

    Yeah, throw him in prison for life.

    So what if he didn't initiate the call! The leak came from somewhere within the White House.

    What did Rove mean when he stated that Wilson's wife was 'fair game'?

    Someone (possibly Rove) leaked a covert agent's name.

    It still doesn't go to the the issue that McClellan stated the WH was not involved when it clearly was involved.

    But wait, let's look back to a previous post on a different thread that asked us to put things in perspective:


    Originally posted by E40FDNYL35 ...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation. We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records. It took less time for! the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman.
    Apparently that now applies to the infamous leaker of the 'outing' of a covert agent. The process has now been going on almost two years.
    Last edited by scfire86; 07-22-2005 at 07:28 PM.
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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    The investigation shifts to perjury.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Ex CIA Officers rip Bush over Rove leak

    I especially liked the part at the end.

    Patrick Lang, a retired Army colonel and defense intelligence officer, said Bush's silence sends a bad signal to foreigners who might be thinking of cooperating with the U.S. on intelligence matters.

    "This says to them that if you decide to cooperate, someone will give you up, so you don't do it," Lang said. "They are not going to trust you in any way."

    Johnson, who said he is a registered Republican, said he wished a GOP lawmaker would have the courage to stand up and "call the ugly dog the ugly dog."

    "Where are these men and women with any integrity to speak out against this?" Johnson asked. "I expect better behavior out of Republicans."


    He may expect better behavior out of Republicans. But I don't. Their behavior on this matter is exactly what I expected.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    He may expect better behavior out of Republicans. But I don't. Their behavior on this matter is exactly what I expected.
    But, hey; what do you expect from people who still think Nixon was a hero?

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    "But regardless of the source, the leak compromised the confidential identity of a longtime public servant, which was wrong, and unfair to her and those who worked with her. Whoever did it should come forward and not hide behind journalistic ethics for his or her self-protection."
    --- Karen Hughes Ten Minutes from Normal

    I wonder if her views have changed now that the source points right to her good buddies from Texas?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    MembersZone Subscriber RoughRider's Avatar
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    We know that is not true. We know the White House was involved in the leak. Criminality is another issue. But certainly an apology to someone is in order.
    SC you keep saying "WE ALL KNOW" or "EVERYBODY KNOWS" in this thread and the one you started.

    WE DONT KNOW..... This situation has been going on for two years. If it was a crime or some sort of egregious offense it would have been wrapped packaged and done by now. Here are some other facts that you will not read in the NY TIMES which has already is on record saying the charges have no merit.


    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...1/170318.shtml

    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...8/224504.shtml

    http://www.nationalreview.com/mccart...0507180801.asp

    http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2005/cyb20050719.asp#5

    http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8450


    http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...rticle_id=4656

    http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn...t-steyn17.html

    http://slate.msn.com/id/2122963/

    I still feel if he broke the law he should be prosecuted.

    If you agree that he should be prosecuted check out this article.

    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...6/101413.shtml
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

    The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter!! Either side of the hill.


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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RoughRider


    SC you keep saying "WE ALL KNOW" or "EVERYBODY KNOWS" in this thread and the one you started.

    WE DONT KNOW..... This situation has been going on for two years. If it was a crime or some sort of egregious offense it would have been wrapped packaged and done by now. Here are some other facts that you will not read in the NY TIMES which has already is on record saying the charges have no merit.
    RR. Illegality is a seperate issue. Yes the process has been going for two years. Did you ever think to ask yourself why? We know the leak came from the WH. How hard would it be to ask all the staff point blank "are you the leaker?". There aren't that many people there that it couldn't have been done in a couple of weeks. Maybe a couple of months. Remember, this was the group that was going to bring 'honor and integrity' to the WH. Someone inside that organization hasn't acted with 'honor and integrity'. Wouldn't you agree?

    Criminality aside. Do you believe leaking her name is just plain WRONG????

    And don't use Newsmax as a reliable source. They've been discredited on more than one occasion.

    Here is an example.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    MembersZone Subscriber RoughRider's Avatar
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    SC

    Did you ever think to ask yourself why?
    Sure, politics. Some people are blinded by hatred and will say and do anything to try to destroy the current leadership. Both parties are guilty of this.

    How hard would it be to ask all the staff point blank "are you the leaker?".
    Didn’t Rove deny he leaked her name to a Grand Jury??

    Someone inside that organization hasn't acted with 'honor and integrity'. Wouldn't you agree?
    There's no illegality here. They are after him because they see a partisan opening, a partisan opportunity. Nothing was proven either way.

    Criminality aside. Do you believe leaking her name is just plain WRONG????

    She worked for the CIA. Her "covert" status has not been established or proven. I don’t know? I will say that if an agent is ever outed and put in harms way they should be prosecuted.

    And don't use Newsmax as a reliable source. They've been discredited on more than one occasion.
    I read and use many sources to keep apprised of current events including the biased majors like the LA Times, NY Times etc. They all are guilty of printing mistakes and half truths to promote an agenda. Remember Blair from the NY Times.

    We as readers have to try to filter out the flotsam and jetsam.

    If Rove committed a crime he should be fired and prosecuted
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

    The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter!! Either side of the hill.


    IACOJ PROUD

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    He apparently doesn't want you to use NewsMax because they have been "discredited"? You mean just like that liberal rag NYT?

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