1. #1
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    Default Are Firefighters Better Citizens?

    Firefighters may not be a priveleged class of citizen but maybe they should be! When I think of all the FF's I've known over the years, I cant think of a better class of people I would like to have as neighbors and friends. I would like the Mayor, Congressman, Senator to be firefighters. Our neighborhoods would be safer and civic responsibility would be at an all time high. Bull---- fire calls would be unheard of! Everyones kids would be raised with respect for people and property. People would watch out for other peoples kids and property. When I look at all the problems of todays society, I bet 90 percent of those problems would not exist if everyone was a firefighter or at least thought like one.
    OK... I'm off the soap box now.

    God bless and pull the ceiling as you go.

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    Default ARE FIREFIGHTERS BETTER CITIZENS?

    I GOT ON TO THIS SUBJECT ON ANOTHER THREAD SO I MOVED IT HERE. (I brought the replies over too)
    -------------------
    -from Bones 42:
    CAPPY, just curious, have you missed all the articles on here about FF's being arsonists, being involved with child molestation, stealing, DUI's, fighting, etc?

    PS - My town Mayor is a firefighter. Hasn't made a damn difference in the safety of the town, that takes a good PD and good public education, not a politician.

    PSS - FF's should not be a priveleged class, but they should be held to a higher standard.
    ------------------
    -from GeorgeWendt:
    Things are a little different in Cappys world.

    That is the root of misconduct by public officials...thinking you are better than the people you serve.

    BTW, if 9-% of the people were FF, there would be a lot more criminal FF, sex offender FF, arsonist FF, gang member FF, etc.

    Just please tell us you were kidding with this post.
    --------------------
    -from EFD840:
    Cappy, please explain how you think having a firefighter as mayor can cause an increase in civic responsibility, stop BS fire calls, or cause kids to act right.

    I really need to know. I'm a firefighter. I'm also the mayor of my town and yet I still run BS calls, have a hard time recruiting folks for committes, and unruly kids make up a huge percentage of our crime problems. Apparently, I have no idea what I'm doing so please show me the error of my ways.
    Last edited by CAPPYY; 07-21-2005 at 02:26 AM.

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    NOPE, NOT KIDDING!
    Yes, sadly I have seen the articles about firefighters and crime and no, I dont believe in priviledged classes (poor wording on my part). But I do believe that when you compare firefighters to the rest of society, firefighters are superior.

    Superior attitudes about their communities, families, duty, honor, and country.

    If the mayor, all the citizens and the town council were firefighters, I think it would be a hell of a town. I bet you a new pick axe that if you looked at the percentages of crimes commited by ff vs crimes commited by the rest of society, you would find that firefighters as a whole have a much lower ratio. Firefighters are better citizens!

    AHH Georgie???
    Quote: BTW, if 90% of the people were FF, there would be a lot more criminal FF, sex offender FF, arsonist FF, gang member FF, etc.
    -----------------------
    IF 90 Percent of the people were teachers, there would be more teacher crime.
    Doctors-doctors crime
    Printers-printers crime

    DUH-No Kidding! Expected better from you.

    God bless and pull the ceiling as you go.

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    Firefighters aren't necessarily better citizens, but citizens would be better if they would volunteer. I don't care if they volunteer to be firefighters or not, though it would be nice to have more dept. members, they just need to volunteer! I think I get CAPPYY's point...as citizens of the United States, and residents of our municipalities, we have a civic responsibility to contribute. As firefighters, we are making our contribution to society. Does that make us special? In some ways, yes! It takes a unique kind of person to be a firefighter...we all know that. Does that mean that we should get special treatment? ABSOLUTELY NOT! It just means that we should set an example for all those people who don't care. The world is full of people who have the mentality that the world owes them something. Part of the reason it takes a special person to be a firefighter is because it is a sometimes thankless job, and it takes a person who is not concerned with status or public recognition to do it (to do it well anyway). If firefighters had the mentality that they were owed something for the job that they do, then our profession would not be so widely recognized by the public as one of the best and most elite. Sure, there are people who hate firefighters, but kids don't grow up wanting to be this, that, and the other, do they? They want to be firefighters ... to me that is special.

    To the guy who is a volly firefighter and mayor of his town...that actually happens quite often around here. I think if research were to be done on firefighters, that it would find that they tend to be more civic-minded overall. In our small towns, your firefighters are the same people who serve on town council, and who are members of the Lions Club and a score of other civic groups, and they're the people who will help anyone out of any bad situation if they possibly can.

    I can see the points that others have made too...you are not better just because you're a firefighter, but I do think that (in most cases) people become firefighters b/c there is just something about them, maybe a feeling of civic pride or duty, that makes them want to make a difference...whether it is conscious or unconscious. Now, do they have that civic-mindedness because they are better? That is a matter of opinion, but I ask, can a person who cares about no one but himself be considered one of the "better" people in the world? Does everyone who cares about others, displays selflessness, and is one of the "better" people become a firefighter? No. Some become police officers, doctors, EMT's or Paramedics, you name it...I'll point out that in the fire service we don't, unless there is something really wrong there, knowingly hire, or allow to volunteer, the people who definitely aren't considered "better" and who don't care about their neighbors...like criminals.

    I'm not sure if any of that makes any sense to anyone else, not even sure if it'll make sense to me after a few hours of sleep, but it does right now so I'll go with it.
    Last edited by Co11FireGal; 07-21-2005 at 04:10 AM.
    IACOJ

    "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap it if we do not lose heart."

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    AHH Georgie???
    Quote: BTW, if 90% of the people were FF, there would be a lot more criminal FF, sex offender FF, arsonist FF, gang member FF, etc.
    -----------------------
    IF 90 Percent of the people were teachers, there would be more teacher crime.
    Doctors-doctors crime
    Printers-printers crime

    DUH-No Kidding! Expected better from you.
    Expected better of me? I expected better from you than to suggest that fire fighters are a priveleged class of citizen (yeah, I know you wish you didn't say it).

    You conveniently left this part of my post out.
    That is the root of misconduct by public officials...thinking you are better than the people you serve.
    That is the point. The rest is stating the obvious.

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    Another reason that we (FF's) are not a priveleged class As I said above, we should hold ourselves (FF's) to higher standards before we worry about being "priveleged" citizens.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    No offense cappy but i think you have the equation wrong. It seems to be:

    Good person + civic duty = firefighter

    You can't, unfortunately, reverse this and say that by making people fireifhgters it will make them good people and instill them with a duty to their town/city/place of habitation.

    Like someone commented above -- if you make people firefighters we're just going to have more problems and a lower standard.

    Good people make good firefighters, making someone a firefighter doesn't make them a good person.

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    Yeah - George is right.

    And Adam has it right as well:

    Good people make good firefighters, making someone a firefighter doesn't make them a good person.
    Jacktee

    IACOJ

    "Insert quotation here."

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    That is a nice thought CAPPYY, and it's too bad it can't work that way. Unfortunately, most people just don't "get it." We've probably all had some of these people on our departments, and it usually turns out to be just another place for them to be a dissappointment. They join up, and all the members are taking them under their wings, bringing them along as we call it, but in a short time, you can tell if the person is going to be an asset, or a wizbang. Assets get the treatment, and wizbangs eventually get the boot. In our department, it turns out to be maybe 1 out of ten new members that ends up being an asset, the others; wizbangs.

    If it worked like you're saying, we would not be in such a pinch for volunteers.
    There goes the neighborhood.

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    Co11FireGal-
    It is so nice to read the words of someone who knows how to use those words and who puts it so eloquently, something I'm not very good at.

    I see where they want to give firefighters a special tax exemption or tax writeoff for volunteering their time. Ahh-maybe this is the first step in making us priviledged citizens! (OOPs Georgie, I said it again).

    I've known many different firefighters over the years and of course they each have their own personality but over all they are amoung the best citizens of their town. I do think you can reverse that equation listed by adamkalil because anyone who sticks with all the time, effort, training and sacrifice it takes to be a firefighter equals a good person who is civic minded. As a recent President of the US of A put it, these people are "points of light".

    God bless and pull the ceiling as you go.

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    No,but it might start them on the road to being a good person.
    Still,I think it is mostly folks that have a proper uprbringing in respect for elders,etc that join the fire service.

    Originally posted by adamkhalil


    Good people make good firefighters, making someone a firefighter doesn't make them a good person. [/B]

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    We are no better than the rest of the population. Dont put us on a pedastal, because there is only one way to go from there.
    Last edited by ewelk33; 07-22-2005 at 06:31 PM.

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