Certification-mania

[SpartanGuy]

I totally agree with you. I know certificates don't make a firefighter, I was just commenting that not everyone who hangs their stuff up is a glory boy wacker

[spyonline]

So who should you be upset with?

The FF accepting the half *** cert

The instructor giving out the half *** cert

Or the dept. sending him/her to the half *** cert. class

[JackTee09]

So who should you be upset with?

That is a great question.

What's your take Spyonline?

[spyonline]

All three should be held responsible. To who? I'm sure that will come out in the field.

[JackTee09]

In every learning situation there will always be those who are "book smart".

Thats not what I am getting at here. Most of the guys who go all out to gain certifications as quickly as possible don't retain the information. It has nothing to do with "smarts".

So because a few get a lot of certifications and don't know what they are doing we condemn the whole system.

Is that what happens?

[CAPPYY]

My 2 cents...

The most certified fire/rescue/emt I have ever known in all my years on the job and the dumbest, freelancin, get everybody killed guy I ever met were one in the same!


God bless and pull the ceiling as you go.

[PFDTruck2]

I know a guy who goes to every class or on-line seminar to get every cert. available, but as soon as the tones drop he's not to be found.

[THEFIRENUT]

This is a very interesting discussion. If you meet someone who has a "collection" of "certs", but not the smarts to back it up,you might place everyone that has "certs" into one group. Instead, lets put everyone that says that he/she can do the job(with or without the "certs"), but doesn't, in one group.

I do like the idea of having a paper trail of the training that one has had. When going from one dept. to another, it gives them an idea on what has been taught to that individual. But still the individual must show what he/she still knows about their past training.

All in all, I think that having "certs" is a good idea as long as they are followed by the appropriate actions. Just MHO.

[wvfd05]

I would agree with the statement that a certificate hanging on the wall that required no demonstration of skills learned isn't the ideal situation. I think that someone has already mentioned that the training system be re-styled to a combination of practical hands-on applications as well as classroom lectures and a test at the end of the class to achieve a certificate.

This type of training would do two things,

1) It would be a confidence builder to the trainees to perform the skills learned,

2) "Certificate Only" firefighters would pretty much be eliminated through testing and demonstration.

[snowball]

I have a few certs, I prefer "Lifesavers"

Seriously, when I take a class, it is to advance my education status so I can achieve that elusive AA degree. I have made it a rule to take what I'm taught in a class with a grain of salt. I say this because in the 14+ years on the job I have rarely used any of the "filler" that is taught beyond the basics.
I have to admit though, most of the classes I have attended recently, a guy could sleep through most of it and still recieve a cert because you paid for the class.

[HeavyRescueTech]

So your saying people should only get the minimums, and then wait and hope they get the experience to use it in the field?

like, just get FF1, and blow off all those other "worthless" certs? skip the con-ed stuff, it's just a way to stroke one's ego? yeah, who needs courses in EMS, motor vehicle extrication, hazmat, ICS, those who get those courses are just trying to make themselves justify to the world that they are real firefighters? after all, you would never need any formal training on that stuff, right? you can just get the basics, and the rest will be learned though on the job training, right?

not all of us have the luxury of having a structure fire every week, so we can practice what we learn in class, and gain that experience that is so important to the fire service.

I would imagine in most rural and suburban departments, it would be a fair assessment that most of the calls you go on will not be structure fires, and less than 10% of total alarms will be "real calls."

but forget about all those certifications (above the minimums) and continuing education courses, they are all just a way for a wacker to stroke his own ego

[JackTee09]

like, just get FF1, and blow off all those other "worthless" certs? skip the con-ed stuff, it's just a way to stroke one's ego? yeah, who needs courses in EMS, motor vehicle extrication, hazmat, ICS, those who get those courses are just trying to make themselves justify to the world that they are real firefighters? after all, you would never need any formal training on that stuff, right? you can just get the basics, and the rest will be learned though on the job training, right?

Once again this is not about learning the basics -it's about people who go after cert after cert only to be questioned later and be unable to recall very much. It has to do with having 200 certifications and believing yourself ready to step into a position solely based on those certs -
"Hey I have Fire Officer I, II, and II so time for me to be Chief!"

That is dangerous for the firefighter, those around him/her and the public.

[hwoods]

It is never useless to take the time to get a Certificate in something. It IS useless to do so when you have no intention of getting the experience to utilize the knowledge that you have, out in the field. THAT is a waste. I have a friend of many years who thakes courses all the time. He has not ridden a piece of Apparatus in several years, and will not again. In my opinion, he is taking up space that an active Firefighter could use, but there is no rule barring him from attending, so he keeps it up. Bear in mind, I'm not talking about administrative stuff either, this guy goes to the Chief's seminars, etc.