1. #1
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    Default Fill Site Techniques

    I am in the process of trying to get our local fire departments to move into setting up a fill site pumper rather than stuffing water in our tenders with a hand full of portable pumps. has anyone seen any charts of tables that relate fill site pumpers VS portable loading pumps? i know that there is a staggering amount of varriables here, and i already have some numbers of my own, but i'm just trying to see what others may have to offer.
    any help with my project would be great!
    Thanks,
    Justin

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    Here is one web site you might want to look at.

    http://www.ettfire.com/

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    Here is one more link you might want to look at.

    http://www.firewise.org/pubs/operationWater/

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    Hey, quit bashing portable pumps! We used to carry one(Sometimes two) on every piece of apparatus. I've pumped more water through portable pumps than you can imagine..

    I have a picture somewhere of me pumping a rural structure fire off of six portable pumps from the inaccessible pond down over the hill. It was so bad, we used our manifold in reverse, adapted the 2.5" hoses to come into the manifold and then off into a single 5". We then ran one into the pony suction, and another was adapted up to our rear intake. We were kicking some serious @$$ too.

    But, if you can get an engine in to draft, or off of a hydrant, by all means, use the damned engine. That's what it's designed to draft for. Plus, it's usually somewhat quicker because you don't have to shut em down and idle them and then run em back up once you're hooked up. You bring tankers in, fill em at maximum filling speed(usually 100 psi and 1,000GPM) off a 5" line and make stuff happen off your engine
    Last edited by SpartanGuy; 07-27-2005 at 05:06 PM.
    "Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."

    Safety is no accident.

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    Default WE LOVE OUR PORTABLE PUMPS!

    there's no denying the fact that in rural fire protection, portable pumps will always play a key role in our operations. we also carry at lease one portable pump on each piece of apparatus. the problem with our area is that many different fire departments have different fill intakes. some are camlock (yuck) some are threaded, and some are stortz. most of us are making a move foreward in the direction of standardization, but for now we are stuck in the middle between the "new ways" and the "old ways".
    if you're standing still, ,you're gonna get left behind!

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    The books published by Larry Davis are good sources of information on rural water and portable pumps. Typically, you run several portable pumps into a single drop tank. Three 100 gpm pumps have a fill rate of 300 gpm, filling a 1000 gallon tank in just over three minutes. If you then use a pumper to fill the tenders, your actual fill rate is closer to 1000 gpm. And while you're filling the tender, the drop tank is being refilled buy the portable pumps. Portable pumps are more efficient at low pressure/high flow so by filling the tank there is less pressure used to overcome friction loss. You need to get everyone on the same page as far as adapters, we converted to cam locks adapted to 3 inch hose. The new poly tanks can only be filled at no more than 100 psi at the capacity of the tank per minute. We "certified all the tenders in our automatic aid group. The chiefs decided on what each rig had to carry (low level strainer, capacity marked on vehicle and portable tank, cam locks, etc.) Then at least every rig can set up ith all the other responding tenders.

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    Default Getting Everyone on the Same Page

    We run regular mutual aid tanker shuttle exercises. We invite all of our surrounding mutual aid partners to participate. We set up a fill station with a dedicated pumper as well as with a number of portable pumps. Fill rates with the pumper are obviously much higher, but we aim for maximum flexibility, and treat the exercise as a learning experience. We also note the types of couplings used by each department, and ensure that we have adapters to match. While we use LDH with Storz, many commercial water haulers use 3" CamLok, so we have adapters for that. Last year we found that our provincial (state) forestry service use 2" Camlok, so we added some more adapters. Rather than try to convince everone to standardize (a difficult job) we opted to be as flexible as possible to accomodate everyone's differences. On a real job, as we set up the fill station, we develop a manifold that maximizes fill rates for everyone.
    I.A.C.O.J. - Getting crustier every day

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    With us, all of the tankers in our area can work together. Mutual aid drills showed the need to have the same fittings.
    It just comes down to practice, for ISO we had a ladder pipe and ground monitor going for the two hours with a shuttle without any problem.
    We hold a rural ISO 4
    I'm sure other places can move more but that works for us.
    It just comes down to practice.

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    I am interested in how you connect your portable pumps to your drop tank. Our drop tank is the floating wall kind and it has some convenient fittings in the sides but it would take a siamese or something to get more than one pump into it. Our portable pumps are mostly high pressure "foresty" models since most often we wind up carrying them along with hose, nozzles and tools to a remote fire somewhere there is a pond but I would be interested in setting up this kind of drill, surprisingly, we don't usually do this all that much.

    Birken

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    Originally posted by BirkenVogt
    I am interested in how you connect your portable pumps to your drop tank. Our drop tank is the floating wall kind and it has some convenient fittings in the sides but it would take a siamese or something to get more than one pump into it. Our portable pumps are mostly high pressure "foresty" models since most often we wind up carrying them along with hose, nozzles and tools to a remote fire somewhere there is a pond but I would be interested in setting up this kind of drill, surprisingly, we don't usually do this all that much.

    Birken
    We have the folding type of drop tank with the metal frame around the "tank". Somewhere one of our members found a device that clips onto the tank and is just a small elbow of pipe to shoot water into a drop tank. Works pretty well, only problem is that it doesn't work with anything bigger then our 3" without an adapter.

    We make do. To keep a porta-pond full, 3" does the job just fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADSNWFLD
    With us, all of the tankers in our area can work together. Mutual aid drills showed the need to have the same fittings.
    It just comes down to practice, for ISO we had a ladder pipe and ground monitor going for the two hours with a shuttle without any problem.
    We hold a rural ISO 4
    I'm sure other places can move more but that works for us.
    It just comes down to practice.
    Kinda off the original topic but…. ADSNWFLD, Impressive flow and ISO rating, how many tankers do you have respond on a first alarm? Also what’s the total distance driven (round trip) in your ISO drill?

    We use 5” CamLoks to Storz adp. on our fill hoses. It beats the heck out of fighting the storz with the hose haft full of water.

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