1. #1
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    Question No Cars Available

    Ok, No poll here.

    How many times have you been on a fire call or accident or EMS call and ask the dispatcher, if the Police are responding and they come back with, No Cars Available, Unit_____!

    This seems to be thing now days, no Police units to assist the fire department.

    It makes it bad with a motor vehicle accident, if you have to wait for them to come and take their reports; it puts the fire department in more danger.
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    Man, your city must either be short on cops or high on crime.. Everytime I see a wreck or a fire truck here in Dallas there are at least 3 cops cars aswell.
    When I get to hell
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    Spectre08
    There are firefighters here who do work where the budget is tight, crime is high, and the PD are not always right there.

    Jacktee

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    "Insert quotation here."

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    the budget is tight, crime is high, and the PD are not always right there.
    yep. sounds about like dallas.

    seriously though. If I were a firefighter I think that would **** me off too. And it must be at least a little bit more dangerous for the firefighters. I don't think it happens so much around here, but one of my best friends from high school is a firefighter in Cabot, Arkansas. And more than half of their fire calls are to burning meth labs and ever once in a while the owner of said meth house will show up and start shooting.
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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    It makes it bad with a motor vehicle accident, if you have to wait for them to come and take their reports; it puts the fire department in more danger.
    Why in the world would YOU have to wait for THEM to take THEIR reports? ESPECIALLY when there is a risk of being in more danger IE traffic? If there is a danger, extricate the pt, or do whatever you have to do (put out the fire, whatever) and return!
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    We seldom are told that an officer is not avaiable but we may wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive on scene.

    Population is roughly 150,00 in two counties which have a land area bigger than some northeastern states. Most of the population is along the I-90 corridor. The closest officer may be 20 miles or more away.

    You can't "just do your thing and leave" if it will expose others to a hazard such as a wrecked/burned vehicle partially blocking the road. We assist with traffic control until the officer releases us. We have a very good working relationship with law enforcement.

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    in my small town where I am the Asst. Chief it doesnt happen often .......at my full time job it is not unusual for the PD to be delayed in getting to some scenes.
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    Heres my .02 cents.. "What do firefighters and cops have in common?"... (answer)"They both want to be firefighters!"..

    No offence to our faithful boys in blue of course...
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  9. #9
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    Thumbs down Do What??......................

    Originally posted by FWDbuff


    Why in the world would YOU have to wait for THEM to take THEIR reports? ESPECIALLY when there is a risk of being in more danger IE traffic? If there is a danger, extricate the pt, or do whatever you have to do (put out the fire, whatever) and return!
    We NEVER leave until the PD arrives. When someone calls 911, their problem becomes our problem. We have to handle it. Period. And protecting the public, often from their own lack of common sense, is our job. Drive off and leave a wrecked auto in the road, and someone else comes along and hits it, I don't want to be your lawyer or your insurance broker. Also, a Chief or someone will hang out with the first arriving Police Officer until his backup arrives. I do not leave anyone, regardless of their agency affiliation, out on an incident scene.
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    Never go to a scene, do your thing and leave without the police there. That accident scene maybe a crime scene.....
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Is this a thing "nowdays". Yes. Absolutely.

    There was an article recently in a major law enforcement magazine calling on police everywhere to not respond to assist the FD. The article went on to say to blame it on the same budgetary restraints and policies that are affecting FD's these days, but in reality it is simply because they are fat, lazy, overpaid slobs who do not want to do their job.

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    The common idea here is: The quiker you get the road completely closed off, the quiker a cop car will suddenly become 'available' and arrive on scene.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

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    You don't leave a scene unless the pd has showed up or, on rare instances I have seen in New York City in the 70's and 80's - the PD say they are not going to make it there.
    Jacktee

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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Is this a thing "nowdays". Yes. Absolutely.

    There was an article recently in a major law enforcement magazine calling on police everywhere to not respond to assist the FD. The article went on to say to blame it on the same budgetary restraints and policies that are affecting FD's these days, but in reality it is simply because they are fat, lazy, overpaid slobs who do not want to do their job.
    I wonder how the author of that "article" would feel if there was an article in one of our trade magazines that called on FD's eveywhere not to respond to assist the PD?

    Hmmm. Was that article written by a NYPD ESU officer?

    PS: George.. is that article on line, and is there a link to it?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    When we have an MVA the police are usually there, parked in the worst possible places, making it difficult for us to position our engine and rescue.

    When the police are not there, I will call in an xtra engine and shut the road down. We are positioned to get the job done and we are positioned as blockers so no fool can run us down. When the police finally arrive, they always chew me out for havin everything shut down but tuff sh..! When the tow trucks arrive and haul off the vehicles and we sweep and shovel up the mess, then we leave, never before that. I'm a fire/rescue guy and dont concern myself with backed up traffic.

    God bless and pull the ceiling as you go.

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    we sweep and shovel up the mess, then we leave, never before that
    The way we have it set up over here is that the tow truck drivers have to do that. If they want to get money from towing the cars, they got to clean the glass and stuff up.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

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    The way we have it set up over here is that the tow truck drivers have to do that. If they want to get money from towing the cars, they got to clean the glass and stuff up.
    Ditto PattyV
    Jacktee

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Do What??......................

    Originally posted by hwoods


    We NEVER leave until the PD arrives. When someone calls 911, their problem becomes our problem. We have to handle it. Period. And protecting the public, often from their own lack of common sense, is our job. Drive off and leave a wrecked auto in the road, and someone else comes along and hits it, I don't want to be your lawyer or your insurance broker. Also, a Chief or someone will hang out with the first arriving Police Officer until his backup arrives. I do not leave anyone, regardless of their agency affiliation, out on an incident scene.
    ******************************

    Harve is correct. This is the policy that we have. If you call, we will come. We may not get a police officer for awhile. We will not leave until the situation is resolved and cleared or relieved by the Police agency. Even then, we make sure that it is safe to leave. On a MVA, we are there until the tow truck has loaded up and left and then we leave.

    By the way, the highway or street belongs to US when there is a MVA, auto fire, extrication and or EMS being done. Once we have completed our tasks, then we turn to scene over to the police, proving that they have arrived at the scene. Too many times they try to dictate to us to move the accident and fire trucks off the road way and lets get the traffic going again. We only move when it is safe to do so. It doesn’t happen in Virginia or Maryland!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

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    If a suicide or weapons are there,even if they are all cased up and locked,we have to wait for the SO to clear the scene before moving in.
    I'm told that there have been incidents where family members dragged the patient outside because the EMTs wouldn't go in until the SO arrived.
    McCracken County Ky is only 15 miles across but it still takes time when the nearest unit is on a meth raid on the other side of town.
    We have a deputy on our department which allows us to have some flexibility in responding to such scenes but he'snot always able to respond when he's off duty.

  20. #20
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    I can't think of more than 3 times in 20 years that a PO has not been available. And maybe 30 times that we actually beat and PO to the scene. They have left the scene before we were ready, and we have left the scene before they were ready. We help each other out all the time.

    When I was in college in PA, I hardly ever had a PO on any EMS calls and it caught me in some bad spots once in a while.

    (I think I'm going to hug my local cops again )
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  21. #21
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    We do not have local PD, we are covered by State Police, so there are often times that they will ask if they are needed or not. They will never just not show, but they will try and get out of some of the BS stuff like CO alarms and false fire alarms.

    The only time we demand them to show on those incidents is if we had to force entry and the building is now unsecured, other than that we clear without them showing.

    It is funny that they are never too busy for a wreck on the interstate. Then you get like 4 cars parked in a line so that your apparatus is like 100 yards away.

  22. #22
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    Requests for Police and Ambulance in London always cause a significant wait...especially the Police...it is a regular thing to hear a Fire Engine call up for an ETA for Police or Ambulance only to have Control come back and say "The Police/Ambulance have no unit assigned yet.

    Just part of life in a big city I guess....
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  23. #23
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    We have a unique situation. We cover area with 5 different PD agencies (including highway patrol). The only time we really have a probem is with one of the city agencies and highway patrol.

    As for to leave or not to leave, if the cars can be moved we mark the positions, move them and leave. PD on scene or not. If they cant be moved and are a hazzard we stay. We cant have ALS units tied up on scenes waiting for PD reports (all of our units are ALS).
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    Most of the time around here the PD is rolling for any FD call. Difficulty breathing PD, gas main rupture PD in route. Must be slow for the PD around here.
    This is my opinion and in no way represtents the opinion of my department.

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    Quote:
    The way we have it set up over here is that the tow truck drivers have to do that. If they want to get money from towing the cars, they got to clean the glass and stuff up.
    ---------------------------------------------

    This used to be our policy too cause they do charge for it and we get squat. I changed our policy a while back because doin the cleanup (when all else is done) gets us home faster. It also cuts our time exposed to traffic.

    Another thing I did (see if you agree or not) was to no longer allow PD to cancel fire/rescue/ems once we are dispatched. We would get out the door and dispatch would say "as per PD on scene, cancel fire/ems no injuries,no fluids down). I then report "message recieved" and I will send either the engine or rescue back but the ambulance and other apparatus with me onboard still proceed, non-emergent to the scene.(cops aint doctors and I want ems to get a patient signoff and I will be the judge of whether or not a dispatched apparatus is needed).

    God bless and pull the ceiling as you go.

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