Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber sconfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Summerville, SC
    Posts
    836

    Default 3rd alarm apartment fire, Irvington, NJ video

    Always remember the CHARLESTON 9

    Captain Grant Mishoe, Curator of History
    North Charleston and American LaFrance Fire Museum
    "You'll never know where you're going until you remember where you came from"
    www.legacyofheroes.org
    www.firehistory.org
    www.sconfire.com


  2. #2
    Forum Member BFDNJFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Iraq
    Posts
    1,508

    Default

    yeah my buddy pete works for them and said that it was cooking good!
    ******=================
    ******================
    ******=================
    ******================
    =======================
    =======================
    =======================

    ------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------

  3. #3
    EuroFirefighter.com PaulGRIMWOOD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    831

    Default

    Where does this leave us with those of you who feel exterior attacks for rapid knockdown of a fast spreading structure fire are totally wrong? The previous FDNY video started some interesting debate on this strategy that suggested it should not happen .... from what you can see in this fire .... were they right or wrong to mount an exterior attack?
    Last edited by PaulGRIMWOOD; 07-31-2005 at 11:55 AM.

  4. #4
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,574

    Default

    Give me a break....two COMPLETLY different scenarios. The FDNY video was a 3 story fireproof out 2 windows on arrival. This video was a non fireproof 4 story with fire on the 3rd and 4th floors as well as the cockloft. Comparing the two simply to start another argument already going on another thread is useless.

  5. #5
    EuroFirefighter.com PaulGRIMWOOD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    831

    Default

    No you give ME a break bro! The discussion was about exterior attacks in general! Not just related to the Queens fire! The debate was about using exterior streams to gain some rapid knockdown of a rapidly spreading fire .... of which the main concensus of opinion was .... we just don't do it!

  6. #6
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,574

    Default

    ok, then in this case, without knowing the manpower situation, or many other variables, i cant really comment. I still dont understand what the FDNY video has to do with this though.

  7. #7
    EuroFirefighter.com PaulGRIMWOOD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    831

    Default

    Originally posted by PaulGRIMWOOD
    The previous FDNY video started some interesting debate on this strategy
    nyckftbl - Good job on noticing the cockloft fire

  8. #8
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,574

    Default

    thanx, atleast i got something right...

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    193

    Default

    from what you can see in this fire .... were they right or wrong to mount an exterior attack?

    I think the video is too short to give you any real info on what they were facing. Were you talking about knocking it down and then going inside, or just going exterior alone?

    It looked to me like they might have gone defensive after, as the newsman says,"they had numerous rescues". The stream from the right looks like a large line or deluge gun.

    Too many questions for too little info.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,719

    Default

    Paul, the risk vs. benefit is what it really comes down to for me. If there is a possibility of savable lives (and weighing the amount of fire, reading the smoke conditions and my impression of the condition of the building) we will attempt an interior attack. I would not feel good about hitting the fire from the outside if there is a chance of viable victims inside.

    BTW, the Chopper 2 reporter gets my vote for Super Buff of the Year. What a cool job that would be

    It's obvious from listening to him in both videos that he knows alot more about firefighting than most reporters.
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    88

    Default

    If you look in the lower righthand window, it looks as if they were trying an interior attack there... I could be wrong, but hey who knows?....
    _____________
    David Bradley
    FF/SAR
    Round Mountan VFD

    GO NAVY!!

  12. #12
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    I am saying that in this video appears not to be as well staffed as the FDNY one ............they did get a good knock down form the exterior on the one corner.............I have no idea how they are staffed etc ............
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  13. #13
    Forum Member JackTee09's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    SC & NJ
    Posts
    630

    Default

    First of all it is Irvington, NJ - or Little Newark. It is not Queens. Further the manpower situation is drastically different.
    Further still it shows that there is more than one way to supress a fire
    And finally I have seen a lot of video from the Irvington guys and this one is far too short to make the kinds of comparisons to the FDNY one that ran for what? 25 minutes or so?
    Jacktee

    IACOJ

    "Insert quotation here."

  14. #14
    EuroFirefighter.com PaulGRIMWOOD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    831

    Default

    No .... I take all your points and they are good ones. I can well imagine the first reponders had more than just a fire to deal with if reports of trapped occupants were correct. (As a side - always remember sometimes an early hit on the fire, or even the simple closing of a door, can save a lot of lives in the long term).

    I agree here that this is a fire for interior attack based on my guiding principal that an exterior stream is reserved for situations
    where exposures are threatened or a fire is rapidly spreading to other parts of the structure.
    However, there are at least three or four interior lines needed on this fire as we see it in the video. There is also a heavy manpower commitment for the roof fire. I would like to see this structure at the fire's conclusion.

    The exterior stream didn't, in my mind, appear to achieve a great deal from what little we could see .... (which was probably a lot more than the firefighter operating the fire stream itself!)

  15. #15
    Forum Member BFDNJFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Iraq
    Posts
    1,508

    Default

    http://www.news12.com/NJ/topstories/article?id=149262#

    this is our local tv news stations coverage of it !
    ******=================
    ******================
    ******=================
    ******================
    =======================
    =======================
    =======================

    ------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------

  16. #16
    EuroFirefighter.com PaulGRIMWOOD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    831

    Default

    Originally posted by BFDNJFF
    http://www.news12.com/NJ/topstories/article?id=149262#

    this is our local tv news stations coverage of it !
    Ow I'm not a subscriber! How did the fire finish?

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    I think there are a few things you all should know about Irvington.

    This is, perhaps next to Camden, the most lawless and hopeless city in NJ. They have been plagued by years of official corruption, financial disaster and blight. The politicos raped the city and then abandoned it.

    This is one of the highest per capita fire areas in North Jersey. The IFD is criminally understaffed (not unlike many other Essex County FD's). The fact that the fires go out at all is a testament to the dedication and intestinal fortitude of the rank and file. I have investigated several fires down there and am constantly amazed at what they can do with the few resources they have.

  18. #18
    EuroFirefighter.com PaulGRIMWOOD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    831

    Default

    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    I think there are a few things you all should know about Irvington.
    The IFD is criminally understaffed (not unlike many other Essex County FD's). The fact that the fires go out at all is a testament to the dedication and intestinal fortitude of the rank and file. I have investigated several fires down there and am constantly amazed at what they can do with the few resources they have.
    George I would not hesitate to emphasise that this debate is not about the handling of this fire specifically by the IFD and full credit to them in the way, as you report, they go about their business with limited resources.

    However, the reference that they are understaffed most certainly impacts on firefighting tactics in general and it should be recognised that such a tactical approach is sometimes forced upon a responding fire force under such circumstances.

    Thanks for that input George.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,708

    Default

    FDNY=ARMY of Firefihters.

    Most other FDs in the nation can not bring that many guys to a fire.

    I would imagine that there are a lot of places where an attack like this would be about the only way to start to get a handle on the fire.

    As the video mentioned the call went out for mutual aid. Any idea how long that would take to get there?

    How many engines/truks first due? If its only 1 enigin then they IMO did the best thing they could. Try to slow the spread until you have enough guys to make a relatively safe internal move.

    Hope the hell that everybody got out.

    Rescue is of course worth the risk, but this thing was cooking and If I only had 1 engin with 4-5 guys then I would be very hesitant to send them in until a back up/RIT was in place.

    It would have been interesting to see an elevated steam hit that. The deck gun just has a poor angle.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  20. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2

    Default A little about the IFD

    Hey,

    Just a little background on the Irvington FD and this job:

    Currently, there are approximately 140 firefighters on the department, and they run 4 engines and 2 truck companies with 3 FF's and 1 officer are assigned to each. A fifth engine company was (as of late June) temporarily out of service due to a lack of personnel, though that might have changed as of now.

    I believe that the standard first due response is 2 engines and a ladder company with a 3rd engine assigned as the RIT if there is an actual job.

    Mutual aid from Newark, East Orange, Union, Maplewood is frequently received and given.

    As for this particular fire, I have heard that the residents tried to put it out before the department was notified, and it really got a head start. Additionally, an interior attack was attempted, but there was a partial collapse of the roof and the companies were pulled back. 18 families were removed from the building, and it took a total of 50 firefighters an hour to bring the fire under control. If I am able to find more out, I will post it here.
    Last edited by FortunateSonIFD; 08-01-2005 at 10:34 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts