We just switched over to new SCBA's

[scbaguy]

Been a while in the makeing, but today we did it. We traded our SCBA's for the new Scott NXG2. We had Scott AP50s, so it's not much of a change, but they are all new. We also went from the low pressure 2216 psi, to the high pressure 4500 psi.
We now have all of our operations useing NXG2s. Our Haz-Mat still has the AP50's 'cause they were bought on a grant, so we had to keep them.

Does any other Department out there have all NXG2's? If so, I'd really love to get in touch with your Scott Techs.

[SamsonFCDES]

Scott sucks.

Drager Rules.

[EngCo29]

Nope, Scott and MSA are my two favorites, Drager is a waste of time and money.

[ADSNWFLD]

The NXG2 isn't that different from the air pac 50
What do you want to know?

[SamsonFCDES]

Originally posted by EngCo29
Nope, Scott and MSA are my two favorites, Drager is a waste of time and money.

Drager was the first, and the best.

Forever.

Dragerman

[FyredUp]

Draeger?

You are kidding right? Or maybe not...

The Scott and MSA SCBA are still dominant in this country and will be for years to come. Why? They have proven themselves to be tough and reliable.

Scott sucks? I see, must be why FDNY and Boston use them. If you like your Draegers, fine, more power to you. But to say Scott sucks shows a lack of experience on your part. I have used Scott pak-1's, Scott pak-II's, II-a's, 2.2, 4.5 and AP-50's over 28 years and have NEVER, repeat NEVER, had a failure of any kind while in use at a fire or emergency scene.

My second choice would be the new MSA Firehawk. We use them at my career FD. Light, comforatble, easy breathing and not complicated to operate.

I see no need to look elsewhere for SCBA with the track record I have with both Scott and MSA.

FyredUp

[SamsonFCDES]

Originally posted by FyredUp
Draeger?

You are kidding right? Or maybe not...

The Scott and MSA SCBA are still dominant in this country and will be for years to come. Why? They have proven themselves to be tough and reliable.

Scott sucks? I see, must be why FDNY and Boston use them. If you like your Draegers, fine, more power to you. But to say Scott sucks shows a lack of experience on your part. I have used Scott pak-1's, Scott pak-II's, II-a's, 2.2, 4.5 and AP-50's over 28 years and have NEVER, repeat NEVER, had a failure of any kind while in use at a fire or emergency scene.

My second choice would be the new MSA Firehawk. We use them at my career FD. Light, comforatble, easy breathing and not complicated to operate.

I see no need to look elsewhere for SCBA with the track record I have with both Scott and MSA.

FyredUp

(Hook, Line, sinker...)

You asume that since I dont suck on SCOTT SCBA **** (Regulator) says im inexperienced. (Actualy your are wrong, I have used Scott IIA, Scott 4.5 which one is sitting on my study book shelf, and MSA Ultralite II)

LOL, actulay your comments prove you are un-educated in PPE/SCBA history.

We switched from Scott to Drager because of Dragers superiority.

What SCBA has a LIFETIME warranty?

What SCBA has a mask that is can seal to all types of faces with one size?

What other SCBA was the FIRST SCBA in existance?

What SCBA was the SCBA in the blockbuster Ladder 49?

What SCBA is the world recognized leader in extream cold weather operations?

What breathing apparatus (SCBA, Rebreather, SCUBA) is the choice of US military special forces?

What SCBA is the world leader in the SCBA market?

Drager, thats what SCBA.

What SCBA came out nearly 50 YEARS after Drager?

What SCBA is NOT the leader in the WORLD SCBA market?

What SCBA has face pieces that routienly crack?

SCOTT, thats what SCBA.

Drager is better then Scott, deal with it!

[craigsheets]

If Drager and ISI are so superior, then why did their techs spend more time trying to make them work in our testing then actually having them on someone in our testing we did before buying our new SCBA? After extensive testing we ended up with Scott.

Funny story, during testing a Scott rep came in and seen all the others over there working on their packs and said something about why they weren't told they could work on their packs during testing. He was told don't worry, yours is the only one that hasn't failed for some reason during the tests. So, I can't seem to agree on the ISI and Drager arguments about them being the best.

[Bones42]

We haven't used ISI packs in a while, so I'm sure they have changed them since. But at that time, regulators were made of plastic and broke often. One of their sales pitch's was that the regulator was so easy to repair/replace. It needed to be as it broke so often. Masks were nice and had good fit and decent field of view. "Air on" was by clipping the regulator to the mask correctly, then turning 1/4 turn. There was a tiny little lever that had to engage the exact correct spot to work. Caused many delays in getting air on. Low air whistle (my favorite) sounds great in a quiet room, unheard in actual fire scenes where there is some noise. They would also fill with water since they used an upright design with no where for water to drain out. Once the water is in it, it would muffle the whistle further.

As I said, that was years ago and I'm sure they must have made improvements.

PS - I've had a Scott 2.2 down to 12 feet of water with no problems.

[BFDNJFF]

the best IMO is the scott 4.5 with buddy breathing capabilities and digital air read out in the mask. I love them they are light weight and simple to operate !

[SSHANK42]

I like red.

[WebFire]

Your arguments are weak at best.

We switched from Scott to Drager because of Dragers superiority.

What reasons? Care to share the results or your extensive testing?

What SCBA has a LIFETIME warranty?

That by no means makes them the best.

What SCBA has a mask that is can seal to all types of faces with one size?

Nice feature, but not a deal maker for me.

What other SCBA was the FIRST SCBA in existance?

Irrelevant.

What SCBA was the SCBA in the blockbuster Ladder 49?

Even more irrelevant. That is just out in left field somewhere.

What SCBA is the world recognized leader in extream cold weather operations?

Proof? And again, nice feature, but depending on where you are from, might not matter.

What breathing apparatus (SCBA, Rebreather, SCUBA) is the choice of US military special forces?

For firefighting? Let's stick to what we do with them.

What SCBA is the world leader in the SCBA market?

By what definition. Let's see some numbers. From a reliable source.

What SCBA came out nearly 50 YEARS after Drager?

Irrelevant again.

What SCBA is NOT the leader in the WORL SCBA market?

Refer to above.

What SCBA has face pieces that routienly crack?

Our MSA's have never cracked. Ever.

Drager is better then Scott, deal with it!

Subjective. Let's see some real arguments with something to back it up!

[CaptOldTimer]

We had more trouble with MSA and getting them repaired or parts to repair them, which this forum doesn't have the space for me to elaborate on it. Had Scotts before the MSA's.

We switched to Surviviar years back to the Mark-1 and have upgraded and replaced the units through the years. Still using Survivair.

We are happy with what we have.

[orangehopeful]

What SCBA was the SCBA in the blockbuster Ladder 49?
I know this wasn't the point of this thread, but I'd like to have some fun too

What SCBA has a LIFETIME warranty?

I don't care if they can fix it after it fails in a fire, I'd rather it just work and the warranty be water under the bridge

What SCBA has a mask that is can seal to all types of faces with one size?

You know, I have a one size fits all hat, but my 7 1/2 size cap fits me a lot better and gets the job done

What other SCBA was the FIRST SCBA in existance?

Ah so then Fords are clearly the highest quality automobiles on the market and the only thing we should buy


What SCBA is the world recognized leader in extream cold weather operations?

Hmmm... My fires get warm, yours must be "extreme cold." Is this like how everything is opposite in the Southern Hemisphere?

What breathing apparatus (SCBA, Rebreather, SCUBA) is the choice of US military special forces?

They also have quite the heavy firepower/armored vehicles, I guess we should start headed in that direction too.

What SCBA is the world leader in the SCBA market?

In warranties?!

Drager, thats what SCBA.

What SCBA came out nearly 50 YEARS after Drager?

Which country came out centuries after England? The US. Seems to have worked out fine...

What SCBA is NOT the leader in the WORLD SCBA market?

I'm speechless

What SCBA has face pieces that routienly crack?

I don't know, used Scott my whole life, never seen one crack so I cannot answer that.

Hope you don't mind the sarcastic responses, just had to do it

[jpsmith2]

Originally posted by TrojanHorse

-- [ISI] Runs on 8 AA batteries
Actually it runs on 4, the other 4 are a backup for the first 4.

-- In fact has been known to work in 10 feet of water.
Not a good argument to make against Drager. The SCBA uses the same LDV that their SCUBA does.

[fftrainer]

Hate to burst your bubbles but the ISI Air PAck is superior to any on the market.

Hate to burst everyone's bubbles, but the guy didn't ask for who's SCBA is better. His station bought new ones and was looking for model specific info like tips and advice.

It's amazing that as soon as someone mentions a manufacturer of ANYTHING... gear, scba, apparatus, rescue struts, rescue tools... it turns in to yours sucks an mines better. At least you guys made a little bit of effort to back up your claims, most guys just say xyz sucks and then they run for cover.

SCBAGUY I'd love to help you out... but my Scott experience ends with the AP 50 which my part time station uses and MSA at my full time station. In either case, the only thing I can come up with is keep batteries on hand. We have a bulk in the equipment room at the station and we have some on each apparatus, cause you know these things always act up at the most in-opportune time!

Good luck with the new ones!

[Rescue101]

Samson,If you're a big Drager fan well great.Darley pumps been around a long time too but I wouldn't buy one."Scott masks routinely crack",Ah,NO THEY DON'T if you DON THEM CORRECTLY.These "cracks"that the Navy and others have "recently"discovered are caused by;ARE YOU READY FOR THIS;product abuse.The wearer is NOT properly seating the regulator and it puts a stress crack in the lower ring of the facepiece.Another hot tip,in no way does this prevent the mask from being used or present a health hazard to the user.We've replaced two in over twenty years of Scott use.Let me know how your Dragers are holding up if you get to use 'em that long.The TOTAL cost of ownership of a pack is what we look at when we buy.For what we do,hands down it's Scott.Maintainence issues are few and bench test repairs are minimal.The only other packs you'll find around here are a few MSA's,No ISI or Dragers. I've worn both and while either beats breathing smoke I didn't find anything that would cause me to switch.Different areas will also dictate packs based on what dealer is going to take care of you.But to say one of the top rated/used packs in the US(particularly the Northeast US) "sucks"is just plain WRONG. The French came up with the first tank too,I believe it was a Renault,would you like one of those too? T.C.

[FyredUp]

Samson...

WE have battled in the past and quite frankly your "Scott sucks" proves your egocentric way of looking at things. If it isn't what you bought, it's junk. The trends of the past and continued usage by a majority of FD's simply makes your statement ridiculous

I couldn't possibly begin to care less thay Draeger had the first SCBA. If in fact they actually did. If it came out 50 years before the Scott pak-1 it would have had to be out somewhere in the early 1900's. Prove it. And it has to be a compressed air breathing device, not a filter mask.

Being first doesn't necessairly make you best at anything. I don't see major metroploitan FD's flocking to switch to Draeger.

Specifically name the things YOU think make Draeger superior to Scott? Other than a pretty blue bottle.

Lifetime warranty? If I thought that was important I would say so. But a track record of 28 years and using several models of Scott with NOT ONE SINGLE FAILURE, makes the necessity for that kind of sales gimmic irreleveant. And believe me it is a gimmic. Read the fine print sometime.

I personally would rather have a mask that is face piece fit tested to my face, which by the way is an NFPA Standard, than a generic one size fits all. We issue facepieces to all of our firefighters so this point is moot.

Mentioning a movie as a rationale for buying a brand of SCBA is so far beyond ridiculous as to be unbelievable. For a whacker that may be justification, for a firefighter never.

Extreme cold? It gets to 30 below zero in Wisconsin, maybe my FD is blessed but we have never frozen a 2.2 or AP-50 regulator. Personally I want my SCBA to simply work under all conditions I may face and Scott does. They all have to meet the NFPA's requirement for testing don't they?

Using the military as justification for buying anything is suspect. When I worked for the WiANG the Air Force bought Interspiros...Would you want one of those? Hell, I would sell them on e-bay if they were a gift to me. As far as special forces using Draegers, who cares, are they using them for firefighting? Because that is what I use my SCBA for.

As far as the world market goes. Again, irrelevant to me. Salsa is the world's leading condiment but I don't want it on my hot dog. Just because somebody else does something doesn't make it right for everyone.

In the event that a Scott face piece cracked, it was the result of user error. 1) The face piece regulator was forced into position improperly and resulted in a crack in that mating surface 2) The old style face pieces had head harnesses held on by screws, if overtightened it was possible to crack the face piece lens. Neither of these was drop dead kill you failures. The mask would still seal and function, but the lens should be replaced.

Again, if you are happy with your Draegers more power to you. But to state something like Scott sucks doesn't make any relevant point at all. Neither does quoting a salesman pitch about his product to experienced combat firefighters who are using other types of SCBA everyday somewhere in this country.

Chill out and enjoy your Draegers...somebody has to.

FyredUp

[hozman43]

We have the new NXG2 and we do not trust or like them at all. The buddy breathing connections are a major problem,if they are hit just right they will open releasing your air.This has happened both in training and on the fireground.Scott has already replaced several facepieces that where cracked. They have also replaced a little electronic part on all the paks. Several valves on the tanks were leaking by which caused the pass device to activate just setting on the truck. We had very few problems with our older scotts.


Stay Safe

Hozman

[SamsonFCDES]

Originally posted by FyredUp
Samson...

WE have battled in the past and quite frankly your "Scott sucks" proves your egocentric way of looking at things. If it isn't what you bought, it's junk. The trends of the past and continued usage by a majority of FD's simply makes your statement ridiculous

Scot Sucks.

OMG thats funny!

I couldn't possibly begin to care less thay Draeger had the first SCBA. If in fact they actually did. If it came out 50 years before the Scott pak-1 it would have had to be out somewhere in the early 1900's. Prove it. And it has to be a compressed air breathing device, not a filter mask.

Drager was formed in the late 1800s and has been providing breathing apparatus ever since. Scott didnt get into the breathing apparatus business until after WWII.

Drager History at the Drager Website:
http://www.draeger.com/HG/internet/E...?prversion=yes

Mine Rescue/SCBA History:
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deput...l/section1.htm
II. Development of SCBA

The history of the development of self-contained breathing apparatus goes quite far back in time, though in the early days most of the attention was given to designing a unit to protect firemen from smoke inhalation.

One such design for firemen dates back to about 1825 when the "smoke filter" was used. It consisted of a leather hood and a hose that was strapped to one of the wearer's leg. It did not contain its own supply of oxygen. Rather, it was designed so that when the wearer inhaled from inside the hood, air would be drawn up through the hose.

The idea behind this design was that the best air during a fire is closest to the floor. The hose and hood was intended to provide this better air to the firemen as they worked in smoke.

Soon after, equipment was designed to provide the firemen with good safe air to breathe for short periods of time. One such design was the "supplied air suit" which was filled with fresh air to breathe.

Another design for firefighters was a bag-like unit filled with fresh air and carried on one's back, much like some of today's units.

Underwater divers also used some of the first self contained breathing apparatus developed.

Then, in 1853, self-contained breathing apparatus was introduced for use in the mines by a Professor Schwann of Belgium. In that year, Schwann entered a self-contained breathing apparatus in a competition of the Belgian Academy of Science, and exhibited it at an industrial fair in Belgium.

In 1880, the original Fleuss apparatus was introduced in England, and in 1903 the original Draeger apparatus was developed in Germany.

In the United States, breathing apparatus were introduced in 1907 when five Draeger units were purchased by the Boston and Montana Mining Company in Butte, Montana.

Records show that also in 1907, apparatus were first used to fight fires and explore ahead of fresh air in the mines:

In October or November of 1907, Draeger apparatus were used by a crew of men during the fighting and sealing of a mine fire at the Minnie Healy Mine of the Boston and Montana Mining and Smeiting Company in Butte, Montana.
On December 6, two Draeger apparatus were used to explore ahead of fresh air after an explosion in the Monongah Mine of the Consolidated Coal Company in Monongah. West Virginia.
On December 19, apparatus were used after an explosion in the Darr Mine of the Pittsburgh Coal Company in Jacobs Creek, Pennsylvania.

Rebreather timeline:
http://mitglied.lycos.de/dg8fz/rebreather/gallery.htm

Being first doesn't necessairly make you best at anything. I don't see major metroploitan FD's flocking to switch to Draeger.

Off the top of my head: Pittsburg, Miami Dade, Anchorage AK to name a few.

Specifically name the things YOU think make Draeger superior to Scott? Other than a pretty blue bottle.

Sentinel unit.
Merlin
Second stage that doesnt cross contaminate and doesnt freeze up.
PSS100 frame is much more comfortable then the Scot NXG2 or AP50 frame.
One mask fits all faces.
Yearly maintenace of only 2 O rings to replace at a grand total of <2 dollars.

These are some of the reasons we SWITCHED form Scott to Drager.

Lifetime warranty? If I thought that was important I would say so. But a track record of 28 years and using several models of Scott with NOT ONE SINGLE FAILURE, makes the necessity for that kind of sales gimmic irreleveant. And believe me it is a gimmic. Read the fine print sometime.

The fine print says "It breaks, we fix it, forever"

I personally would rather have a mask that is face piece fit tested to my face, which by the way is an NFPA Standard, than a generic one size fits all. We issue facepieces to all of our firefighters so this point is moot.

Drager is the only facepice that can pass the fit test with one size mask, their seals are that good.

Mentioning a movie as a rationale for buying a brand of SCBA is so far beyond ridiculous as to be unbelievable. For a whacker that may be justification, for a firefighter never.

LOL, more jealousy form the Scott crowd.

Baltimore is another city that has Drager. It was in the movie for accuracy...and because they wanted to make sure their high paid actors had the best SCBA available! OMG LOL!!!!

http://www.firehouse.com/ladder49/

Extreme cold? It gets to 30 below zero in Wisconsin, maybe my FD is blessed but we have never frozen a 2.2 or AP-50 regulator. Personally I want my SCBA to simply work under all conditions I may face and Scott does. They all have to meet the NFPA's requirement for testing don't they?

Extream cold performance is one of the main reasons many AK and MT FDs use Drager. They simply work better in the super cold then most SCBAs. Scott is good, but spit and moisture can get directly into the second stage and freeze them. Vikings are horird for this!

Using the military as justification for buying anything is suspect. When I worked for the WiANG the Air Force bought Interspiros...Would you want one of those? Hell, I would sell them on e-bay if they were a gift to me. As far as special forces using Draegers, who cares, are they using them for firefighting? Because that is what I use my SCBA for.

Drager makes the finest SCUBA/Rebreathers available, thats what the SF uses.

There are a lot of Dragers in military service (IIRC HAZMAT and NG units), as are scott and interspiro as you mentioned.

As far as the world market goes. Again, irrelevant to me. Salsa is the world's leading condiment but I don't want it on my hot dog. Just because somebody else does something doesn't make it right for everyone.

You are one of those people that never tries anything new arnt you...just ketchup on your dogs.

Just because you have never tried something doesnt mean its not better...or tastes good for that matter.

In the event that a Scott face piece cracked, it was the result of user error. 1) The face piece regulator was forced into position improperly and resulted in a crack in that mating surface 2) The old style face pieces had head harnesses held on by screws, if overtightened it was possible to crack the face piece lens. Neither of these was drop dead kill you failures. The mask would still seal and function, but the lens should be replaced.

User error is irrelevant, they still failed and do it often.

Drager simply does not have a design flaw like this.

Again, if you are happy with your Draegers more power to you. But to state something like Scott sucks doesn't make any relevant point at all. Neither does quoting a salesman pitch about his product to experienced combat firefighters who are using other types of SCBA everyday somewhere in this country.

Chill out and enjoy your Draegers...somebody has to.

FyredUp

Scott sucks. ROTFLMAO!!!!

Who needs to chill out? LOL, look back and see the rabid Scott fanboys going ballistic while users of ther packs calmly state their points.