Thread: Pierce Failure

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    Default Pierce Failure

    I found this out in a local newspaper, what do you think of this.

    Thu, Jul 14, 2005

    Aerial fire truck's ladder breaks
    Failure happens during training; unit still under warranty

    By Rick LaFrombois
    and Elizabeth Putnam
    Wausau Daily Herald
    rlafrombois@wdhprint.com
    eputnam@wdhprint.com

    The manufacturer of Weston's aerial fire truck will repair the truck's ladder at no charge after a hydraulic ram that extends the ladder shattered two weeks ago.

    Two Wausau firefighters were training on the apparatus at the Wausau Fire Department on Thomas Street when the ram broke. The firefighters were able to climb down from the ladder unharmed, and the 1999 truck, which still is under warranty, was taken to Pierce Manufacturing in Appleton for repair.

    "This kind of thing wouldn't happen under normal use," Weston Fire Chief Mike Pierce said. "If it's a parts issue, the manufacturer wants to make sure that it wasn't a design flaw."
    The aerial truck, which is equipped with a 100-foot ladder with a basket at the end and an arm with a wide range of motion, is shared by the Wausau and Weston fire departments through an agreement that began in May. Wausau's 1984 aerial truck, which was being housed in Weston, is back in Wausau until the 1999 aerial is fixed.

    The Wausau Department of Public Works maintains and repairs the aerial truck. The department has repaired the truck more often than expected, Wausau Fire Chief Gary Buchberger said. But until now, Wausau had been able to handle the maintenance and repairs, which had not revealed any serious problems.

    Buchberger said the truck has rolled to numerous fires, but the ladder has not been extended except during training.

    It's not the first time, however, that the ladder has broke.

    The truck was built at the Nova Quintech company in Canada at the same time Pierce Manufacturing was buying the Nova company, leaving many Nova employees without jobs.

    The truck was first purchased by the Cary, N.C., fire department. During one of its runs in 2003, two firefighters were in the truck's basket, which was about 15 feet off the ground, when the arm of the basket broke. The firefighters were not seriously injured.

    The Cary Fire Department sent the truck to Pierce in Appleton for repair. It was there that the company discovered someone had cut the inner tube that supports the ladder. The truck had been sabotaged, possibly by a disgruntled Nova Quintech employee, a Pierce sales manager said when the truck was purchased two years ago for $520,000 by Weston after it was repaired.

    "It's definitely a decent truck," said Don Skare, Wausau's director of public works. "I think they got their money's worth when they bought this."

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    I'm very surprised. To think that it was inspected so well to find the "possibly sabotoged" part, I find it hard to believe there was another part that would fail after 2 years of what appears to be minor useage. Tis a shame.
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    Default Re: Pierce Failure

    Originally posted by ff43065
    The truck had been sabotaged, possibly by a disgruntled Nova Quintech employee, a Pierce sales manager said when the truck was purchased two years ago for $520,000 by Weston after it was repaired.
    That's one hell of a way to show your unhappiness - by doing something that could possibly harm someone else! That's really strange if it's true.
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    Arrow in case you forgot ................

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    LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL. You gotta be kidding me. A Pierce aerial has a problem. The steel wonder toy kings have a problem? Paint that rig white and put elephant on the side of the aerial. Problem rig since built, Cary proved that and now another department having issues with the same rig.

    And the Pierce rep throwing the blame to Nova-Quintech, Atleast he's trying. LOL.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    I can't imagine what that department was thinking buying a previously wrecked aerial and I'm amazed that Pierce had the nerve to resell that thing again. Anything for a buck I guess.

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    I wonder if they have tried re-selling the Quantum all steer Quint they took back from Natick (Massachusetts) FD earlier this year... the one that the rear wheels did a kamikaze run into a tree.
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    I can't believe the Cary truck was resold.

    Wow... it should've been turned into guardrail or something useful.

    Luckily no one was hurt (again).
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    Kind of makes you wonder what happened to the two platforms Philly sent back to KME.

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    Kind of makes you wonder what happened to the two platforms Philly sent back to KME.
    Actually, they ordered two. One was only delivered, and there were SO many problems with it (as well as the Rescue Company) that Philly had the tower TOWED to KME's factory by Shop 2, dropped in the executive parking lot, right in front of the main offices on a Sunday afternoon. Philadelphia then refused delivery of the second unit, which had just come out of the paint shop when the first one was returned.
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    I think calling the a "Pierce Failure" is disingenuous at best. The unit was not built by Pierce. Calling it a Pierce failure is just like calling the failure of the Bronto skylift in Canada an E-One failure even though it was built before E-One bought Bronto. The error Pierce made here was reselling the unit. Who would approve the resale of a unit manufactured by someone else that had already failed once? That being said, this sounds like a simple case of a defective ram. Fortunately no one was hurt and hopefully Pierce scraps this thing and installs a new Pierce aerial.



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    Cool aerial failure

    Good call ladder27. I might say that things still don't seem totally kopasetic as to the whole deal wether Pierce is at fault or the original maker or sabotage things should have been checked. I would also like to know if the mechancs are certified to work on emergency apparatus, at least ASE and better yet EVT.

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    I kept thinking that Pierce just mounted a new main on the old chassis, but they really repaired a ladder that failed, hit THE GROUND, and sold it someone else at a price that in my opinion, wasn't that great for a used rig, with a "history???"

    Please tell me Pierce didn't do this.

    Our mechanic works for a department that bought a Pierce ladder that had multiplex issues from day one. In desperation, they finally drove the rig back to Pierce and got their lawyers involved. Now, a rig like that - one that had issues, but not a failure, would be a candidate for resale, but only with specific and lengthy guarantees that the problem had been resolved.

    Pierce is large enough, that I'm sure the chassis from the Cary rig could have been a test bed for prototypes, crash testing, anything...but lifting people.

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    Lightbulb

    "This kind of thing wouldn't happen under normal use," Weston Fire Chief Mike Pierce said.

    How does the Chief know this? Were the guys training doing something that exceeded the trucks limitations? Maybe he should take the truck back and only use it for "emergencies"!

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    I must respectfully disagree. While I do admit that on the surface the Pierce & E-One incidents seem similar. They are not however alike.

    The Bronto failure was a rig built BEFORE E-One owned Bronto and was on a Freightliner chassis.

    The ORIGINAL Pierce failure of the rig in question (In Cary) happened to a rig whose aerial was made by a company OWNED at the time of failure by Pierce and was mounted on Pierce chassis to boot. Pierce owns this failure from the get go.

    The SECOND failure of the same rig occured AFTER Pierce "Fixed" the rig. Pierce owns every bit of the failure of this one too. No 2 ways about it.

    So in closing, I must say that the two are not apples to apples, but maybe apples to oranges. The fans of the steel aerial builder of Appleton, you may now cast your rocks in my direction.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    I fail too see the problem with re-selling this particular rig. The story says in the original incident, a basket arm broke. Most baskets are attatchments to the the main ladder. They are made to be replaced. Same with the tips of straight ladders. This is done as the baskets/tips are easily damaged.

    As for the current problem, nothing is perfect. Any builder can have a part faliure. Happens to the best of them.
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    You see nothing wrong with reselling a aerial that failed, fell to and impacted with the ground, with two guys riding it down? Luckily they were working low to the ground.

    I would also suspect that if the "basket arm" broke on a SkyArm type rig, its a pretty big deal...

    Look at the lower picture on this page. Looks like more than a basket arm failed here.

    Cary Failure
    Last edited by npfd801; 08-04-2005 at 10:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801
    You see nothing wrong with reselling a aerial that failed, fell to and impacted with the ground, with two guys riding it down? Luckily they were working low to the ground.

    I would also suspect that if the "basket arm" broke on a SkyArm type rig, its a pretty big deal...

    Look at the lower picture on this page. Looks like more than a basket arm failed here.

    Cary Failure
    I recall that incedent. That was a failure of one of the main base section arms, not a "basket arm failure" as stated in the first post in this thread. I was just going by what was posted and in that case, damage to a basket or tip section alone is not a big issue.
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    And come to think of it, since the failure in the photo you posted was due to a manufacturing defect isolated to a specific part, and if that part was re-engineered, tested and installed and the whole aerial assembly was tested and certified (third party) I still dont have an issue on a re-sell.
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    I too remember the failure having nothing to do with the basket other than it hit the ground unexpectedly. If the aerial was repaired and re-certified by a third party, then why another failure of the same device? Was it truely re-certifed by an INDEPENDENT third party or is the whole damn contraptionion jinxed and is a heap that needs to go away. For what they paid for it USED, they could buy an aluminum aerial thats built in Florida. They have never had one go down, new or used (Just had to throw that in there, LOL).
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by STATION2
    I too remember the failure having nothing to do with the basket other than it hit the ground unexpectedly.
    LOL

    Details, details.

    I sure as heck wouldn't want to climb it.

    Who had the E-One cylinder failure... Chicago? Atleast one department did, and the aerial did not fall from the sky. It was attributed to a maintenance issue... but call it what you want. It still didn't drop.
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    Default Pierce Skyarm Failure

    One point that I haven't seen mentioned was that Pierce bought the assets (designs and products) of NovaQuintech formely Thibault etal... So regardless they (Pierce) are responsible as they assumed the product from Novaquintech on the assumption that they would have something to compete againest the Bronto HDT model... NOT!!!

    In my opinion it is a design failure in the weld design on the base section but regardless Pierce is totally responsible and shouldn't try to blame sabotage as I not buying that.. That's like Pierce claiming there aren't any problems with their All Steer!!!

    Furthermore, I know for a fact that Pierce sent out a crew in a Penske Rental Truck across Canada and the US to repair the welds on the Skyarms/Skypods in service, so obviously they knew there was an inherent vice or problem in the product.

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    There is really no details to explain. The bucket hit the ground because the aerial it was attached to failed. The failure came from an area in the bed section where a top rail ties into another section in the imediat area above the turntable. The photos of the incident clearly shows it.

    As for the E-One cylinder seperating, yes it was Chicago and the "Main" stayed in the air as you mentioned.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    "I think they got their money's worth when they bought this."

    They got their money's worth alright.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STATION2
    There is really no details to explain.
    (I was bein' sarcastic in downplaying the significance! )
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