Thread: Strike !!!!!!

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    Question Strike !!!!!!

    Before anyone starts flaming me..... I do not want to put anyone in danger or allow them to loose any property, but we have to do something.
    I'm sure this is not the best solution (not my favorite), however I will stand behind my Brothers and Sisters.

    Just want to hear some opinions.

    Here is a link to the Newspaper article.http://nwitimes.com/articles/2005/08...520007b63e.txt

    All the TV stations are talking about it, but I can't find a link.
    I'm sure I'll have more soon.

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    Unhappy Bad Link?????

    That didn't work !!!!

    One More Try......


    A little way down the page:
    Gary Firefighters Authorize Strike
    Last edited by GhettoTruck; 08-03-2005 at 08:41 PM.

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    Public safety departments in Massachusetts are forbidden to strike by state law. By our contract, we cannot engage in any work stoppage or slowdown.

    I think that the Gary Firefighters will end up shooting themselves in the foot if they go on strike.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Exclamation I hear ya Cap!

    ......Yeah, we do a lot of foot shootin' around here!

    We were advised by our legal council.
    We will be ordered back to work as soon as it happens.

    ......More later

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    I've unfortuneately been through Gary,IN and I've met some brothers from there. That city is circiling the toilet, has been for years.

    I feel your pain...No realistic raises to pay the bills and for the record Truckie many on here probably don't understand the type of environment you are working under there bro. What is it one of your houses has for their patch? "We don't go to work...We go to War!" Anyone who has seen Gary IN would understand why.

    To relate it to other areas for those not in the know in terms of crime, fires and money problems it is as bad if not worse than, East St. Louis,IL; Camden,NJ;Kansas City, Kansas;Toledo, Ohio;Lawrence, MA or any other smaller, former working, class suburb. While areas of New York, LA, Chicago, Philly, Baltimore, DC...etc have ghettos the type of situation you find yourself in is much different where the entire city is economicly depressed.

    I doubt you can relate your circumstances to many people on here as it seems to me live in and work in comfortable cities with relatively good pay, low crime and nice facilites. Also combine that with many who take themselves way too seriously as if we are priests who have taken a vow of poverty. Many have extreemly idolistic views and it leads me to believe they never lived paycheck to paycheck.

    Also as for shooting yourselves in the foot...can't get any lower than the bottom...aka=Gary.

    My dept called a strike before and so has the police dept here in the 1970s. For the cops anyhow it paid off in big dividens at the time.

    I wish you guys the best and always remember to look out for your family and the brothers first...then you can worry about the unsympathetic and unapricative public.

    You can't ruin public perception if they already don't care about you.

    FTM-PTB

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    To relate it to other areas for those not in the know in terms of crime, fires and money problems it is as bad if not worse than, East St. Louis,IL; Camden,NJ;Kansas City, Kansas;Toledo, Ohio
    HUH ?> Toledo has money trouble but it in NO WAY has the urban blight to which you are referring. Kind of a slap in the face.
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    Hey GhettoTruck, I'm sure whatever you guys in Gary decide to do Your brothers in the IAFF will back you to the hilt. A strike is rough no matter where, but in the fire service it's doubly hard. I'm just glad in my jurisdiction we have binding arbitration
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

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    Your brothers in the IAFF will back you to the hilt.
    Yeah, no doubt that a labor union will back people who don't want to work. Any firefighter who would even consider striking should be terminated. This isn't like a print shop or a carpentry union....you strike, people die. I hope you like that on your shoulders.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Lightbulb Not a strike per-say

    You can picket city hall off duty. You can take out full page ads in the newspaper. You can let the public know just how MUCH the city leaders care about the people they serve.
    There are ways of sending a message without a work stoppage or slowdown.
    Good luck to you guys in Gary.
    IAFF

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    Default Facts......

    We will not stop working.......Period.

    We will, however, be doing an "Informational Picket" (1 day only) to get our message out to the public.

    How it is here.............some understand, some have no clue.
    Wages are just the begining, not the only thing we have had long standing issues with.

    Tiller: It is against the law to strike..... We should be "Locked Up" if we strike.

    Slap in the face
    ?????

    I like "urban blight"......I would just prefer a little better compensation and better working conditions in return for showing up every day.

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    Sorry Ghetto, I thought you were advocating a strike.

    Yeah, any public safety employee who strikes should be tossed in the klink.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

    "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

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    Ghettotruck - I spent the first 18 years of my life just south of Merillville. I've been to your city plenty of times. Heck, the last time I was there we were coming back from Chicago and when we finally got through Gary I had a bullet hole in my truck.
    Keep trying guys. It'll happen. Never give up.

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    Default History of firefighter strikes

    Municipal firefighters have gone on strike in three periods in the last fifty years.

    They went on strike for better working conditions between 1918 – 1921

    These strikes forced municipal governments to go to a two-platoon system, increase pay or gain the right to form a labor organization that would be recognized by the municipality.

    The aftermath of the Boston Police Strike that started on Sept 9, 1919, reduced the value of strikes and labor organizations. Twenty percent of new firefighter locals withdrew from the IAFF in 1920 in response to the public furor after the BPD strike.

    They went on strike to preserve wages and staffing between 1931 – 1933

    The 1929 stock market crash started the Great Depression. One local went on strike because it had not been paid by the city for two months. Seattle firefighters were required to take two 25 day furloughs in 1933 – the city also closed seven fire stations and eliminated eight engine companies, two hose companies, two fire boats and one truck company.

    A study of 39 firefighter strikes and lockouts between 1900 and 1937 showed about half of the strikes resulted in partial or complete victory by labor. The survey showed only one large loss fire during a strike – an industrial fire in Pittsburgh

    They went on strike for staffing, wages and contracts between 1973 - 1980

    Most of these strikes occurred after labor and management reached an impasse while negotiating a new contract. Many cities were facing bankruptcy. New York City laid off 40,000 city employees on July 2, 1975 – including 1600 FDNY firefighters. While 700 were hired back within 30 days, 900 lost their permanent jobs. It took over two years for FDNY to rehire the laid-off firefighters that wanted to come back on the job.

    FDNY went on a 5.5 hour strike in 1973
    San Francisco went on a 38 day strike in 1975
    Memphis firefighters, police, teachers and sanitation workers were on strike in 1978
    Chicago went on strike for 23 days in 1980

    Unlike the firefighter strikes between 1900 and 1939, the strikes between 1973 and 1980 were not very successful. Many municipalities passed ordinances making it illegal for public safety workers to strike. Generally, there was a net loss in terms of pay, benefits or other firefighter issues when the strike was settled.

    Changes in the federal response also affect the value of strikes. While strikes were illegal, the 1970 strike by the postal employees resulted in the type of success that pre-1940 firefighter strikes enjoyed.

    There was a different response to the 1981 strike by the air traffic controllers. PATCO, the labor organization, was at an impasse with the Federal Aviation Administration. Recalling the Boston 1919 strike, President Reagan fired every striking employee and decertified the union. None of the striking PATCO workers were ever hired back. Many of the PATCO officials were subjected to years of aggressive litigation by the federal government.

    For more information go to:
    Chapter 5: Organized Labor and the Fire Officer
    Fire Officer: Principles and Practice
    Go here for more info about book:
    http://www.nvcc.edu/home/mward/hmtl%...ook%20info.htm

    Background:
    Much of this information was from a report I submitted in 1990 about municipal firefighter strikes for a research institution. I spent a couple of days at the National Fire Academy library and found very little information about the 1973-1980 strikes. If you only referenced the fire service trade publications you would have had little awareness of the significant turmoil most large city fire departments were going through.

    Tillerman25 – a PGFD fire commissioner’s dad was part of the 1970 postal worker strike. Should he have been fired for participating in an illegal strike of a federal employee?
    Last edited by MikeWard; 08-07-2005 at 11:34 AM. Reason: grammar, spelling, editing

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    Default Mike

    Would the Postal Strike have caused Injury, Death or Loss of property? If so, yes.

    Any "public safety" employee who is striking, is not working. If a group of "public safety" employees don't work, than the public is not safe, and they should be fired or have criminal charges brought against them.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Quote Originally Posted by TillerMan25
    Yeah, no doubt that a labor union will back people who don't want to work. Any firefighter who would even consider striking should be terminated. This isn't like a print shop or a carpentry union....you strike, people die. I hope you like that on your shoulders.
    That my friend is none of your business. You don't get to decide who is allowed to go on strike and who isn't. If the employer or local government doesn't want the fire service to be allowed to legally strike then there is a simple solution, provide binding arbitration, the fact that some employers still do not proves a simple point, they are more interested in money then safety, don't try to blame this on firefighters. Any firefighter would not even consider strike action unless all other avenues had previously been exhausted
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

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    Default smoke20286

    When the public is put in jeopardy because Public Safety employees can't play nice with city managers, IT IS MY BUSINESS! SCREW YOUR UNION!~

    This is the EXACT reason why Public Safety Unions are BAD for services. The public is always on the bad end of some STUPID LABOR DISAGREEMENT.

    Any Firefighter who would consider a strike PERIOD should be working in a fricking DRIVE THRU.

    I love to hear you Union Guys cry about getting terrible pay for something I do for FREE!
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

    "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

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    Actually no, you don't get to screw my union. Thanfully, more intelligent people then you usually end up running the country and the country's judiciary. Otherwise we could end up with the same sort of dictatorship that the Nazi's espoused. IIRC they did not like unions either.

    Go take your anti-union tirades elsewhere
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

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    ding ding .................I think it gonna "be on" !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    There was a different response to the 1981 strike by the air traffic controllers. PATCO, the labor organization, was at an impasse with the Federal Aviation Administration. Recalling the Boston 1919 strike, President Reagan fired every striking employee and decertified the union. None of the striking PATCO workers were ever hired back. Many of the PATCO officials were subjected to years of aggressive litigation by the federal government.
    President Reagan did the right thing. ATC not only provide for commerical traffic but they literally save our lives every day by their actions.

    When you decide (note the word-decide) to become an employee of an agency, a fire department, that is charged with protecting the public you now have a moral obligation to fulfill your duties. While all steps up to but not including a strike are understandable, a strike hurts innocent people - people who pay their tax dollars for protection.

    Now having been a member of the IAFF I support wholeheartedly pay and benefits for the fire service. We all are paid far less than we deserve. We must raise families and have injuries taken care of-we deserve excellent healthcare and good wages. But that will not always be the case. Such is the lot of public service.

    The great thing about this Republic is that you can choose to find another department or career. No one forces you to be a firefighter. This is not Poland in the 70's or the former Soviet Union. You have a choice.
    Jacktee

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    When the public is put in jeopardy because Public Safety employees can't play nice with city managers, IT IS MY BUSINESS! SCREW YOUR UNION!~

    This is the EXACT reason why Public Safety Unions are BAD for services. The public is always on the bad end of some STUPID LABOR DISAGREEMENT.

    Any Firefighter who would consider a strike PERIOD should be working in a fricking DRIVE THRU.

    I love to hear you Union Guys cry about getting terrible pay for something I do for FREE!


    Tillerman25,

    We went for 7 years without a raise here in Lexington, KY. Our healthcare costs increased and I was actually taking home less each year. Our platoon had 22 quit for other jobs in a two year period. Prior to that it was unheard of for anyone to leave on their own. Of the 22, 15 were paramedics, forcing more green paramedics to ride solo without any experienced medics to back them up, is that good for service? How did we get there?

    Government hired a consultant to look at how to do things better. They proposed a new pay system with merit pay to replace the existing system of step increases. This changed for all government employees. They removed to ordinance for the step system but never put one in for the new merit system. For the next seven years we were told there was no money in the budget. The % of budget for salaries and benefits went from 54% of the budget to 46% after the new system. The government found the money to start a Purchase Development Rights for farm land in the county, attempted to condem the local water company, and even had faux brick crosswalks instaleld downtown. Is this good for the public?

    Moral was at a all time low. Most were working two or three jobs to keep afloat. Is this good for the public? Disability claims rocketed up, was better to be disabled than be on duty. Is this good for the public?

    The police lost even more than we did. Think they lost 20% of their department in the same time period. Is that good for the public?

    The only thing that stopped this was the local IAFF and FOP. The local council kept dragging their feet, so we went to the state. The state changed the statute and allowed for police and firefighters in our type city the right to collective bargain. In the law the only person in the local government who has to sign is the mayor, without any ratification by the council.

    Contrary to your anti-union stance we did not screw the city. We got to the level we would have been at under the old system with all the needed adjustments due to inflation, etc... No one has left. Some of the old timers are staying (30 year Captain still on the job). Moral is up.

    Now is our public better off with the union or without? Would low moral, unqualified personnel, inexperienced firefighters be better?

    Now stay in your job pretend you don't get a raise in seven years and see how you feel. You'd switch jobs.

    As you can see there are always two sides to the disagreement. You cannot just point at the union and say bad, bad, bad. There is always the government side, the side that would sell their own kids to get re-elected. It is not always the union side.

    As for the strike idea, do some research and see what is allowed. Work stoppage would get everyone striking a nice trip to jail. We can do informational pickets to inform the public of what is happening and what the consequences are. Work slow downs, red flu, and anything else that causes disruption of service is illegal.

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by TillerMan25
    This is the EXACT reason why Public Safety Unions are BAD for services. The public is always on the bad end of some STUPID LABOR DISAGREEMENT.
    It takes two to tango. The governing entity usually can claim as much (and probably more) blame as the firefighters.

    Quote Originally Posted by TillerMan25
    Any Firefighter who would consider a strike PERIOD should be working in a fricking DRIVE THRU.
    I agree 100%. There is absoloutely no reason for any sort of work stoppage when public safety is at stake. However, of the thousands of IAFF locals out there... How many do you hear about walking off the job?

    Quote Originally Posted by TillerMan25
    I love to hear you Union Guys cry about getting terrible pay for something I do for FREE!
    For whatever reason, cities with career firefighters decided that they needed them. This means that, as much as some of us are passionate about the work we do, it is a job. It is how we pay the bills and support families. All city employees -- even firefighters -- deserve to be treated fairly by their employers.

    Unfortunately, some places are interested in screwing their employees out of everything they can. It's good to have an organization to fight for our rights as employees.

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    I love to hear you Union Guys cry about getting terrible pay for something I do for FREE!
    You enjoy hearing men voice with their displeasure about how they are unable to bargain for an acceptable wage and work rules that are fair to both sides? They are unable to enjoy the balanced power structure that most US workers enjoy and you find pleasure in this? If you are so worried about public safety you and everyone else should be concerned with a content work force that is well paid and treated. A work force that isn't happy isn't going to run smoothly and will cause more problems in the long run.

    Your bitterness, ignorance and imatutrity is almost unbelivable...but comming from a vollie makes it more believable. I guess when you are chosen and promoted based on popularity and politics this is the intelligent thought process that one gets.

    Oh by the way...you've never done what we've done...Ever. (That includes supporting a family on our wages.) You can whine and bitch like the C*nt you apear to be...however it will still not change the fact that you are a volly buff(who if I recall needs to loose a few pounds) who wishes he got the respect he was seeking when he joined the East Cupcake Vol FD. Why did someone like you volly??? I'm sure it was so when at the bar you could claim you were a fireman...despite you actually work the fryer at Popeys Chicken. Many of you guys have the same MO....You didn't volunteer to be a plumber, traffic agent, Is that because you couldn't get a blue light and wear buffy T-Shirts from the last parade.

    Considering we are getting paid much more money than you are to do supposedly "the same thing" it would appear that you are the biggest fool out there...You are more than welcome to deprive your family of your time and company for less than market rate compensation...I'm sure your family enjoys not having you around...your kids most of all will benefit from the absence of your pompus & arogant attitude.

    All your neighbors who are getting you to save them the expense of a higher tax rate, I'm sure are laughing all the way to the bank.

    FTM-PTB

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    but comming from a vollie makes it more believable.
    We shouldn't paint all volunteers with the one brush, many are capable of understanding our issues quite well, however this person apparently is unable to see past his personal hatreds
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

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    Quote Originally Posted by cozmosis


    However, of the thousands of IAFF locals out there... How many do you hear about walking off the job?
    In my 20+ years on this job I have not heard of any such actions from an IAFF local....but How many VFD's have shut down because they didn't get the truck they wanted?

    The Unions mission is to work for its members, and secure a better wage and working conditions..Thats why I am a member of a union and will do what I have too, in order to make my life and my families life more secure and better.

    Tiller you are a very warped and spoiled person and it's a shame, it appears that your mouth move's before your brain is booted up, there is no doubt in my mind that you will lose your job because your mouth will get you in trouble. The justice will be you crying how you got screwed and what a jerk your employer is.....but you will take it like a man and bad mouth them every chance you get
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    Meanwhile back at the ranch, Ghettotruck is still in a mess. That is why we are here, to support our brothers and to learn. Isn't it?? For those of you who have never been to Gary, let alone fought a fire there, (GTruck, I used to do ridealongs back in the days of Squad2 and HIT2 and usually rode on Capt. Barksdales turn.) you cannot imagine the set of hazards and difficult situations they are in every day. Gary is a city swirling around the bottom of the bowl trying desperately to hold on. Some of the houses anre in BAD shape, (I remember old house 2 very well, with the burned out building behind it. Arson fire, Reggie told me.) Pay is bad, working conditions are bad, workload is insane. Especially for the Medics. I know a guy at 4's, who never looks rested even after two days off. The OT they are pulling because of staffing, the burnout rate on the EMS side is horrible.

    I feel for you brother. I hope a strike will not be necessary, but I can understand the desperation that you guys feel, almost hopelessness is the reason STRIKE even came into the vocab. I bet you a dollar to a donut that the vollies in the area will support you. Ask the Hobart guys what we said in S.Haven when their Mayor was trying to put them back to a messed up kind of combo dept. We said NO. So did Union, Lake Station, and all the rest around Hobart. The Brotherhood is strong in this area. We are all firefighters and we stand alone together! I know lots of vols who support the career guys and lots of career guys who go to fund raisers for the local vols departments. For all you twits on both sides of this fence, get a CLUE!!!

    WE ARE ALL IN THIS THING TOGETHER!
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
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    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

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