View Poll Results: Do you stop/

Voters
58. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes!

    54 93.10%
  • No!

    2 3.45%
  • Yes, if I got out of there before they show up

    2 3.45%
  • Don't care

    0 0%
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Baldwin Co., Alabama
    Posts
    129

    Question Would you stop?!?

    I'll give you people a incident that we just had a discussion on.

    You and your neighboring department have been at odds for a while now. You happen to be in their area when they get tones for a structure fire with comfirmed entrapment. You are less than a block from the reported fire, do you stop. The firefighter who shared this story didn't, because of the differences between the two departments. Personally I think not to stop is a disgrace to the fire service. Does someones life not matter enough to "help" a neighboring department for a couple minutes? What would you do?
    LT/EMT Wright
    I A C O J
    LOXLEY WARRIORS
    All opinions expressed are solely of my personal opinion and in no way reflect those of my department. This is for those of you who use a large stick to stir excrement.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    956

    Default

    I'd like to meet that guy, kick him in the shins, and oust him from the department for life. Even without gear, I'd still take my chances. Vent the hell out of the fire room, cover up as best as possible and go..while it still is not the smartest thing, it still is the right thing.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Emberxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    326

    Default

    We had this exact thing happen.

    The neighboring county department (in whose response district I happen to live, and who my father-in-law happens to work for ) is always at odds with us over who is in charge of calls that come in on the turnpike and 95 in certain areas. There is a lot of ill-will that's been generated over the years.

    We have two hospitals in our county and one in the neighboring county. Some areas in our county lie exactly between the hospital there and one in ours. If the patient requests it, we have to take them to the hospital of thier choice, and they always seem to choose the neighboring hospital.

    After dropping a pt off at that hospital, our rescue truck was on it's way back, not yet into our county when they responded to a house fire - and I can't remember how they found out about it, but I think that they actually saw some smoke - anyway they ended up being the first unit on scene and performed a rescue.

    There was never a question about what they would do. Animosity between departments is bad enough but there's no reason why citizens should be put in danger becaue of it.
    "When you throw dirt, you lose ground."

    IACOJ

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Baldwin Co., Alabama
    Posts
    129

    Default

    TrojanHorse,
    This person was not equipt with PPE nor in a department vehicle, and as far as screwing with your plan goes, the responding units are at best 2 minutes out if they were near by. Would you consider not having to commit resouces to a search aiding your plan? ----- On the other hand -------- I can agree someone could add to the problem if things were to go wrong. BUT, if you found the fire and smoke conditions in such a state that you could conduct a quick search would you?
    Last edited by loxfire16; 08-04-2005 at 08:08 AM.
    LT/EMT Wright
    I A C O J
    LOXLEY WARRIORS
    All opinions expressed are solely of my personal opinion and in no way reflect those of my department. This is for those of you who use a large stick to stir excrement.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    jaybird210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    911 N. Sycamore St. Yep, that's really our address.
    Posts
    2,604

    Default

    I didn't vote.

    There will be a great number of back and forths on this, as people argue over going in without PPE; is the FF covered under WC if he/she is acting as a private cictizen (as would be the case in this scenario), etc., etc., etc.

    The bigger problem I see is happening all over the fire service, and has been since its inception. And some days it makes me sick.

    We all have differences with our neighbors; that is understandable. What I take umbrage with are those agencies who can't put that nonsense aside for the betterment of the communities we serve. Chiefs that get into shouting matches at scenes; officers who openly mouth-off to other department chiefs at scenes; firefighters who won't do what another department's IC has asked them to do, even if it's the right thing. Just because that ********* from East Hickvilleton told me to.

    I view this as a bigger problem that chief officers and line officers are responsible for: to not particpate in these ****ing matches; to stop them in their own departments when they start; and to refuse to get pulled in by others.

    This business would be so much better served if we all stopped fighting over whose d!@% is bigger.
    Omnis Cedo Domus

    www.hinckleyfd.org

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    fireguy919's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    eastern Ohio
    Posts
    952

    Default

    With or with out gear I think I would stop. If nothing else they maybe a ladder or someone close might have one to put up it they are trapped in an up stairs. Even do a call into dispatch and advised them of what they have going. If everyone is out and no one told fd they are rolling in a lot hard than they need to be. I careless about ****ing matches. A person/s life is worth more than an imaginary line. And the *** chewing that comes later. No gear and no ppe does not mean you can not assist some how.
    Training does not make perfect. Training makes permanent!

    IACOJ probie

  7. #7
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Angry TWO POINTS............................

    1. I'd Stop, in a heartbeat. 47 years in this business, I've never knowingly passed someone needing help without stopping. (The peeing/moaning matches don't seem to be much of a problem here)

    2. Jaybird is Correct in his observations.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    Dave1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gator Country
    Posts
    4,157

    Default

    I didnt vote either. When I was a volunteer, I always had my PPE with me and the only way I would know about the fire is if one of our units was dispatched. In that case, yes I would. Now I am paid, dont have my PPE with me off duty and I wouldnt know about the call anyway (unless I saw the smoke).

    When I was a volunteer, I lived in another departments area and whent to a fee fires that were in my neighborhhod. I even used my car (with red light on) to block a busy road one night to protect a supply line.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
    RUSH-Tom Sawyer

    Success is when skill meets opportunity
    Failure is when fantasy meets reality

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    214

    Default

    Yes,I would have stopped. If nothing else, I could hit the hydrant, carry a ladder, kick LDH to the curb or something. All personal problems go to the back burner when there is an emergency. The wife and I have been on our way out for dinner, all showered and slicked up and I jumped out, geared up and put water on a car fire when I saw that towns engine arriving with only the driver.


    God bless and pull the ceiling as you go.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,226

    Default

    Would I stop? Perhaps.

    Would I attempt a rescue? Perhaps.

    Ambiguous enough for you? It would depend on a ton of factors. Situation upon my arrival. If I hear sirens or not. If I have turn-out gear or not. And frankly, where I was, city versus out in the boonies.

    Honestly, if I rolled up to a call with my career FD and saw some guy in turn-outs attempting a rescue my first thought would be whacker. Sorry if that offends some of you. But heck, didn't we just have a totally whacker FD in Illinois showing up on calls?

    I do often stop to see if assistance is needed at MVA's, or to assist our local EMS with lifting if they are short staffed.

    By the way this is not a career versus volly viewpoint. I am both and my feelings carry over to both FD's.

    FyredUp

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Berkshire County
    Posts
    140

    Default

    Hell Yea I would stop. A differance of opinion is fine, but its professionalism ALL THE WAY. I cant keep track of the guys that Ive worked with since my explorer days that have had a big differance of opinion/difficulties with other departments, other agencies(PD, EMS) and evan in house Officers. But what I can keep track of is the way that in affected them working with one another, IT DINT.. Thats Professionalism. Its also called having ETHICS.

    We participated in a hockey match in hampshire county between the county FD's and PD's. A guy or two from each participating department played. There was so much controversy bewteen the guys It was ridiculous. We had guys on MY team competeing against each other, because one felt he had more skills than the other and would try and score himself and a bunch of kidde stuff. It was chaos, plans were to settle everything outside later. But that didnt stop everyone from running down the street to a 2 car MVA and everyone working together to backboard and collar the vics.

    Just imagine 12 guys running down the street in full hockey gear, minus the skates of course, to board, collar and transport you.. Thats one thing I would never want to see... BUt pretty funny when we got the pics, from some citizen.
    Last edited by Rescuepimp; 08-04-2005 at 02:36 PM.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    npfd801's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Somewhere in Illinois
    Posts
    2,221

    Default

    Jaybird - I'll agree with your statements exactly. We've got a couple of neighbors that refuse to use mutual aid unless the world is ending, and would rather save foundations that start an auto aid agreement when we're easily 5-7 minutes closer to a good chunk of their district.

    We call everyone for help, even when we may not need it. Any possibility of needing help, and its called. We work well with others, in my opinion, and at least one guy on the forums here is on a deptartent we auto-aid with (he could vouch for us.) We don't step on toes, and in all honesty, just like the opportunity to help another department when given the chance.

    A bunch of departments here are training all of their recruits together through a cooperative effort. To me - this is a fantastic idea that only brings us closer together. And again, the two departments that rarely call for help are notably absent from that mix as well.

    Too much posturing and B.S. - no doubt about it.
    Last edited by npfd801; 08-04-2005 at 03:48 PM.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,531

    Default

    Way to many factors to accurately report what I would do- BUT, none of them would have to do with a riff with another department. When something is on fire, all the beefs have to take a break. At least until its out!
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    Dave1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gator Country
    Posts
    4,157

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    Way to many factors to accurately report what I would do- BUT, none of them would have to do with a riff with another department. When something is on fire, all the beefs have to take a break. At least until its out!
    Well said.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
    RUSH-Tom Sawyer

    Success is when skill meets opportunity
    Failure is when fantasy meets reality

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,656

    Default

    In this area, no. It has been made clear in no uncertain terms that even though we carry turnout gear in our vehicles we are NEVER to stop at an incident of any typeoutside of our district. It's just the way it is here .. and even though I may not like the rules, they are the rules I need to play by.

    If the situation came up in some of the areas I used to volunteer in, where inter-departmental relationships were much better, I might say yes. of course in those cases, I would not have gear, and if it was a working structure fire, it would be likely that we would have been called mutual aid, so I would actually be much more useful by not stopping and heading for my station.

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    95

    Default

    I may stop and see if I could determine the location of the victoms inside if there are any. Then let the first arriving officer know of there locations and go on my way. The best thing would be to stay out of there way and let them do there job. Save lives......
    Stay Safe and live long

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Cool

    Would I stop........I think I would.....would I atttempt a rescue ? that I dont know. I do have gear with me, but >>>>>>.............to many variables. But I can hook up a hydrant, flake out hose, and help them til other untis arrive. We also have a neighboring dept whom we have a strained relationship occassionally, it is markedly better, than in the past and I hope it continues to get better. I can also say it has never affected anything on a scene.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    FyrGuy176's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SouthEast Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    70

    Default

    I am in an area where most departments are staffed full time and we have mutual aide agreements with all neighboring departments. When mutual aide is activated we actually play pretty well together.

    I answered yes, I would stop. But I answered with the assumption that I was on duty, possibly returning from an area hospital, in the rescue squad, with a partner and we both have full turnout gear and SCBA's.

    As for off duty, I would have to see the incident happening as I rolled by and if the FD was not on scene I would stop and probably start a size up, ask if any entrapment, and so on. I could pas this info on to arriving units and then be on my way. No need to stay and play as I don't have gear with me and would probably just get in the way. Wouldn't want to step on anyones toes.
    Marc S.
    Firefighter/Paramedic
    Solon Local 2079

    (Previously posted as Hobbitt. Registered December '02,)

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    emtbff927's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    central Texas
    Posts
    331

    Default

    If it were your house would you want someone from the other department to stop and help?
    Even if not the rescue itself, there are numerous things that could be done to help facilitate a quicker rescue.

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Memphis Tn,USA-now
    Posts
    5,436

    Default

    In my county,only the city FFs have a full time job fighting fires.The rest of us get to volunteer to put wet stuff on red stuff.
    We stop,we inform the IC of our presence,we help out where we can.The only people that we are at odds with is the city FD because the Chief doesn't understand that volunteers are firefighters too.But we'd help them on a call if there was a need.

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    CVFD5342's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Belvidere/ Cherry Valley
    Posts
    41

    Default

    npfd801- You hit it on the nose. I have only been on a few short years but almost everyone helps everyone else out around here. A couple of departments just dont get it. Then there are departments like yours that when you come to help its hard to tear you away(we appreciete it also). So depending on the situation I would use my little knowledge to make a judgement call. Right or wrong I would sitck to that judgement and if I was wrong learn from it.

  22. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    478

    Default

    I would stop to render aid, we are very rural and the responce time can be 20 min. away. Gear or not (i have mine in my truck) there are things a FF can do, make sure everyone is out, or in our area just go to the road and show were to turn in. (one pig trail looks like another)
    Stay Safe ~ The Dragon Still Bites!

  23. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Menasha, Wi, USA
    Posts
    12

    Default What is there to think about

    Why wouldn't you stop?????? I would like to think we are all in this for the same reason, to help people. Even if you don't go and get a rescue, at least stop and see if there is anything you can do to help. Get over your stupid arguments and help a fellow fire department out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    I'm sorry, I think I might have missed something in the original post. In the original situation, was the person in question in his POV or department apparatus? Because I think those are two completely different situations.

    if I was in department apparatus, with gear, then absolutely I would stop. no doubt about it. if they local department got ****ed, oh well.

    in my POV, maybe not. if I didn't have gear, then probably not. not much more I will be doing than the cop who is probably already there. plus, it's not my area, so I don't know who will be showing up. the only thing I will be is a well informed spectator.

    edited to add: now that I think about it, if I didn't have gear, I might stop. I probably WOULD NOT go inside, but I'd bang of the doors, and try to wake anyone who is still asleep, or help anyone that was trapped to the best of my ability, using the tools that I have at my disposal. but you probably wouldn't see me doing an interior search, too risky.
    Last edited by DrParasite; 08-05-2005 at 11:59 PM.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  25. #25
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Thumbs up And........................... .

    After reading these posts, I realized how much better off I am than some others. Mutual/Auto aid here where I am is NOT optional. Nor is it flexable. You WILL participate. Our system provides for a specified minimum assignment for a report of an emergency, and that is what goes. With a Structure assignment of 4 Engines, 2 Ladder Trucks, A Heavy Rescue, an EMS unit and a couple of Chiefs, you are going to have units from different VFDs running together on every call. You are not able to opt out, Everyone plays by the same rules, or you're gone. We don't allow political boundaries to get in the way either, your First Due consists of whatever area that you are closer to than anyone else. For example, we are located in an unincorporated area, but we are first due over a square mile of an adjacent City, because we are closer than any of the City's stations. With this type of operation, the real winners are the Taxpayers. Regardless of who they pay taxes to, they're getting the closest help, Always.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register