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  1. #1
    Permanently Removed hoseheadmaps's Avatar
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    Default FDNY Chiefs' Union Pres Says Don't Volunteer

    i wonder if he has a D.N.R bumper sticker on his car in case he get's into an accident. DO NOT RESCUE - unless your paid.


  2. #2
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Default

    and I wonder why a guy in PA is worried about what firefighters in New York do?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  3. #3
    Forum Member Spectre08's Avatar
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    Default

    Probably because the FDNY is a HUGE leader in the business. And their words and actions set a big example that many people follow or look to as precident.

    If it were some small town chief in Nowhere, Ohio, I'd say...big deal. But this is the FDNY Chiefs' Union President.
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

  4. #4
    Permanently Removed hoseheadmaps's Avatar
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    Default

    i wonder what a guy from nj is doing worring about what a guy in pa is posting

  5. #5
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    I don't think it really matters, the fact is that many cities/townships/villages cannot afford full time firefighters (including mine). Do you really think that 80% or whatever the number is of vol. fire houses are just going to go full time/paid? Never happen.
    EMT-B
    Garfield Twp. Fire Department
    http://www.garfieldfire.com

  6. #6
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    Default 2 Hatter Question

    If I am a career firefighter, plus a volunteer somewhere else and get hurt while at a volunteer fire department job, who pays me when I don't make it in to work at the paying job?

    And to they have to wait for me to return, or can they get rid of me?

  7. #7
    Permanently Removed hoseheadmaps's Avatar
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    Default

    if your hurt while performing your duties as a volly your covered under workmans comp thru your local municipality.

  8. #8
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    Default

    I wonder why it matters that it is the FDNY? It could have been any career department, it's still ludicrous.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

    "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

  9. #9
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    This should generate some debate ...............I think it is a shame that these FT people who can bring so much to a volly or POC ..by their own choice cant do it.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
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  10. #10
    Forum Member fireguy919's Avatar
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    just wonder at what point the union will tell them they can not ride motorcycles or what to do on vacation because they might get hurt. this is the bussiness though. If the paid guys want to volunteer I'm sure they are asking what happens if they are hurt and can not work. I did and i work a non union job. I can understand both sides i made sure what happened if i was down.
    Training does not make perfect. Training makes permanent!

    IACOJ probie

  11. #11
    Permanently Removed hoseheadmaps's Avatar
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    isn't it funny how the unions come out ******ing and moaning how lives are going to be lost, both firefighters and civilian ,response times will increase and a bunch of other "the world is coming to an end rhetoric" when cities need to downsize and close a few houses and cut staff, but it's quite ok for the union prez to tell the members who volunteer that they can't do it anymore, won't this put lives in jeopardy and increase response time (less vollies). go figure, who knew that the residents lives who live in areas that are served by vollies aren't worth anything. it's all about the all mighty dollar.

  12. #12
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    Why is it that doctors, nurses, surgeons, police officers, laywers, engineers, etc are not prohibited from volunteering as firefighters...just career firefighters. Especially when some of them have grown up, live in and got there start in a community server by volunteer firefighters?

    I read a while back that municipalites who career firefighters weren't permitted to volunteer on there own time wouldn't be able to received federal grants...any truth to that?

  13. #13
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    This is a topic that comes up quite frequently and usually ends up in a big argument........

    I can see both sides of the argument, but still doesn't seem right to me....
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

  14. #14
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    A union's job is to protect it's members. That is it's number 1 concern and it should be.

    If anyone's volunteer department is that strapped for membership that losing 1 or 2 guys is going to seriously hamper your department, you are already in trouble. Do you never have fires when these guys may be working? Get real, this will actually have very little impact on most departments.

    And yes, I am on a volunteer department where there are about 1/2 dozen FDNY guys living part time in their wife's house . They don't volunteer with us and it's no big deal. They are friends, we talk about the different fire cultures, and life goes on.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  15. #15
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    It kind of makes me laugh, now, when this topic comes up. I am not a member of FDNY, but my department, and my Local both prohibit all sworn members from volunteering. I agree with the policy 100%.
    Notice how I worded my statement, my department along with my Local. My department had the policy in place first, and the union agreed for other reasons, just well after the city effected the policy.
    It is too complex of an issue for simple answers. Most of the replies so far don't reach too deeply in thought for a serious answer.

    Looking at this issue from a city/department perspective, it's just another rule they have in place that we agreed to, at our time of hire. We abide by rules regarding dress, residency, the way we act, the way we groom and so on. If you agree to it when sworn in, then you abide by it until you are no longer employed.
    The union perspective is also very easy to understand. Why would I go and do the exact same job for free? That makes no sense, period.
    Most of the people who gripe about the IAFF stance regarding volunteering, on these boards, really don't understand the policy. The metro D.C. guy's do, if they take an objective look at the policy, rather than letting politics haze their vision.
    There are other factors to consider though, heart and lung bills, presumptive cancer legislation and the like. These are many of the reasons my local used in deciding to put the policy into practice. These are benefits we, as a local fought for. If, by chance I contract heart disease, and I am a volunteer also, I could have to fight to for either jurisdiction to recieve my benefit. Who would pay? My career job, or my volunteer? They could both potentially dispute my claim, and I could never prove which fire, or which department caused my illness. Thats the last fight, or activity I want to do if I'm sick.
    By the way, were it not for the efforts of the IAFF, the volunteer departments in my area would NOT have those same benefits. The union's never charged them a cent.

  16. #16
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    Default

    I would love to see this challanged in court. I don't believe the your employer or union has a right to tell you what you can do on your own time. As long as you are not breaking the law.It should be the FF's choice.

    FDNY Union
    This is my opinion and in no way represtents the opinion of my department.

  17. #17
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    Default My experience

    I have worked in the past with guys who volunteered in their community on the side.

    I think its usually a personal predudice against vollies, at least its what i've seen and felt. Most won't admit it but it is.

    The vollies do help create some of the problems too. I see a great amount of pride that they have in their vollie department, and they ask and expect no compensation. But with their paid job, they complain about pay and benefits like everyone else. How can it be both ways? Is it the job or the compensation? That is noticed.

    Also, i have seen communities that can afford a paid department, but they won't because they don't have to cause guys will always do it as volunteers. Many volunteers don't want their department to go paid because they lose alot of the control and "relaxed" atmosphere. I am only speaking of the vollies that are also paid somewhere else, the others are a different story. Many of them don't want their department to go paid because they may not qualify under the new hiring requirments.

    I know that its things like this that have made me kind of "second look" vollies. It may not be right, but hey, i am honest.

  18. #18
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    Is it fair for your paid department to loose you to an injury that occurred on a volunteer run? What is it going to cost them in overtime to cover your shift and if you are disabled how much to replace you (hiring process, training, etc...)? If most city's have a risk management department as uptight as our this crosses their minds everyday. Do they want to risk their resource that they paid for (through training) to be lost on something outside of work? The danger in our department would be getting injured while volunteering and having to go on disability. Since it is an off the job injury you would only have what you paid into your pension paid out. As opposed to an on the job injury which would be between 60-75% of salary tax free for life. Is it worth the risk?

    Alot of people are throwing around workers compensation will pay. That depends on the laws/ statutes of your state or commonwealth. Each state is different. What might be true in one state may not be true in another.

  19. #19
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    Default List.....

    of other things you can get hurt doing while off-duty. I guess the IAFF will ban these activities too:

    Driving
    Mowing the Lawn (might lose a foot)
    Painting your house (Might fall of a ladder)
    Cleaning your gutters
    Using a Table Saw to build a tree fort for your kids
    Cutting firewood
    Going to the Bank (God knows when it could be robbed and you get shot)
    Swimming (Might drown)
    Boating (Might fall overboard)
    Showering (Could slip and break your neck)
    Grilling (Might get burned)
    Changing your Oil (Car might fall on you)
    Changing a tire on the freeway (Might get hit by a Semi)
    Shoveling snow (Might slip on ice and break your back)
    Playing ssprts with friends and family (Flag football can get rough)

    SO when can we expect the IAFF resolution banning all members to sitting in a rubber room with football helmets on so they don't injure themselves?

    This is ridiculous and once again, a ploy by the IAFF to use it's individual locals to get rid of Volunteers in Combination Fire Departments and VFD's in Close proximities to large cities, simply to bring more dues in.

    When is Harold S--tBird going to just admit it and stop waffling? Jeez, no wonder he backed John Kerry.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

    "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

  20. #20
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=lexfd5]Is it fair for your paid department to loose you to an injury that occurred on a volunteer run? What is it going to cost them in overtime to cover your shift and if you are disabled how much to replace you (hiring process, training, etc...)? If most city's have a risk management department as uptight as our this crosses their minds everyday. Do they want to risk their resource that they paid for (through training) to be lost on something outside of work? [QUOTE]

    That's a **** poor argument......... What happens if you injure yourself doing anything off duty??? My fiance broke her wrist rollerblading a month ago. She had to have surgery to fix it. Guess what......... She has health insurance to pay for the injury and she had to use her vacation and sick time to pay for her time off work. You know what happened when she ran out of those???????? She was off without pay....... Employers must make plans for that kind of situation. If they don't, it's their problem.

    If you stand by your argument you made above, I would have to guess that you just sit at home on your days off and do nothing because you can't risk getting hurt. No mowing the lawn, no playing with the kids, no exercising....... Nothing....
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

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