Being Politically Correct means always having to say you're sorry.
I have now reached a point where I simply do not care anymore about offending the sensibilities of others based solely on this assinine notion of political correctness. We are censoring thought, original thought, in order to hear contrived answers that supposedly benefit the good of all. Questions are put out with apologies extended in case it offends someone. Answers are deeply hidden within a maze of words that offer nothing substantive.
This happens in the fire service. Instead of saying that a high crime area is a high crime area people state that social ills exist. Really? Social ills exist everywhere and changing the name of it does nothing to address it.
A person who posts here sent me an e-mail saying that it is sad we don't say what we mean. I thought about that - he is right in some instances. The problem is that when something is said and is unpopular (as opposed to untrue) we await censure by others. Will I offend someone?
Perhaps that is one reason that we see a great deal of "My Favorite Helmet" threads and less of threads that could actually make a difference. For me, even with the people with whom I argue brutually on issues - I respect that at least they speak up (they are in the arena) - rather than timidly reading on for fear of having a moment of clarity!
Now my pulse is back to normal. Thanks for reading.
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Thread: Politically Correct Rant
08-10-2005, 08:23 PM #1
Politically Correct Rant
Last edited by JackTee09; 08-10-2005 at 08:58 PM.Jacktee
"Insert quotation here."
08-10-2005, 08:50 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jul 2001
- Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
I'm offended by this post.....Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
"I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
— C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"
08-10-2005, 11:14 PM #3
- Join Date
- Jun 2003
- Westlake, Ohio
I was watching some show on violent juvenile offenders, and I swear they spent almost as much time talking about the perps' tales of woe as they did about their crimes. I get tired of it, too. It's about time we hold people accountable for their actions instead of excusing them and start telling the cold, hard, honest truth about a lot of the social ills that exist in our society today.
08-10-2005, 11:40 PM #4
I'm with you man!! I have very distinct opinions on a lot of things and have no qualms with voicing them, however, I do get an awful lot of censuring looks and tsk tsk's. I say WHATEVER, I have a brain, God gave it to me, I'm intelligent and I'm vocal....... sue me. If you don't like what I have to say then cover your ears and sing la la la. Our society has become WAY too PC, I mean, be respectful....... but since when is kissing a person's *** to avoid hurting their feelings PC? Since when is it ok for those who immigrate to MY country to dictate how they should be treated here...... because THIS is what went on in their country; hey buddy, newsflash, if your country was so damn good then why are you here? You came to MY country, you live by the laws and culture in MY land, you want your culture? Go home. I don't care if some think this is rude, I'm being realistic. We are losing ground all the time because we have to change the way we do things, we have to eliminate things that have been a part of our culture forever because some jag off immigrates here and starts squawkin'. I think my biggest pet peeve is when I have to phone some gov't office and I can't understand a damn word the person on the other end is saying because they don't have a command of the English language ...... WTF???? How'd they get that job? It irks me that the majority of the people who come to MY country want things to be done their way and our gov't dictates that we give in...... if I went to their country ...... I'd be shot or jailed very soon after stepping foot on their soil because I don't conform well, and I'm sure they wouldn't be tolerant of MY beliefs and MY culture; so why do we bend over backward to accomodate? I firmly feel that if you come to my country you need to learn to live by the rules and laws of my country, you need to be accomodating and LEARN my culture and meld in with ME and not vice versa. (I better add that I have friends who have immigrated from other countries, who don't expect us to change for them, who manage to keep their culture alive within their own homes while embracing the new culture that they have "chosen" for their family. They work and contribute to society, they love their new country and are proud to be a part of it. They ask for nothing and give much. Isn't this the way it should be?)
I work on a construction site doing first aid/safety officer and it's amazing how skittish guys are around a female in a male dominated workplace. The first few days were looooooong and boring because they were very 'correct'. After a few days of listening to me joke around and banter with them they loosened right up. I'm not gonna go cry sexual harassment because someone told a dirty joke or made an off color comment, more than likely I've got one to send right back atcha. If it's really bad, I have no qualms about telling you that you've crossed a line, and generally, in my experience, merely pointing that fact out is enough. Work should be a place that you can be comfortable and have some sort of fun while performing your duties, all while maintaining your professionalism of course.......... it should not be a place to feel uncomfortable or like you are walking on egg shells. I'd rather be thought of as one of the guys than as the chick you have to watch yourself around.
I'm all for PC in the correct forum, I don't agree with the usage of racial slurs, yet I will laugh at a race based joke ........ not because I'm racist, but because I enjoy a good joke. I laugh at man jokes and I laugh at women jokes ...... and so on. A joke is a joke, they all originate somewhere and I have a hard time believing that something designed to make me laugh so hard I need to cross my legs was originated in hatred. I say to those who take offense, loosen up and find your funny bone. If you can't laugh at yourself you'd better take a good long look around you cuz we're all laughing at ya
Suddenly there are rights for every Tom, Dick and Harry.......... every walk of life...... single,white, black, orange, gay, straight, citizen or immigrant ...... how the hell do you keep up? Whatever happened to simple human rights? The Golden Rule....... did that suddenly become too complex to follow? Now we have to be scared to say what's on our minds, to speak our true feelings because someone MIGHT take offense and cry foul? What does that make us then....... a society of phoney talking 'fraidy cats. Yeah, this is good
Opinions are great things, they are yours AND it doesn't matter if others agree or not, they don't have to. They also don't have to listen to your opinions, they are allowed to have theirs. Somewhere along the way this concept has been lost, and our opinions have now become censored and we are TOLD what we are supposed to say and think, how we are supposed to act.......... and all because we might hurt someone's feelings. I say, grow thicker skin, dont' sweat the small stuff, open your mouth if something bothers you and MOVE ON. Why must society as a whole be subjected to this silliness we call PC? Who decides what's PC and what's not? Who makes these rules........ I don't recall being asked. Oh, I forgot, I no longer have an opinion, that has been dictated for me by the powers that be.
Also, edited to add...... a lack of accountability/responsibility is wearing at the very fabric of our society. I see an every man for himself attitude, admit nothing, deny everything, blame someone else, blame your upbringing, blame your addiction........ anything but take the blame on yourself. It's sad and it's sickening.
Sometimes I think that those who make the most noise about so-called PC faux pas contribute more to the problem than those that they are pointing the finger at.
Edited to add: I do not in anyway, shape or form condone what hate groups do to others. I do not condone the mantra that certain ethnic groups follow. My point is that there are extremes in the spectrum, we should be able to live happily in the medium without infringing upon anyone.
Last edited by PFire23; 08-11-2005 at 12:00 AM.To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.
GO WHITE SOX!!!!!
08-11-2005, 01:13 AM #5
And who is to say you are correct or not?Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.
08-11-2005, 01:24 AM #6
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
Well...I'm screwed. I didn't know there was a rule book out there about how I should express my opinions or thoughts.
Seriously...I do agree that the PC cops are everywhere and that they are well-funded because there are certainly more of them than there are firemen. I mean...If it looks like poo, smells like poo, ITS POO! The truth does not have to be painfull.....
08-11-2005, 01:36 AM #7
Wow. Not sure there's anything left to say - PFire pretty much covered the whole range (Ummm, PFire, you're not offended are you )!!
But seriously folks...
The crux of this whole sticky mess we've gotten into in our society is this...each of us is guilty of helping it along. I know that we would all deny it, but hey, it's a little something called human nature. Blame Darwin - it's Evolution baby, 'The Survival of The Fittest'.
Let me try to explain...How many times have you been with a group of people and the one guy with the dissenting opinion gets so harranged that he either blows apart or just gives up? So, let's say you're the guy who thinks that (just as an example) forcing School Principals in Dallas to speak Spanish because for 43% of the student base in that city it's their native language - is wrong. Now you want to stand up and yell and scream about how asinine of a proposal that is, but all of the other people in the room think it's a wonderful idea. These kids will get a better education if the parents have a contact that they can understand, they'll be more involved. There will be fewer drop-outs, less drug-use, and the sky will always be blue and the sun will always shine.
So how far do you go in speaking out?
Human nature is cruel. Let's look at another example...oh, I don't know...how about...oh wait - these forums! If you say something that someone doesn't agree with, there are those that will offer an opposing opinion in a way meant to teach and to discuss. There are, however, those that immediately pounce on you like a pit bull on a pork chop - and enjoy chewing you to pieces just about as much.
Once you've spent an entire topic defending yourself you'll think twice about speaking your mind. Again, human nature.
I don't know. It's a catch 22. ~scratching my head~ You see, what we need is for everyone to be nice so that people won't be so afraid to have an opinion and not have to be so nice!
I don't know....just my 2 cents at 1:30 am - maybe not the best explanation, but I'm hoping you guys (oops, and girls...sorry...don't want to offend anyone ~grinz) will get the gist of it and not look at me like I'm 'the other white meat'!
Last edited by Emberxx; 08-11-2005 at 01:42 AM."When you throw dirt, you lose ground."
08-11-2005, 02:03 AM #8
Ever look at the Websters definition of "Public Forum?"
Main Entry: public forum
: a place that has a long-standing tradition of being used for, is historically associated with, or has been dedicated by government act to the free exercise of the right to speech and public debate and assembly.
So....when we switch the first word to "Firehouse"....does that dictate that we lose the right to express ourselves, fearing retribution from those we may offend?
Political correctness? From whose point of view? From which perspective?
Your understanding of political correctness may differ from others.
Quite simply....don't ever be afraid to express your views. It is your right, your priviledge. Do it tactfully and be respectful of those who disagree with them.
Political correctness....the gospel according to whom?Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones
*Gathering Crust Since 1968*
On the web at www.section2wildfire.com
08-11-2005, 02:19 AM #9
The problem as I see it is that people are notoriously poor at knowing where to draw the line. A person in a room full of friends may act appropriately, but when put into a room full of unfamiliar people who they may perceive to be opponents, they can quickly swing to the extreme end of the spectrum without adequate controls.
An extreme example of this is that at hundreds of points in the history of man (some very recent), entire countries or religions have felt it quite reasonable to commit genocides or other acts of mass atrocity against their perceived enemy (usually just a group with a different way of thinking or doing things). PC'ness is simply our way of policing ourselves as a group and keeping our actions moderate.
How does that relate to these types of forums? Well when you look at the pack mentality the can pervade a thread at the mention of blue lights or poker in the firehouse, you will see how even a group of reasonable, good people can get carried away at the expense of another contributor. This quickly undermines the value of any discussion and turns it into a flame war, and in most cases a locked or deleted thread.
If we can't keep each other in check through some reasonable form of etiquette, netiquette, or "PC'ness", we will not be able to keep many discussions within a reasonable framework where those original thoughts and ideas can be fully explored. As mentioned though, this can certainly go to the extreme where everyone fears to speak for risk of offending, and those original thoughts are not even raised. The balance is tough to call.
Some of us from another site (You know who you all are) can attest that a forum can be quite civil while still allowing the occasional F-bomb or exploring a radical thought process, but even over there remains a strong sense of what is reasonable. That structure is based on the traditional firehouse hierarchy, with a few leaders who set the boundaries, membership that is a subject to clear conditions, and where the consequences of violating the rules are known to all.
Unfortunately in a larger forum (including the public environment in general), where there is less structure, no recognized leadership, and no sense of loyalty, people tend to get defensive and shun radical thoughts for fear of where they will lead. I demonstrate this personally by not participating in threads with certain people or topics that I know tend to get out of control (this doesn't mean I won't watch it like a train wreck though ).
The social boundaries that are Political Correctness, are simply the only way we know how to bring order to a potentially chaotic environment. As alternate forms of leadership and structure are introduced to that environment, we usually see the need for PC'ness is diminished.Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!
08-11-2005, 08:40 AM #10If it's really bad, I have no qualms about telling you that you've crossed a line, and generally, in my experience, merely pointing that fact out is enough.
I'm all for PC in the correct forum, I don't agree with the usage of racial slurs, yet I will laugh at a race based joke ........ not because I'm racist, but because I enjoy a good joke. I laugh at man jokes and I laugh at women jokes ...... and so on.
08-11-2005, 08:45 AM #11
Civility and PC are, in my opinion, seperate. PC, as I am trying to describe, is not a narrow stroke. It is not politics alone, or crime (even though I used an example) nor is it rudeness. One can be straightforward and civil.
However, withholding your opinion based on what the "pack" here on the forums or in the house thinks is a waste of a good idea. Some are afraid to post or speak what they feel because they are conditioned to fear stepping outside the "pack" mentality.
I think I did a poor job of explaining exactly what I am trying to say.Jacktee
"Insert quotation here."
08-11-2005, 08:52 AM #12
Not being PC is not about abusing others. It is not about slamming minorities or anyone else. It is about being a moral person who recognizes the problem of keeping quiet when a voice is needed. It can be speaking up for someone that is being abused because of their race or religion.
Thats my opinion.Jacktee
"Insert quotation here."
08-11-2005, 08:53 AM #13Originally Posted by PFire23Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.
The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter!! Either side of the hill.
08-11-2005, 09:01 AM #14Originally Posted by ThNozzleman
Maybe you haven't noticed, but not everyone is laughing. Maybe you'd like to share some of your favorite racial jokes with us.
I posted what I did for a reason. First because it is my opinion and second to prove Jack's point. And yes there are PC police EVERYWHERE, one must watch what they say because someone will inevitably take issue/offense at some point.
Last edited by PFire23; 08-11-2005 at 01:57 PM.To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.
GO WHITE SOX!!!!!
08-11-2005, 09:48 AM #15
What you speak of here in the forums is a microcosm of what going on here in the country. I have noticed the good folk here are well informed on many levels. I think most have opinions and strong convictions but for various reasons keep them to themselves. Examples are having enough time to keep current with issues of interest to avoid foot in mouth disease or just hopelessness over an issue. Do I feel like being cut to shreds if I voice my opinion and I upset somebody? Will my voice make a difference anyway? The line that Nozz speaks of is very important to this issue. In my opinion the line gets moved by a small majority of activists that care enough, have time enough or get paid enough to define it. These activists have essentially muzzled the average Joe with slash and burn attack methods.Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.
The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter!! Either side of the hill.
08-11-2005, 10:00 AM #16
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
Being politically correct is an excuse for all the officers and members who abuse it to throw out good firemen because that member "keeps the officers and the members honest". It's a costly place to be. Now they (officers and powerful members) use this so called politically correct term to intimidate members who don't agree with them or my favorite "do as I say, but not as I do behavior" making it so that they fear thier future should they take someform of ownership to the organization they put thier lifes on the line for.
I salute the members who tell the truth and keep people honest. No volunteer should feel feared for what they believe in.
Make a personal note that this particular FD that did this to a member now claims that this member is a horrible person that they fear 14 years after he jointed. Which is now resulting into a lawsuite against this FD. This member will be back. Because he is a firefighter, not a kiss A##. He stand up for the grunts of the FD and is not afraid to speak up. This firefighter is not amused with the so called social club that has taken over this FD. The moral is worst now then before this member was removed and they claim that he is no brother.
So think about this. What kind of brotherhood could this be if you throw a brother out because the officers don't like being keep honest?
Also, I'm not saying that this guy is perfect but he is no less perfect than the rest of them. But, what I will say is that he is an honest man who took responsibility for his actions when others just scapped goated their responsibilities and lied to protect thier sorry A##'s. That includes the officers.
08-11-2005, 10:45 AM #17
There is a differance between being "PC", and being insensitive. Laws about harrassment, discrimination and so on were put into place for specefic reasons, they were needed. No one should have a fear of going to work due to harrassment, sexual or otherwise.
Now, that is not to say that calling an individual "black", rather than "African-American" is insensitive, or racist. Most of the blacks I know, or work with have been to Africa as many times as I. Which is to say, none, much less born there.
It is interesting though, a co-worker of mine, who is white incidentally, was actually born in South Africa. His family, along with him immigrated here, this makes him an "African-American". Does it not? Not according to the "PC" statistic keepers.
My ethnic background is German, yet I am called white, not "German-American", or "Euro-American".
There is nothing wrong with studying your past, or to have pride in your ancestry. The fact is though, we all live in the United States, and as such we need to truly be the melting pot everyone claims us to be. That means you leave a part of your past behind, and bring part of it forward to blend with everyone else's. It doesn't mean you should have to look over your shoulder at every turn, worried that someone is going to be offended by anything.
It is far to common place these days, for an individual to run right to administration with conflict, rather than attempting to resolve a dispute with the individual offending them.
It is also far to common for administration to bring the "hammer" down, rather than to handle an incident on a realistic basis.
This extends into the rest of the world, also. Team nicknames, and mascots. We waste alot of time, money and effort on such petty arguments, especially when that effort could be spent on solving real issue's, not manufactored one's.
The only point I'm trying to make, is that you can be sensitive, without being PC. The two are not the same. We can be an accepting society, without having to sugar coat everything.
08-11-2005, 02:52 PM #18We can be an accepting society, without having to sugar coat everything.Jacktee
"Insert quotation here."
08-11-2005, 03:05 PM #19No I don't think so it's not the proper forum for such a thing and I believe again you've taken what I have said to the extreme.
No I don't think so it's not the proper forum for such a thing and I believe again you've taken what I have said to the extreme. My point is that I don't think every little thing should cause a big deal. There are jokes about EVERY walk of life, not just race...... have you ever told a blonde joke? Same deal. Now at the same time, if a joke is particularly malicious or hurtful, then no it's NOT funny. Like everything else there is a fine line.
Like everything else there is a fine line.
08-11-2005, 03:08 PM #20These activists have essentially muzzled the average Joe with slash and burn attack methods.
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