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    Default Are Unions Becoming Obsolete?


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    In answer to your query...

    no.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    uh oh is it just me, or could this macro be used more often on this forum?
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    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
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    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    In answer to your query...

    no.
    Ditto, ditto.(to make it long enough to post).

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    Obsolete? No.

    Less Effective? Yes

    Additonal Note: After re-reading the post from wherever that site was I wanted to add that the notion that unions drive manufacturing overseas is a bit much. Larger profit margins and labor that is not only cheap, but criminal, allows companies to use the "labor sucks" mantra. In truth it is greed - not only at the top but at the shareholder level.

    Labor is in a bit of a fix now. There is a lot of work for labor leaders to do if they hope to make a connection with the populace again. In this climate it will be a dicy affair.
    Last edited by JackTee09; 08-11-2005 at 08:55 PM.
    Jacktee

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    Default Opinions expected - still waiting for reasons.

    Belly on up to the table and explain yourself. Some good points made here for the question. Anyone with opinions they'd like to offer beyond just yes or no, c'mon over.

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    and Thank You for another shameless plug for your website.

    Are they obsolete? nope. They still serve their purpose. They still fight for their members rights. As long as that fight needs to be fought, they will still serve that purpose.


    I do have a "pet peeve" about some Unions, although it's not IAFF related. In my area, there are two commercial construction jobs just getting started. The jobs went out to bid and companies with non-union labor won the bids. I know people from these companies and they are good people that deserve to work on jobs. Guess what....unions are picketing these jobs and making giant signs about "low quality labor" and "unfair practices". Sorry, but it's B.S. They got the job because they were less expensive than the union labor. Can I come and picket in front of your firehouse because I could do it cheaper? (sarcastic) I, personally, think that's a crappy move and feel that is why there are more and more union guys picketing than working in my area. And to make it better, 2 of the guys that are picketing every other day, spend those off days working side jobs (as non-union laborers).

    So in the end, I may not agree with everything they do, but I feel they still have a purpose.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Judge for yourself. IN ILLINOIS
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    and Thank You for another shameless plug for your website.

    Are they obsolete? nope. They still serve their purpose. They still fight for their members rights. As long as that fight needs to be fought, they will still serve that purpose.


    I do have a "pet peeve" about some Unions, although it's not IAFF related. In my area, there are two commercial construction jobs just getting started. The jobs went out to bid and companies with non-union labor won the bids. I know people from these companies and they are good people that deserve to work on jobs. Guess what....unions are picketing these jobs and making giant signs about "low quality labor" and "unfair practices". Sorry, but it's B.S. They got the job because they were less expensive than the union labor. Can I come and picket in front of your firehouse because I could do it cheaper? (sarcastic) I, personally, think that's a crappy move and feel that is why there are more and more union guys picketing than working in my area. And to make it better, 2 of the guys that are picketing every other day, spend those off days working side jobs (as non-union laborers).

    So in the end, I may not agree with everything they do, but I feel they still have a purpose.


    though i can see how you would think like that with the construction jobs , You must look at it from the point of veiw if your freinds were in the union they would be making better wages ,and honestly if it is a union type job site as long as the company pays the prevailing wages unions would not hound them but i guess they are not. Coming from a family of union construction workers i have heard the speach many of times.considering a union laborer makes in the 20$ and up range and construction is in the 30 $ range then why wouldnt you want to be for the unions considering non union companys are taking advantage of guys and paying lower wages why the company makes more money.Now from a manager type point of veiw unions suck.
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    but BFD, how much of that extra $$$ per hour is actually going into the guys pocket and not to his "union" dues?

    Someone that used to be close to me was in nurses union. Their union decided to strike, there was no vote of membership. The union told them not to worry, they would be Ok. The strike went on long enough that the union benefits pay (whatever it's called) ran out and there was no income coming in. Funny thing, they still had to pay their union dues. In the end, they majority quit the union and are back to work. Yes, I know, there are lots of stories where a union did well and good for their members. So far, the closest experiences I've had with them have not been positive.

    Most likely, I'll never have to make the decision to join/not join a union. At this time, it'd be a tough decision. I like reading about the Unions on here when there is good discussion, not the "bashing" crap. And in that other thread about the FDNY thing, I don't see it as bashing anyone.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Regarding "another shameless plug for another website" - sure!! - fyi that site's working to get civilian visitors on it's pages to help educate them. In our geographical area, unions aren't abundantly common or popular. Some of the reasons this may be the case were posted on USfirefighters.net in the hope those in this forum might share their viewpoints there. You're kind of preaching to the choir here at firehouse.com.

    Personally, I certainly agree unions serve a purpose. But it seems from the discussion here (so far) they could be doing a better job. Thanks for the replies.

    Peace!

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    Bones i agree in what you are saying , sometimes Unions do not help and make things worse. But for instance look at South Carolina I worked for North Charleston and out of around 200 fireman you were lucky to have maybe 50 in the union. reason being the right to work state , now if the majority of the department was union we would then have had bargaining rights due to the majority standing together.But a lot of the guys down there didnt understand that due to not being used to it as us northerners are and didnt join because they didnt think it would help.
    Take for instance where i was a Capt. was making around the 40g mark give or take. Now up here being a union state there is no way in hell we would let that happen.
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