08-12-2005, 10:08 AM #1
- Join Date
- Sep 2002
Plane Crash Rescue Effort Criticized
From the Toronto Star
Pilot, passenger died of trauma, autopsy finds
Slow rescue made no difference, chief says
Barrie marine unit criticized for rescue response
BARRIE—An autopsy report has shown a father and son killed in a dramatic mid-air collision between two float planes on Lake Simcoe Saturday died of trauma caused by the impact.
"So that means they did not die from drowning," Barrie Police Chief Wayne Frechette said in an interview yesterday.
The Barrie police marine unit has come under criticism from the family of George (Bud) Lee, 71, and his son Danny Lee, 47, and some bystanders for not arriving on the scene in time to pull the two men from their downed Cessna, which had plunged nose-first into Kempenfelt Bay.
The marine unit motor launch was not on patrol when the crash happened at 3:30 p.m. Saturday, though it is typically in the water on summer weekends, Frechette said.
The first Barrie police officer on the scene arrived on a civilian boat 18 minutes after the aircraft nose-dived into the lake before scores of horrified onlookers, including George Lee's wife, who saw the crash from the dock of the family's lakefront home.
The marine unit's main boat, which is on permanent loan from the RCMP, wouldn't start when the call came in, so four officers instead rushed to the scene in their inflatable Zodiac, arriving some 22 minutes after the crash. Officers later got the main boat started and drove it to the scene of what had by then become a recovery operation.
"They made the right decision — it was better to have four officers there then to have them all standing around while someone tried to start the boat," Frechette said.
Frechette said he has asked his officers for a report outlining the minute-by-minute police response, which he hopes to have in his hands today.
The pilot of the other float plane has been identified as Peter Dmytriw of Toronto. Joseph Kane and Robert Cudney, both of Barrie, were listed as passengers in the second Cessna.
Lee's four-seat aircraft had just taken off from Kempenfelt Bay when it was struck by Dmytriw's plane, which was executing "touch-and-go" practice takeoffs and landings. The plane was being shown to a potential buyer.
Witnesses said the two planes were about 60 metres in the air when they collided.
The propeller of Dmytriw's plane struck the pontoon and sheared off the tail of Lee's craft, which then spiralled down into the water, flipping onto its roof with just its pontoons above water.
Dmytriw's plane landed, then taxied to the government dock in Barrie and police were called.
The pilot was treated at hospital for an injured knee and released.
Several dozen boats and Jet Skis converged on the scene, but their rescue efforts were thwarted by aviation fuel that leaked into the surrounding water.
Police launches from York Region police and Ontario Provincial Police also arrived on the scene to help, officials said.
York Region police have four boats in their marine unit, including a new 10-metre launch. Four officers work full-time with the unit, which patrols southern Lake Simcoe.
The OPP is responsible for the entire lake, but patrols only its north end. The York police marine unit patrols the east side of Lake Simcoe. The Barrie unit is responsible for safety on Kempenfelt Bay, which falls within Barrie's borders.
"When you have a problem on the water, boats from all of these jurisdictions will show up. We assist each other," said Frechette.
The Barrie police marine unit was also criticized for failing to deploy divers in the rescue and recovery effort.
The crash is under investigation by the Transportation Safety Board, which could take up to six months to issue its report.
08-12-2005, 11:47 AM #2
The problem is... everyone thinks that there should be rescue boats on the waters 24/7, but they don't want to pay for them.
This accident was pure pilot error, unfortunately, there are no runways on the water.
Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 08-12-2005 at 11:44 PM. Reason: edited to correct errors"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY
08-12-2005, 11:49 AM #3
pss hey Gonzo its 365/7 lol , but i agree with what you said !******=================
------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------
08-12-2005, 11:50 AM #4Originally Posted by CaptainGonzoI dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
08-12-2005, 11:53 AM #5Now thats one hell of a shift!!!!******=================
------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------
08-12-2005, 01:01 PM #6
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- Memphis Tn,USA-now
You think your paycheck's wet from your boss crying over it as he signs the bottom line now?
Originally Posted by BFDNJFF
08-12-2005, 02:07 PM #7
Civilians criticize police and rescue services all the time. They have an idea in their head of what they think we have, what we can do, and how fast it should be done. If that doesn't jive with reality, they feel we've intentionally neglected them.
Engines break down. Not everyone has divers. He crashed his place, he died of his injuries. Move on with life.Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.
08-12-2005, 02:21 PM #8Several dozen boats and Jet Skis converged on the scene, but their rescue efforts were thwarted by aviation fuel that leaked into the surrounding water."This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?
08-12-2005, 06:52 PM #9
I will defer to the pilots among us for analysis but as to people being critical - that is 365/24/7 or 366/24/7Jacktee
"Insert quotation here."
08-12-2005, 06:53 PM #10
It is typically refered to as 24/7/365 in these parts.Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.
08-12-2005, 09:27 PM #11
Originally Posted by nmfire
- Join Date
- May 2002
- Now in Victoria, BC. I'm from beautiful Jasper Alberta in the heart of the Can. Rockies - will always be an Albertan at heart!
sheesh give Ron a break already and discuss something more important than his typo (for eg. as I typed "typo" first it was typ9o backspaced to fix it and had another typo, and I'm a pro!!! Just so happens that 99.99% of the time I catch my typos either as I'm typing it because it doesn't "feel" right, or I see my mistakes, because I watch the screen as I type). It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that the 4 & 5 keys are right next to each other and that he didn't mean to type "245/7"
Oh, and this comment isn't strictly aimed at you, nm LOL .... it just happened that yours was the last post and was very quotableSeptember 11th - Never Forget
I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.
IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
RAY WAS HERE FIRST
08-12-2005, 10:35 PM #12
This type of criticism drvies me nuts. This is Barrie, a town of 150,000 north of Toronto. While Lake Simcoe is a busy place on the weekends, so are hundreds of other major waterways and lakes in Ontario. You can't have a boat on every one, or you would have no staff left for the roadways.
And as for the "expectations" of the family and bystanders. How many pilots "expect" a 5 minute response time when you crash well away from a recognized airstrip? This could have easily happened over the forest of the muskokas, and you would have been looking at a response measured in hours, not minutes.
You fly, you take the risk. Pilots must accept this, and so must the rest of the public.Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!
08-13-2005, 08:59 AM #13
Mine was just playful. Easy....Jacktee
"Insert quotation here."
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