# Thread: Video,all hands fire PA

1. Originally Posted by Slaytallica45
nope, this is corey

2. What I wouldn't give for videos of the fires I went on before I retired. It is great to see these things and bravo to you young guys who do this. An excellent tool for learning and for sharing.

3. Notice on the Eng 11-10 Dash Video....
I talked to one of the firefighters who was on the 1st engine in.........look how Engine 11-10 caught up to the Engine in front of them, watch it from the very beginning till they catch up, the driver of 110 was flooring it so says the FF who rode on the apparatus that was in front of 11-10

4. You have to love it when predictability and chaotic systems are argued here on these forums. Wow. Hats off to Trojan and George.

Have you guys been reading studies from the Santa Fe Institute again?

5. Originally Posted by TrojanHorse
Very nice, throw down the gauntlet. Make a challenge. I looked at the papers. Since it has been a few years (around 20) since I took Calculus and Differntial equations I have forgotten most of what I learned in those classes. However, I do know enough about the math involved to know that assumptions are made about the solutions of the equations. Most of the time they theorize that a portion of the equation will be insignificant in compared to another part and hence, simply ignor it. This then makes the equation solvable.

I fo one have never bought into the part about things being "insignificant". I beleive this is the source of errors when calaculating actual results and comparing them to real world results.

Again, these papers talk about all conditions being equal. In the real world, conditions are never identical, that only happens in the lab.
Of course it only happens in a lab. That is the point.

These equations that you misunderstand and mock are developed after much research, many live burns and reconciliation with past case studies and research. Ther is not one single, solitary word in either these papers, or any other document at BFRL that says "This will happen every time you go to a structure fire". If there is, show it to me and I will admit that I am wrong.

What this research does, and these equations illustrate, is the THEORY of the combustion process. That theory is easily calculated, with the proper research and controls. As this theory is increasingly understood, the manner in which this THEORY is taught and applied to dynamic, non-duplicative, real world situations is improved. That makes for more intelligent and tactically-smart fire officers and fire fighters. That is a good thing and is something that I am happy to see my tax dollars go to.

Your argument is ignorant of the value of scientific research to the fire service today. Do you realize that with computer fire models, we are able to replicate to an amazing degree of accuracy, what happens in a compartment fire? The limitations of the model are obvious. But to gather insight into why a particular fire burned a particular way, their value is beyond dispute-at least among the intelligent fire service professionals.

Have you ever attended a lecture, workshop or class in which this type of research was demonstrated, and the applications of the conclusions were applied to real world settings? I have and the knowledge that I have gained in these classes has been invaluable in allowing me to understand the basics of fire better each time I go. It has made me a better fire investigator. But, don't you worry. You just go on slaying the dragon, fighting the beast, killling the animal or whatever other stupid saying there is for it.

6. Awesome footage just a question why did the 1 engine turn left way before the other engine turned left ??

Different assignments or trying to beat one another ??

About the engien catching up to the other one , our engine 92 has a few gears taken out of it because it likes to drop drive shafts so it tops out at 60 , while out brand new pierce engine hauls killer butt . I havnt driven in dis. 3's brand new la france tanker yet so i wanna see what its got behind the wheel.

7. The engine that was ahead was assigned to go to the fire and start getting water on it, engine 11-10 was assigned to pickup a hydrant and run the water I guess

8. I love a Q and everything, but you do have to let the thing wind down. It's the variation in the pitch that catches people's attention. That's why we have wail, yelp & all those other variable tones on electronic sirens.

But to the fire...

9. Originally Posted by EngCo29
Notice on the Eng 11-10 Dash Video....
I talked to one of the firefighters who was on the 1st engine in.........look how Engine 11-10 caught up to the Engine in front of them, watch it from the very beginning till they catch up, the driver of 110 was flooring it so says the FF who rode on the apparatus that was in front of 11-10
Sounds to me like the driver is an @\$\$.

10. Well, an all hands fire,no water on the scene, we'd be rushing also

11. No 29, there is no (or very little) reason to "floor it" and speed recklessly. Remember the 16 Life Safety initiatives? It's about us going home. Not getting your jollies off blowing a siren.

12. Hey EngCo29,

Why are you coming on to firehouse.com forums and posting trash about Hope Fire Company when we both know that what you are posting is total BULL****!

Explain yourself....

13. hey, was the engine infront of 11-10 sure of where they were goin and what street to hit? Maybe they were slowin down to find the street and 11-10 caught up to them. From the look at the video, it did not look like 11-10 was goin too drastically fast. And it did not look like they were "tailgating" the engine, looked like they had ample enough distance to me.

29, we're talking about a fire company that is not in our state. I think we don't exactly have the right to bash them on how they operate or how they respond to a fire...we were not there. Maybe we should worry about things that happen closer to home, like in your county and my county.

14. ## explain yourself ................

Originally Posted by hopefirecompany
Hey EngCo29,

Why are you coming on to firehouse.com forums and posting trash about Hope Fire Company when we both know that what you are posting is total BULL****!

Explain yourself....
Is it me or did anyone else see what this Hope Fire Co is all wound up about ?

15. Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
People a WHOLE lot smarter than you or me are constantly conducting research to refine our knowledge of the phenomenon of fire.
A rare glimmer of humility from George....

16. Well I agree with all of you, I shouldn't have bashed'em about it since they are in another state,i apologize for it everyone...i guess I was in a "gung-ho omg i just saw an awesome response video" type of moment sorry about it Hope.

17. ok, I see some posts in this thread have been edited since my last visit.

Joking about blowing up the Q was not the problem, we are joking about it ourselves at our station. The issue is false information was being posted about the videos, and users were basing opinions on that false information. The line was crossed when the crew was called a bunch of ***'s.

The accusations that 11-10 had if "floored" are false, when I listen to the video I hear the jake brake most of the time, hardly "flooring it". I suggest turning up your bass or buy new speakers.

The accusations of tailgating, again, obviously not true.

To EngCo29, apology accepted, as far as we are concerned this issue is closed.

Engine 11-10 was responding from a parade in a neighboring town, the OIC was in the process of gearing up, donning the pack, operating the radios, operating the sirens, all at the same time. The crew was gearing up and donning also.

Incident was paged as a building fire with possible entrapment, Chief arrived on scene with heavy fire showing and upgraded to second alarm.

Screaming could be heard coming from the second floor, Chief ordered the first in truck company for search and rescue operations. Chief request a third alarm.

In the video, the engine in front was turning towards the incident and hitting the plug on Side D, Engine 11-10's assignment was to hit a hydrant on Side C. This was best accomplished by traveling an additional 2 blocks before making the turn.

The operator of 11-10 was in complete control, knew exactly were he was going, and was not driving recklessly.

Listen to the radio traffic, you can here the truck company on the interior with search and rescue, at this point, no water supplies have been established, heavy fire was showing, and three tennants were unaccounted for.

In the end, a total of six alarms were transmitted. One tennant suffered burns and was transported, all other occupants were eventually accounted for. Thank god there were no fatalities.

-- Be safe everyone

18. Thanks for the extra info Hopefireco.

Don't sweat the armchair QB'ing, it happens all the time. Next someone is bound to comment on gearing up while responding, but we'll wait to cross that bridge.

Most of us are just genuinely intersted in how the incident played out. When you don't get the runs, you have to learn by studying others. Sounds like a good run with a good outcome.

19. Originally Posted by hopefirecompany
ok, I see some posts in this thread have been edited since my last visit.

Joking about blowing up the Q was not the problem, we are joking about it ourselves at our station. The issue is false information was being posted about the videos, and users were basing opinions on that false information. The line was crossed when the crew was called a bunch of ***'s.

The accusations that 11-10 had if "floored" are false, when I listen to the video I hear the jake brake most of the time, hardly "flooring it". I suggest turning up your bass or buy new speakers.

The accusations of tailgating, again, obviously not true.

To EngCo29, apology accepted, as far as we are concerned this issue is closed.

Engine 11-10 was responding from a parade in a neighboring town, the OIC was in the process of gearing up, donning the pack, operating the radios, operating the sirens, all at the same time. The crew was gearing up and donning also.

Incident was paged as a building fire with possible entrapment, Chief arrived on scene with heavy fire showing and upgraded to second alarm.

Screaming could be heard coming from the second floor, Chief ordered the first in truck company for search and rescue operations. Chief request a third alarm.

In the video, the engine in front was turning towards the incident and hitting the plug on Side D, Engine 11-10's assignment was to hit a hydrant on Side C. This was best accomplished by traveling an additional 2 blocks before making the turn.

The operator of 11-10 was in complete control, knew exactly were he was going, and was not driving recklessly.

Listen to the radio traffic, you can here the truck company on the interior with search and rescue, at this point, no water supplies have been established, heavy fire was showing, and three tennants were unaccounted for.

In the end, a total of six alarms were transmitted. One tennant suffered burns and was transported, all other occupants were eventually accounted for. Thank god there were no fatalities.

-- Be safe everyone
Hey Hope,got a quick quesiton for you, how did the fund drive go for the rescue?

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