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  1. #181
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    Cool Great Now this 3 ring circus could be comming to your towm

    CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- A fallen soldier's mother said Thursday that the anti-war vigil she started nearly three weeks ago near President Bush's ranch won't end when she and other protesters pack up their camp next week.

    Cindy Sheehan said the day after she leaves Aug. 31, she will embark on a bus tour ending up in Washington, D.C., on Sept. 24. Then the group will start a 24-hour vigil in the nation's capital.

    "I am not alone," she said at a news conference Thursday. "There's the people standing behind me here, but there's thousands of military families ... who want the same answers to the same questions."

    Sheehan began her vigil Aug. 6 on the road leading to Bush's ranch, vowing to stay through his monthlong vacation unless he met with her. She left last week to visit her 74-year-old mother in Los Angeles after the woman suffered a stroke. Sheehan said her mother has started physical therapy for paralysis on her right side.


    Sheehan returned on Wednesday to "Camp Casey," named after her 24-year-old son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, who was killed last year in Iraq.

    On Thursday, Sheehan placed her son's combat boots by a cross bearing his name at the protest site. The boots had been part of the "Eyes Wide Open" exhibit, created by the American Friends Service Committee, a branch of the pacifist Quaker church. The traveling exhibit of rows of black military boots is a reminder of the U.S. troops lost in Iraq.

    Sheehan said she realizes that Bush has no intentions of meeting with the protesters, but that her vigil has accomplished other things.

    "I absolutely think it's worthwhile because we've galvanized the peace movement," she said. "We've started people talking about the war again."


    Sheehan's protest in Crawford has encouraged anti-war activists to join her and prompted peace vigils nationwide. She also continues to draw harsh criticism.

    More Bush supporters arrived and pitched tents at the newly dubbed "Camp Reality," located in a ditch across the street from the war protesters' site along the main road leading to the president's ranch.

    "People have said, `Enough is enough - enough Bush bashing,'" said Gregg Garvey of Keystone Heights, Fla., whose 23-year-old son Justin died in Iraq in 2003. "This (protest) does not represent all of America."

    Conservative activists and military families also were en route to Crawford from California on a tour called "You don't speak for me, Cindy!" The caravan coordinated by Move America Forward plans to hold a pro-Bush rally in town Saturday.

    Bush has said he recognizes Sheehan's right to protest and understands her anguish, although she does not represent the views of many families he has met with.

    Sheehan and other grieving families met with Bush about two months after her son died last year, before reports of faulty prewar intelligence surfaced and caused her to become a vocal opponent of the war.










    I heard an interview she did with PBS the other day, do you know how many gold star mothers are down there with her? 6. Know how many other moms with kids in Iraq are with her? another 6. Now my math sucks, but 6+6=12. Wow with numbers like that she totally represents what servicemembers families ideals and thoughts are
    Last edited by CaptainS; 08-26-2005 at 10:29 AM.


  2. #182
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    We entered Iraq to get Terrorists? I must have been watching another channel when that was broadcast. I would have sworn it was to knock over Saddam and search for WMD.

    No, we should not do all of those things you said. We are on a mission from God, right? I don't think he would like his authority underminded.

    Lets see..

    Day one: Go in and search for WMD, and oh yeah, get Saddam.

    Frago: Oh, uh, now we are going to set up a Democratic government there.

    Frago: Uh, well, now we have a terrorist problem there, we're staying a little longer.

    If its a terrorst issue, why have we not invaded Saudi, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Yemen, Horn of Africa. Come on, are u guys that dense? You realy believe all of that crap, really?

    Sarcasm aside, you really believe all of the whys? Most of the hijackers were Saudis, not Iraqis. Come on.

  3. #183
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    Did you hear what she said to Chris Matthew's on Hardball?
    Atleast most of you who I disagree with in this thread can see that Afghanistan was absolutely Justified. But she doesn't!

    Matthews said, "Can I ask you a tough question -- a very tough question? If your son had been killed in Afghanistan, would you have a different feeling," huh? Huh?

    SHEEHAN: I don't think so, Chris, because I believe that Afghanistan is almost the same thing, where we're fighting terrorism -- or terrorists, we're saying -- but they're not contained in a country. You know, this is an ideology and not an in an enemy, and we know that Iraq, Iraq had no terrorism. They were no threat to the United States of America .

    Next question, Matthews says, "But Afghanistan was harboring the Taliban and Al-Qaeda which is the group that attacked us on 9/11."

    SHEEHAN: Then we should have gone after Al-Qaeda, and maybe not after the country of Afghanistan.

    This women is not a greiving mother anymore, She is a peacenik activist and and is doing her sons sacrifice and memory a great disservice!
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  4. #184
    MembersZone Subscriber RoughRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    Why do people insist on playing the "Clinton card" when the subject is Bush? Clinton lied about an afair. All he did was get caugth doing the exact thing other presidents have (Kennedy comes to mind). It caused distrust, and brought shame to the office of president. Nothing more.

    Bush lied (er, had bad information) and its cost almost 2000 US lives (so far).

    Sounds like apples and oranges to me.
    Wasn't he disbarred, and impeached by the Senete by two thirds majority vote? Yes, he lied about an affair. But he lied under oath to a Grand Jury.

    Take a look.

    http://www.eagleton.rutgers.edu/e-go...tonimpeach.htm
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  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnout733
    We entered Iraq to get Terrorists? I must have been watching another channel when that was broadcast. I would have sworn it was to knock over Saddam and search for WMD.

    No, we should not do all of those things you said. We are on a mission from God, right? I don't think he would like his authority underminded.

    Lets see..

    Day one: Go in and search for WMD, and oh yeah, get Saddam.

    Frago: Oh, uh, now we are going to set up a Democratic government there.

    Frago: Uh, well, now we have a terrorist problem there, we're staying a little longer.

    If its a terrorst issue, why have we not invaded Saudi, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Yemen, Horn of Africa. Come on, are u guys that dense? You realy believe all of that crap, really?

    Sarcasm aside, you really believe all of the whys? Most of the hijackers were Saudis, not Iraqis. Come on.
    I know that I could present the mountain of evidence that exists that shows that the Iraqi regime was filtering millions of dollars to the terrorist organizations, but you wouldn't believe it. So why bother.
    You were obviously to dense to hear all the reasons for going in when President laid them out the first time. I have restated them here for you and yet you still refuse to listen.
    You pretend to have such a high horse about this subject. You bash thosed that believe that this is a war about good and evil and that believe that it is a rightoeus war. Since you obviously can't seem to quit using that in your half hearted replies. I have explained to you time and time again it was the fact that it was always about more than WMD and that SH had to go.
    Sarcasm aside, you really believe all of the whys? Most of the hijackers were Saudis, not Iraqis. Come on.
    The why did we go to Afghanistan, OBL is a Saudi.
    Come on, thats about the lamest reply I have heard yet. Why did we go after Germany in WW2. Hitler was born in Austria!!

    If its a terrorst issue, why have we not invaded Saudi, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Yemen, Horn of Africa. Come on, are u guys that dense? You realy believe all of that crap, really?
    Well we didn't have to go into Libya to get him to turn over all his WMD stuff did we? And who says that once Iraq is atable that there won't be more to follow. No one is sayiing that once Iraq is free that it will be done. This will be an ongoing fight.
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  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRider
    Wasn't he disbarred, and impeached by the Senete by two thirds majority vote? Yes, he lied about an affair. But he lied under oath to a Grand Jury.

    Take a look.

    http://www.eagleton.rutgers.edu/e-go...tonimpeach.htm
    for those that are going to start ranting about this guys mistake and not knowing the Constitution, I am sure he means that he was impeached by the House and disbarred from ABA.
    To those whom much has been given, much shall be required.
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  7. #187
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    Bush, Bush, Bush...
    You know; it literally took an act of Congress to get us into Iraq.
    Bush didn't do it alone.
    The people that WE elected to represent OUR interests voted to send troops.
    You can talk about the character of Clinton and Bush all you want, but the fact of the matter is that we are there because of the collective efforts of the public, their representatives, their military and their President and Commander-in-Chief.
    "I didn't vote for him" doesn't matter.
    "I don't like him" doesn't matter.
    What DOES matter is that our sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, husbands, wives, nephews, nieces, uncles, aunts, cousins and friends that are still serving ANYWHERE in this hostile world clearly understands that we love and support them.
    Do that however you see fit. If that is saying that you agree/disagree that we should be in Iraq, fine.
    If you believe that an anti-Bush message shows that support, then fine.
    If you think that visiting with the soldiers that are already home, way to go.
    If you think that going to Crawford, TX shows our soldiers that you support them, that is your right.
    With all of that said, if I were a soldier, I think that I would feel that I'm getting mixed signals.
    Personally, I am going to ask my nephew who is GOING TO IRAQ what I can do for him to show my support.
    At this point, I believe that he is in the best position to know and then I will do everything I can until he tells me otherwise.
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  8. #188
    MembersZone Subscriber RoughRider's Avatar
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    Thats correct, my apologies. Fat finger syndrome.
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

    The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter!! Either side of the hill.


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  9. #189
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    This will be a long fight. I do not prescribe to "group think", I think for myself. I don't own a horse, high or low.

    Bash? I'm bashing but you are not? Hmmm...

    We look out the same window and see two different things. We listen to the same speech, you hear truth, I hear BS.

    Once again, time will tell all.
    Last edited by turnout733; 08-26-2005 at 10:38 AM. Reason: spelling correction

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefReason
    Personally, I am going to ask my nephew who is GOING TO IRAQ what I can do for him to show my support.
    I asked my buddy, who's in Iraq right now cleaning up the chemical weapons that the media says don't exist, that very question. And he said to throw **** out the window of my car when I see protesters.

    What's funny is that before he went he didn't say that, he was all on the "they have a right to protest, I don't agree with them, but they have a right...bla bla bla" trip. Then when he came back on R&R after 6 months he was downright hostile toward the most vocal anti-Iraq crowd. He's back in Iraq now, and he loves his job.
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  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRider
    Wasn't he disbarred, and impeached by the Senete by two thirds majority vote? Yes, he lied about an affair. But he lied under oath to a Grand Jury.

    Take a look.

    http://www.eagleton.rutgers.edu/e-go...tonimpeach.htm

    Again, this has what to do with Bush & Iraq? I know all you "W" huggers want to bring Slick Willie up everytime someone gose after your boy, but please, stay on subject.

    Chief, as always, you make great points. Bush didnt do it alone. But do you really think the Republican controlled congress, along with a large portion of our citizens, still reeling from 9/11, wouldnt support his decision (which I think he took advantage of)? And when did the armed forces ever go againts the wishes of a sitting president?

    I just have a hard time buying the story behind the Iraq invasion. If this is about the war on terror, then why are we still in bed with the Saudis? Osama is a Saudi, most of the attackers on 9/11 were Saudis, many of the insergents attacking our troops in Iraq are Saudis so why are we still kissing the Saudis a**es? If your talking an effect on terror, maybe we invaded the wrong country.
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    This is my own warpped vision.

    I have heard that our war is for imperialistic gain and oil. Well you know what maybe we should become an imperialist nation.

    Lets tripple the size of our armed forces and march right through the middle east. Take all the oil, gain control of the Suez set up a toll booth, we can set up a summer recreation resort in UAE for all of the oil refinery workers ( now that we have control over the oil wells we can create more jobs). We can also start a new national past time of tackle camel racing with a track in each of our new territories. Unlike Puerto Rico these guys will want to become states right away, so we can have at least 60 states.

    I would bet the people would register as conservitaves or extreme far right. The democrats would be in serious trouble then.

    And think of all that sand, we can make vynil replacement windows real cheap (again more jobs, wich equals more money that we can fund our pork barrel projects with).

    And think we would half of the world by the balls.

    For the enviromental wackos out there, this means no more drilling in Alaska. Arent you happy know?

    Seriously how many countries or territories have laid claim to during our imperialist time? The Phillipeans, Cuba, Panama, and a bunch of worthless Islands (for the most part) in the pacific. Dont go there about the continental US and stealing the land from the spanish, french and indians that was "destiny"


  13. #193
    MembersZone Subscriber RoughRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    Why do people insist on playing the "Clinton card" when the subject is Bush? Clinton lied about an afair. All he did was get caugth doing the exact thing other presidents have (Kennedy comes to mind). It caused distrust, and brought shame to the office of president. Nothing more.

    Bush lied (er, had bad information) and its cost almost 2000 US lives (so far).

    Sounds like apples and oranges to me.
    Dave,

    I don't agree with all of Bush's policies. I certainly respect your position regarding The War on Terrorism. I donít agree but respect it. I was specifically addressing your statements about Clintonís actions. The man lied under oath to a Grand Jury. A sitting President lied under oath. The man swore an oath to defend the Constitution. The ABA felt that his crime was egregious enough to disbar him for his crime.

    I'm sorry my post was not clear on that point. I over served myself with a bottle of Pinot Grigio last night and thought I could think and write clearly this morning. Obviously, I was wrong.

    BTW~ I could care less that he was getting BJ under his desk. I only wish he Kennedy's taste.
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainS
    This is my own warpped vision.

    I have heard that our war is for imperialistic gain and oil. Well you know what maybe we should become an imperialist nation.

    Lets tripple the size of our armed forces and march right through the middle east. Take all the oil, gain control of the Suez set up a toll booth, we can set up a summer recreation resort in UAE for all of the oil refinery workers ( now that we have control over the oil wells we can create more jobs). We can also start a new national past time of tackle camel racing with a track in each of our new territories. Unlike Puerto Rico these guys will want to become states right away, so we can have at least 60 states.

    I would bet the people would register as conservitaves or extreme far right. The democrats would be in serious trouble then.

    And think of all that sand, we can make vynil replacement windows real cheap (again more jobs, wich equals more money that we can fund our pork barrel projects with).

    And think we would half of the world by the balls.

    For the enviromental wackos out there, this means no more drilling in Alaska. Arent you happy know?

    Seriously how many countries or territories have laid claim to during our imperialist time? The Phillipeans, Cuba, Panama, and a bunch of worthless Islands (for the most part) in the pacific. Dont go there about the continental US and stealing the land from the spanish, french and indians that was "destiny"

    In my international policy class in college I wrote an entire report on why the U.S. should increase the size of it's military and use it to seize control of Venesuela, Saudi Arabia, and any other country who won't kneel before us and provide us with what we want when we want it.

    I got an A on that paper, and the teacher was an extreme leftist anti-war freak.
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  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRider
    Dave,

    I don't agree with all of Bush's policies. I certainly respect your position regarding The War on Terrorism. I donít agree but respect it. I was specifically addressing your statements about Clintonís actions. The man lied under oath to a Grand Jury. A sitting President lied under oath. The man swore an oath to defend the Constitution. The ABA felt that his crime was egregious enough to disbar him for his crime.

    I'm sorry my post was not clear on that point. I over served myself with a bottle of Pinot Grigio last night and thought I could think and write clearly this morning. Obviously, I was wrong.

    BTW~ I could care less that he was getting BJ under his desk. I only wish he Kennedy's taste.
    I got your point, I just dont see what it has to do with the subject matter of Bush and the war in Iraq. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Like I said, I really dont care what Clinton did as I dont support him anymore then I support Bush.

    But its all good.

    And your right, Monica was butt ugly. If thats the best a president can do what chance do we low lifes have?
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  16. #196
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    And your right, Monica was butt ugly. If thats the best a president can do what chance do we low lifes have?
    ****, you think Monica was ugly, you should see the women who accused him of sexual harassment and having had sex with while he was gov. of Arkansas. Scary stuff man.
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    Smile hey guys its all good!

    I just want to say that although I strongly disagree with some in this thread, I highly respect your opinion, I just want it to be clear that I have not and never will intentionally bashed anyone in this forum. (I will bash Liberal politicians from time to time, but they chose to run for office..therefore they are free game) These debates are invigorating and stimulating. And just for those that "think I am a mindless Bush Fan," The discussion on this topic has caused me to rethink the war, but after much deliberation my stance has become stronger, And I hope that if nothing else thatI have caused you to at least reevaluate yours. Not that I necessarily want you to change your mind. I would much rather debate a staunch liberal than a wishy washy moderate who flip flops at the drop of a hat. Much more exciting.
    I can basically sum up what I think we all agree on, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong but I think that we all agree that we are in this now, for what ever reason, and we have to see Iraq through to the end. The end being defined as a free government established in Iraq and an official request for us to leave. And from what I hear, that will come fairly soon after the constitution is in place and the military and police have been trained. Whenever that may be.
    I have enjoyed this debate becuase it has been kept civil. I wish all discussions on this forum would stay that way but alas, they don't
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefReason
    Well, I haven't caught up with all of the details, but now there are other mothers who have lost sons in Iraq that have started a
    YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME, CINDY SHEEHAN!
    counter protest group.
    Ah; the sweet smell of the 60s.
    And W said that he believes in Cindy's right to protest. He just disagrees with what she is saying.
    Personally; I think that they ought to clear the road into Crawford...for National Security!
    CR

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRider
    Wasn't he disbarred, and impeached by the Senete by two thirds majority vote? Yes, he lied about an affair. But he lied under oath to a Grand Jury.
    He was impeached by the House. Then found 'not guilty' during his trial in the Senate. Impeach literally means to 'bring charges'. Similar to being indicted. Then the charged individual goes to court with the understanding that the onus of proof is upon the prosecution. You might remember in our country that a defendant is innocent until proven guilty. After both sides have made their case to the judge and/or jury a verdict is rendered. In this case, the verdict was 'not guilty' because a 2/3's vote required for conviction was not present. In fact, if I remember correctly, a majority voted for acquittal. Which means the accused is free to go.

    People are indicted all the time and acquitted. As was Clinton.

    Now what does all that have to do with Bush and war in Iraq? CR hit the nail on the head. We are in Iraq because the people we elected have determined it necessary we be there. I may not like it. I can voice my opinion to my local representative (which I've done). But at the end of the day we are there because we as a society have determined it the correct thing to do.

    And as I have pointed out on several occasions, like Tom Delay, I can support the troops and not support the policies of the person(s) who sent them there. And I do both.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Well, they packed up their crosses and took their show on the road.
    Hey; I got a great idea. Since they're going to travel, why not go to New Orleans and do something constructive. They need the help.
    We don't.
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