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  1. #61
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Default We Done Yet??.......................

    1. I have no clue who this woman is, and I wish no ill will toward her. Whatever the problem is, the horse is dead, it's time to move on.

    2. Major problem with the middle East, WE have no B***S for what is really needed, which is to level the entire area into one big sand flat without a single living thing on it, then start fresh.

    3. We also ....... Tones, I'll be back. Damn AFA's. Now, where was I? Oh, OK..

    3. There is a critical and immediate need to dismantle the State Department. These idiot cookie pushers seem to enjoy apoligizing for stupid stuff. I don't care if I offend someone, or that I offend someone's entire nation. Get over it, or get lost.

    4. Change the title and duties of the Secretary of Defense to the Secretary of Offense. Let the Term "Pre-Emptive Strike" Define our direction for many years to come.
    Last edited by hwoods; 08-20-2005 at 05:11 PM.
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  2. #62
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods
    2. Major problem with the middle East, WE have no B***S for what is really needed, which is to level the entire area into one big sand flat without a single living thing on it, then start fresh.
    Other than mass murder, what would that get us?

    And you don't really believe that would solve any problems, do you?
    Last edited by scfire86; 08-20-2005 at 03:55 PM.
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  3. #63
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default my three cents worth....

    Cindy Sheehan certainly has the right to protest.
    Cindy Sheehan still hasn't finished her grieving process.
    Cindy Sheehan is being used by both sides.
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  4. #64
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    Angry This dead horse has it coming...

    Gonzo...That minimalist response is right on the money.

    I just think that woman has more of a right to speak out that even Bush does. He has sacrificed nothing. He could not even complete his National Gaurd obligation.

    Of course he won't talk to her. There is nothing it would accomplish anyway, he already did talk to her. But she has the right more than any of us to say what she wants. Her son is in the ground because of this war.

    Spectre....I'm just happy you are joining the Air Force and ur staying away from my ex-service. Good luck to you.

    Excited to go to iraq huh?...Yeah...Right...

  5. #65
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Harve,I was thinking more along the lines of GLASS but you'd have to make an arrangement.Pull out the troops,let the insurgents think they won and rush back in,then neutralise the situation.I also believe if one digs up enough desert all the "stuff" that was "never"there will be discovered. Suddam had oodles of time to bury his secrets,they were there during GB1 and Clinton;they didn't just evaporate. And to those who can't equate the current war to Vietnam,Korea,WW2,WW1. In at least Vietnam and Korea many decisions were based on bad information:IE Iraq.So called military intelligence was, at best, less than optimum.And pencil pushers, as Harve so well points out,tied the hands of the troops in the field. Operation Rolling Thunder comes to mind.It's difficult to defeat an enemy that has put the equivalent of cities undergroung all over the north side and tied them together with tunnels.The Middle East hasn't been "stable" since Cain and Able,for some reason we think we've got an instant cure for it now? Uh huh,NOT! Are we in greater danger now than ever before? I believe we are,for forces now even within,are trying to tear the country apart.And I'm not talking about "towelheads",I'm talking about Berkley liberals,mamas kids who have no concept what a product or food is or where it comes from.We invest billions of dollars in foreign aid to countries that would like to kill us;.........WHY? Those billions would cure quite a few problems right here. And I was watching a documentary the other night in which some french kids(a a few germans)were expressing their disgust of the US.If it hadn't been for the allies the French would be speaking German at best or not be a culture(or even on earth)on the less than best. Those who don't study history are doomed to make the same errors.Much truth in the statement,whether or not you happen to "buy in" to it. T.C.

  6. #66
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    Thumbs up My last "kick" for this horse.

    Maybe i did "go off" a little much in this thread. It just ****es me when we talk about the validity of this war and then turn around and belittle Americans practicing the freedoms the war is "supposed" to defend.

    Sure, lets all be quiet and support our president. No one complain about the war...lets not complain or wonder why we are there...lets stop counting bodies and comparing Iraq to Vietnam.....The soldiers volunteered and knew what they were getting into.....Lets stay in Iraq until the job is done, whatever job that may be....Be sure and visit the disabled vets at your nearest VA hospital cause hey, we support our troops. Its all in the name of peace, right?

  7. #67
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    In the beginning, the issue was that Cindy Sheehan wanted ANOTHER meeting with President Bush to talk about the loss of her son and the Iraqi war.
    In the beginning, it wasn't about Cindy Sheehan, her politics or others who supported her or didn't support her.
    In the beginning, it was Cindy Sheehan on the road to the Texas White House, asking for a few minutes of the President's time.
    But now?
    It has turned into another Teri Schaivo-esque circus, media over-kill on a story that is no longer about a grieving mother, but about a CAUSE!
    Turn the channel and you'll see Beth Holloway Twitty.
    Take your pick.
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  8. #68
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Now that conservative pundits are attacking her personally you know she's on the right track.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  9. #69
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    What does she expect to gain from another meeting with Bush? Does she expect her charm, whit and perswasive tone to magically make Bush declare that he was wrong and order an immediatte pullout? What makes her think thst she is entitled to a meeting at all .... he son died doing his job ... a job he volunteered for knowing that soldiers die in combat. I guess the fact that somehow she feels she is entitled to a conversation with the most powerful leader in the world irks me ... Bush owes her nothing and I wish she would realize that.

    Yes she has the right to protest. That is what the boys are dying for. But no, she does not have a right to meet with Bush.

  10. #70
    Forum Member Spectre08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator
    What does she expect to gain from another meeting with Bush? Does she expect her charm, whit and perswasive tone to magically make Bush declare that he was wrong and order an immediatte pullout? What makes her think thst she is entitled to a meeting at all .... he son died doing his job ... a job he volunteered for knowing that soldiers die in combat. I guess the fact that somehow she feels she is entitled to a conversation with the most powerful leader in the world irks me ... Bush owes her nothing and I wish she would realize that.

    Yes she has the right to protest. That is what the boys are dying for. But no, she does not have a right to meet with Bush.
    she's not just asking for A meeting with Bush. She's asking for ANOTHER meeting with Bush. And she's already said that she's going to yell at him and blame him for every problem in the entire world.

    She probably thinks her divorce and her mother's stroke are his fault too.
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  11. #71
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Well, this morning, they showed a news clip of her telling high school students that this country isn't worth dying for.
    If I was a veteran of the military...hell, I'm not and that even incenses me!
    She needs to go home, grieve for her loss-obviously, she is going through that anger part-join an organization that supports the troops still in harm's way and quit acting like she's the only one who has ever lost a son to a war.
    In my opinion, her behavior is hurting the ones still there.
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  12. #72
    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    There was even a protest here in Victoria the other night
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  13. #73
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    5. Who in the hell does she think she is? George W. Bush is not an insurance salesman. He is the leader of the most powerful nation on earth and that nation is at war. Do you suppose that he might have something better to do than meet with er for a second time?
    Like clear brush on his faux ranch?
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  14. #74
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    [QUOTE=hwoods]1. I have no clue who this woman is, and I wish no ill will toward her. Whatever the problem is, the horse is dead, it's time to move on.
    ------
    It's not a horse who's dead, it's her son, and if that were my child, I'd be right where she is. More power to her!

  15. #75
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    It's not a horse who's dead, it's her son, and if that were my child, I'd be right where she is. More power to her!
    First of all, Harve wasn't trivializing the death of Cindy Sheehan's son by comparing him to a dead horse. He was merely paraphrasing an old saying.
    Secondly, apparently, if you were to be "right where she is", it would be on the lecture circuit, telling young kids that this country isn't worth it; that defending the rights of other cultures; that going to war to defend the right for her to speak out against that war isn't worth it.
    She has now crossed the line of sensibility and entered the world of hyprocrisy.
    And now, she believes that she speaks for all those who believe that we shouldn't be in Iraq or anywhere for that matter, if it means having troops there for a military action.
    She can talk all she wants. I'm not listening. My nephew goes to Iraq in a couple of weeks. I love him and will do anything I can to support him. And I hope and pray that he comes back alive. But if he doesn't, I will support my family and my country.
    And Cindy Sheehan won't factor in to it.
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  16. #76
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    I'd be right where she is, meaning protesting in Crawford, Texas. I don't personally know what Mrs. Sheehan has actually said and what is hype made up by the right wing. It's very possible that I wouldn't agree with her on a lot of issues, as I tend to be conservative in many ways. However, when it comes to the war in Iraq, I'm finding that I have to join up with a variety of types of people to make my voice heard. I don't have to agree with them on other issues; I just have to share their belief that we need to get the hell out of Iraq and should never have been there in the first place.

  17. #77
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    I just have to share their belief that we need to get the hell out of Iraq and should never have been there in the first place.
    Excellent discussion point.
    In your opinion, why shouldn't we have been there in the first place and if we pull out now, do you suppose those who fought might get that same empty feeling that we had when we pulled out of Korea and most recently Vietnam?
    Remember Somalia? Remember how ****ed off the troops were when they got yanked by Clinton before they could exact justice on the criminals who killed our men?
    Is that what it has come down to? Nothing worth the price anymore?
    Since this is a political thread in a fire service medium, let me pose this question.
    If someone needed YOUR help and it might pose serious risk to your life, would you help? It's someone that you don't know. It might even be someone of a different ethnicity; perhaps non-English speaking. Would you help if you weighed the risks, knowing that it might cost you your life. What would you do?
    In Iraq; they needed help. The United States chose to help. The military men and women weighed the risks when they joined and knew that it may cost them their lives and THEY CHOSE TO SERVE.
    I know that fighting fires and rescuing victims isn't the same as getting shot at, but DEAD DOESN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.
    How would the fire service like it if when they pulled up to a burning structure, they were met by protestors telling them that what they were doing was wrong, that we were making bad decisions and that too many firefighters had died already.
    This isn't such a stretch when you think about all of the second guessing and arm chair quarter backing that goes on in this society.
    You may not like the decision that puts people into harm's way, but its even worse to put the question into the minds of those that are still getting shot at that a country doesn't support them. And right now, in my opinion, I put Cindy Sheehan right up there with...dare I say it...Jane Fonda.
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  18. #78
    Forum Member Spectre08's Avatar
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    oh, wait a minute. I wouldn't go that far. Cindy Sheehan is just another pathetic protester getting too much media coverage. Jane Fonda was a traitor, plain and simple.
    When I get to hell
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    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

  19. #79
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Jane Fonda was a traitor, plain and simple.
    I knew that my comparison would be misconstrued.
    Jane Fonda spoke out against the war in Vietnam. Jane Fonda went to Hanoi and met with the North Vietnamese. But she was never tried or convicted of treason(traitorous acts). But many thought that her anti-war antics were giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
    The only difference between her and Cindy Sheehan is that Cindy Sheehan has not been to Iraq. She's been to Crawford, TX.
    Semantics. It's all it is.
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  20. #80
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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