1. #26
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    Used it and simply dont like it. I like the flat load better that I can shoulder load and have some working line when I get to my destination.

    Hope that helps alittle...

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    A little flagging will help with alot of the problems mentioned, you could also probably use masking tape if you don't have a source for flagging but don't go crazy wrapping it around the hose or it may not break. We tie a piece of flagging about every 8-10 feet and a piece around the hose and nozzle. The flagging will break when the hose is charged, it keeps the load all together until then, this helps with loading and prevents it falling apart and speghetti-ing when pulling the hose. We have our quick lays in small boxes mounted at the bottom of the engine, the triple fold is actually loaded in a horseshoe pattern, it feeds out and loads easily and we can pull the hose towards the front or rear of the engine as well as straight out to the side.

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    We use the triple layer on every single line with a nozzle attached.Great for quick deployment and relatively easy to re-pack. We love it.

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    We use triple load and found the same problems as mentioned so we put a couple additional changes on it. First, our preconnect beds are double wide, so we put the bottom two layers with loops on them. This way if you have a fence or cars next to the engine you can pull it like a skid and drop it on the ground, or pull the two loops flip the load and shoulder it so it pulls off the top. This is not as difficult as it sounds with the double wide load. Second, since our preconnects are crosslays we put a loop on the opposite side top of the load. That way we can pull both preconnects off the same side if we need to. We just pull the top loop through on the opposite side facing line until we get the nozzle and then walk it out as per normal. Our 2.5 preconnect is off the rear so it is loaded as a standard triple. The triple load is not without it's problems but so far it has worked the best and we have tried multiple hose loads. Our second favorite(still first with some members) is the minuteman. The only problem with this load is you have to walk it all the way out to avoid kinks and most of our fires occur in residential type dwellings and they are usually only 40 to 50 feet from the street. So using the triple usually puts us right at the front door with only two bends in the line instead of having 200' snaked throughout the front yard.

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    My department switched to this lay a few months ago and the only problem we have found is the size of our compartments. they are just a wee bit to narrow. also we are a combination department so some of our volunteers wont take the time to learn it, which causes problems the next time you try to pull it. overall it is a great lay, if you have the right size compartment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzfireSolo
    We switched to the triple layer load a few years ago with great success. Just make sure that the loop under the nozzle is clearly visible and accessible - anything less will ensure that somebody pulls it wrong (i.e. pulling nozzle only).

    In my opinion, the triple layer load is the best textbook hose load. I think that the ultimate load for a crosslay/rear preconnect would be a combination between the minute man and the triple layer, but it would be a pain to ensure that people always packed it right.

    That having been said, we're switching to donut rolled preconnect load on our new engine, which I believe is superior to any bed-load.

    I've never heard of the donut rolled preconnect. Can you discribe or show me a picture of this. I mean I think I have a mental pic??...I know what a donut roll is!!!

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    I like the triple layer, but, it can cause problems if you are attempting to lay an uncharged line up stairs or ladders. It just doesn't flake off your shoulder like a flat or minuteman load. Other than that, I think it's a good load for 150' crosslays, bumper lines, etc. We carry 150' of 2.5" in a triple layer on top of 100' flat loaded. With this set up, we can pull 150' of 2.5" off with minimum of kinks, yet get some decent distance from the pumper.

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    We started using the triple layer load on all of our 1-3/4" preconnects (150' and 200' cross lays and 250' and 350' rear bed lays) about 15 or so years ago, with the exception of the bumper line which is a 75' accordian. We can deploy the bumper line in nothing flat.

    We have had great success with the triple layer and found very few instances where they have made line advancement difficult. There will always be situations where deploying a preconnect has its problems, but overall, I think it's a great load and works well for us.

    We have not used it for 2-1/2". We carry 850' of 2-1/2" on the rear bed and just pull whatever is needed.




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    It's the only one we use for the preconnects, works excellent. We love it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ff5121
    Our second favorite(still first with some members) is the minuteman. The only problem with this load is you have to walk it all the way out to avoid kinks and most of our fires occur in residential type dwellings and they are usually only 40 to 50 feet from the street. So using the triple usually puts us right at the front door with only two bends in the line instead of having 200' snaked throughout the front yard.
    Thats why we switched.
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  11. #36
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    I am a big fan of the triple layer load although I recognize in some instances the flat or minute man load is better suited.

    One dept. I worked on, half the crosslays were triple layer, half were flat.

    My vol. dept., well, I've been trying to force a little change.

    Maybe I've missed something in the thread, but one of the best parts of the triple layer is pulling it in a tight space. Two firefighters, one takes the nozzle, one takes the loop. Walk in opposite directions down the length of the truck and it will flake out beautifully. This makes it a great pack for MVA use on narrow roads or highways. If you're pulling your triple layer with one guy walking straight out, you're missing 50% of the advantage the triple layer provides.

    As for putting the loop through the bale, in my experience, is beneficial. If you drill it into everyone's head to remove the loop from the bale when you grab it, you won't have problems.

    An engineer charging a line before it is called for presents a much bigger problem than just the effect of getting the loop stuck in the bale.

    The biggest problem I've seen with it is finding room to pack it, but that can be done at the station if it come down to it.

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    Default hose loads?

    Pardon my ignorance, but would anyone have a picture handy ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlboater
    Pardon my ignorance, but would anyone have a picture handy ?

    http://www.marionfd.com/TRAINING/triple_load.htm

    I hope the link works.




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    We have used triple lays for at least the last 15 years.

    all are 200ft. 1-1/2" on the engines. Works good as long as you pull the loop as well.
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    We just experimented with the triple layer load and had a positive review from the officers and other firefighters in my dept. But, we have not had this long enough to find-out the problems that exist. After reading this tread, I have noticed that many of you say you have to grab the nozzle and the first loop. My question is, what happens if you do not grab the first loop with the nozzle, is the load still able to be deployed in a somewhat efficent manner?

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    We have used the triple fold on preconnects for many years. Some of the guys still want to stuff the hose through the bale. On our engine we put a medium sized rubber band over the nozzle and the first loop. If you dont break it after you pull it, it will break when charged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbarham View Post
    My question is, what happens if you do not grab the first loop with the nozzle, is the load still able to be deployed in a somewhat efficent manner?
    No. If you fail to grab loop with the nozzle, you will end up with a tangled mess. Train your firefighters 100% or be prepared for failure.

    After a couple more years of using the triple layer, we have come across several more instances where we are unable to deploy the line properly, due to obstacles close to the side of the road. This significantly defeats the appeal of the triple layer load. [I should mention that this is also why I have come to hate crosslays, and believe that a true engine company only has pre-connects off the front or rear].

    If you are considering the triple layer, I would strongly recommend a hybrid-type load like RFDACM mentions, or I mentioned in my previous post. I would amend my previous statements to describe the ideal bed load as a minuteman hybrid with the triple layer, not the other way around. However, until/unless proven otherwise, I will continue to support the donut roll load as the ideal pre-connect configuration.


    WC - interesting idea on the rubber band. If that's what it takes, go for it. It is certainly better than stuffing it through the bale.


    ACM - In re-reading this thread, I am curious as to why your guys had problems with the minute man in the double-wide beds? Are they very tight? How much of a shoulder carry vs. how much of a drag load did they try? Did they put the shoulder carry on top of the drag load, or did they put them side-by-side? My current department doesn't use the minuteman, but my experiences with it in the past have been very positive when done properly, both in single and double-wide beds.
    Last edited by BlitzfireSolo; 03-21-2007 at 11:09 AM.

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    The triple lay is what we use on all three of our engine's cross lays. Works great. A few other are depts don't use it because they think it takes an extra 15 mins. I say it's crap. If you do it once or twice you'll see it's the way to go. We use it on all our 1.75" lines as well as our 2-1/2" pre-connects.

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    Thumbs up

    we now use the triply lay load and the people who take the time to learn it and see the results of it, love it.

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    We've never used the triple lay, although I wouldn't be unwilling to try it. I don't think anyone around here uses it. We had some career FF's from Slidell helping us out for a few days following Hurricane Gustav, and they use the triple lay. Most of my guys had never seen it before. They were interested in it, but so far no one has been begging me to try it

    We use a modified flat lay, which I'll try to describe. Our crosslay beds are double-wide, with connections in the center of the truck, up top. We connect to the discharge, then flat lay, leaving extended loops on the very first layer (loops on both sides of the truck). We continue to flat lay, then when we reach the last length, we extend loops off both sides again ("dog ears", we call them), finishing up with the nozzle laid on top of the hose in the center of the truck.

    To pull this lay, you have three options:

    -Pull the nozzle off the top and advance the entire 150-200' like any regular flat lay;
    -Pull the top loops onto your shoulder. This gives you a 50' working end to take to the fire. As you walk away from the engine, hook an arm into the bottom loops and pull the remaining load to the ground (admittedly this does give you a little spaghetti pile at the engine, which the driver or another firefighter can assist in straightening out); or,
    -Just pull the bottom loops and dump the whole lay on the ground, grab the nozzle, and advance to the fire (the way we did it for years until we added the top loops)

    Advantages:

    -Easy to load and hard to mess up. Dealing with volunteers with varying levels of experience/training/interest, keeping it simple is important.
    -Hard to pull it wrong. Any way you pull it it will still work.
    -When deployed properly, gives you 50' of working line at the door to make entry, instead of just the nozzle and having to drag the whole line with you.
    -When you drop the remaining load on the ground, you can advance perpendicular or parallel to the engine equally as easily, in case you have a problem with a fence, vehicles, etc. in the way.
    -Can be deployed equally as well from either side of the truck.

    Disadvantages:

    -Dropping 100-150' of hose at the engine means you may need some assistance advancing and unkinking it.

    Simplicity is the key here. This lay is simple enough to remember, even for a rookie, but still fairly versatile and effective for most situations.

    We also keep a simple accordian load 100' preconnect in the front bumper well for car fires, trash fires, etc.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
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    Thumbs up

    An update from our FD. Our new engine will have all its 1.75" lines in the donut load as Blitzfire describes. No crosslays or speedlays. For simplicity it's hard to beat rolling hose, and for deploying we couldn't find a better lay. In 25 ft all of the hose regardless of preconnect length is on the ground and one firefighter can advance it. No spaghetti, ever. Our front bumper will carry two donuts of 200 ft each. which if required can be connected for a single 400' line for condos and the like. If you only need a 50[' trash line, you need only disconnect one exposed coupling and couple it to the discharge. Any length from 50-400 ft. is possible very quickly. And we can store all the 1.75" in the station racks in the doubled roll so changing out house a 5 minute op.

    As for our hybrid load, it still works very well. All the hose is off the truck in less than 20 ft. and due to the middle section being triple layers it doesn't tangle or need to be flaked out much like a flat load. The big downside is loading it correctly, it's not easy to figure all the little dynamic if different hosebeds, which does effect it.

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    this has been a very good forum topic.
    however has anyone used it in a suburb/urban enviorment where you need to take the hose up four flights of stairs? I find this the ultimate defiency of the triple layer.

    I use the triple (250' 2x wide) at my volly dept and use the flat (300' 2x wide with ears at the 50' and 150' marks) at my career. both work well at their respected departments(BTW we generally connect to the side discharges at my FT job).

    Still the stretches in cluttered streets and parking lots are definately big issues also. the 2 1/2" preconnects also don't work well in my opinion due to the fact they are being stretched into commerical structures and they tend to be difficult lay outs in my volly's jurisdiction. we almost got the change back to flay b/c a problem at one of our fires a year ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedcbk1 View Post
    this has been a very good forum topic.
    however has anyone used it in a suburb/urban enviorment where you need to take the hose up four flights of stairs? I find this the ultimate defiency of the triple layer.
    What little sense I have, tells me that you'd best drop the triple layer at the first floor or outside and advance the single length up the stairs. If you were to stop short of the full length of the triple layer with any left on the stairs it could become its own decent hose clamp on the stairs when charged. The beauty of the triple layer is the fact that you can stop and charge the line and it's all flaked for you, not so in an enclosed space.

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    Default minute man

    My dept uses triple layer load in our 2 crosslays while the city we run with uses the minute man. I have pulled from both engines and it seems to me the minute man gives the best manuverability but you must know what your doing, while the triple layer is much easier to unload just is harder to navigate turns b/c your dragging hose from behind rather then dropping it as you would with a minute man which is my personal preference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    What little sense I have, tells me that you'd best drop the triple layer at the first floor or outside and advance the single length up the stairs. If you were to stop short of the full length of the triple layer with any left on the stairs it could become its own decent hose clamp on the stairs when charged. The beauty of the triple layer is the fact that you can stop and charge the line and it's all flaked for you, not so in an enclosed space.
    my perferred techniques is to have the length I'll need for the floor on my shoulder as I will navigate the multiple floors up the stairwell, and the back up man is stretching and flaking what is need in the stairs. we actually performed this very efficiently using the mod-flat load. on stairs one of the worst things to to is trying to drag hose up multiple stories. Please remember this is not a sfd but apartments and low to mid rise buildings that I think that works best. Triple loads in the country are good, not urban though IMHO.

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