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  1. #61
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    Here's the other side of the rig. The load is a bit easier to see here.

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  2. #62
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFPCogs08 View Post
    Here's the other side of the rig. The load is a bit easier to see here.

    Cogs
    One question?

    Do kids chase you down the street with their ice cream money?



    Seriously, beautiful Mack!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    One question?

    Do kids chase you down the street with their ice cream money?



    Seriously, beautiful Mack!
    Hey that's our best fundraiser...just don't tell Good Humor.

    Thanks the CF is my favorite rig and a workhorse to be sure.

    Cogs

  4. #64
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    We have gone away from the triple lay because the 2 of us that knew how to load it correctly on the trucks got tired of teaching and reteaching and just doing it ourselves. So screw it load it the way you guys want is what was said. It really does not take any more time just a little thought and practice to load.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmleblanc View Post

    To pull this lay, you have three options:

    -Pull the nozzle off the top and advance the entire 150-200' like any regular flat lay;
    -Pull the top loops onto your shoulder. This gives you a 50' working end to take to the fire. As you walk away from the engine, hook an arm into the bottom loops and pull the remaining load to the ground (admittedly this does give you a little spaghetti pile at the engine, which the driver or another firefighter can assist in straightening out); or,
    -Just pull the bottom loops and dump the whole lay on the ground, grab the nozzle, and advance to the fire (the way we did it for years until we added the top loops)

    Advantages:

    -Easy to load and hard to mess up. Dealing with volunteers with varying levels of experience/training/interest, keeping it simple is important.
    -Hard to pull it wrong. Any way you pull it it will still work.
    -When deployed properly, gives you 50' of working line at the door to make entry, instead of just the nozzle and having to drag the whole line with you.
    -When you drop the remaining load on the ground, you can advance perpendicular or parallel to the engine equally as easily, in case you have a problem with a fence, vehicles, etc. in the way.
    -Can be deployed equally as well from either side of the truck.
    Chief......have you ever heard of the pull and flip for a flat lay? Rather than dumping it, the men pulling the line would pull the amount of hose they are comfortable carrying (usually no more than 150') about halfway out of the bed and flipping it over onto their shoulder to create a shoulder load where the nozzle is on the bottom and the hose is carried and deployed one layer at a time to the objective location. Basically it turns a flat load into a minuteman as its deployed.

    Oulling and dumping is simply sloppy and dangerous and should never be allowed or condoned.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcd0415 View Post
    Has anyone out there put the "Triple Layer Load" into service on their pre-connects. My Department has tried it and some of us (myself included) have found it to be a great hoselay. We sometimes have a manpower problem and found it to work well with limited manpower. Unfortunately the new chief is not a believer and has recently ordered all preconnects repacked to a flat load.

    Does anyone have any input on this hose lay ? good or bad............
    We use triple layer loads for all of our 1 1/4" attack lines, and some of the 2 1/2" lines are loaded this way as well, with some others flat loaded or glendale loaded.

    I love the triple layer load, so quick and easy, no need to extend all the way and hardly kinks.

  7. #67
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    I love the triple layer load as well. When loaded correctly it pulls beautifuly.

    When loaded incorrectly, it is a disaster.
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  8. #68
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    when i was a driver i hated this load. and still do. its too time cosuming. i made captain an had them all flat layed after the next fire we had

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    I love the triple layer load as well. When loaded correctly it pulls beautifuly.

    When loaded incorrectly, it is a disaster.
    Devils Advocate:

    Any line loaded correctly and with pride will pull off clean and nice.

    I am not one who is a fan of preconnects or any manner of load there-of. It is part of the dumbing down of the fire service. I was always taught an efficient engine company should be able to correctly estimate, lay and hook up a dead bed quickly and efficiently.

    Now we have preconnects where 'x' length is coming off no matter what unless you break the line. Which if you are going to break the line, just leads back to correctly estimating from a dead bed.

    But, we have some engines and ladders with Mattydales and some with Triple. I detest loading the triple at 3:30 4am in the morning, but what the OIC and driver want, they get.
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  10. #70
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    Default Our Experience

    We started using the triple layer load about a year ago and have had success with it. The reason we went to it is that we had to "idiot proof" our preconnects. The people who would come to training and run calls were perfectly capable of deploying the flat load and did it quite well. However we had some people who didn't understand the concept of how to deploy it and would end up with a tangled up pile of hose at the side of the engine. Other than the issues other people have brought up about making turns and not always having enough room to come straight off the truck we haven't had any major problems.

  11. #71
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    I prefer the minute man to the triple load. I'm not saying it's bad, I just don't prefer it.

    Also, we run triple loads on both crosslays on my truck. I'm the Driver so I'm not usually the one pulling them. The FF's on my truck like it so that's what we run.
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  12. #72
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorkinMan7 View Post
    We started using the triple layer load about a year ago and have had success with it. The reason we went to it is that we had to "idiot proof" our preconnects. The people who would come to training and run calls were perfectly capable of deploying the flat load and did it quite well. However we had some people who didn't understand the concept of how to deploy it and would end up with a tangled up pile of hose at the side of the engine. Other than the issues other people have brought up about making turns and not always having enough room to come straight off the truck we haven't had any major problems.
    Seriously? Some of your guys couldn't unload the flat lay, but they can load and unload the far more complicated triple fold hose load? I find this both hard to believe AND simple amazing. Sounds to me like someone spent time training people on the triple fold and never spent equal time, or perhaps any time, training on deploying the flat load

  13. #73
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    The thing about the triple fold is there is only about 3 of us who can load it properly so if we aren't there it gets loaded back flat until one of us comes around - its what the chief wants done so we do it. Some of our firefighters (or wannabes) have no technique when it comes to flaking hose with the flatload. All that is required of them with the triple fold is to walk straight.

  14. #74
    Forum Member Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Just read through the thread and I have a few questions

    Please bear in mind, I am just finishing academy, so I am full of questions about department specific things like preconnect loads.

    It seems like some of the traditionalists want flat loaded beds or even rolled hose just sitting on the engine. How do these work?

    I can't see a flat load being anything but the slowest method available. It works for LDH because the 500hp engine is pulling it, but for fire attack?

    As for hose rolls, I can somewhat see unrolling donut rolls right next to the engine for a really long lay, but wouldn't this also be time consuming?

    The department I volunteer for, our neighboring departments, the department that is putting on the academy - in fact, I think pretty much all of the departments in this area all use triple layer load for crosslay preconnects, as well as preconnected bed loads. It's not a big deal to load or deploy the triple - if you're in a tight space, you get 2 guys to pull the loop and nozzle down either side of the truck and it's all out in a couple seconds. If not, just walk to the fire/door and your backup guy grabs the 50' coupling and brings it up behind you.

  15. #75
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    Why would the flat load be slower?


    Its rather simple to deploy. Tip man walks up can grabs several folds for the working length (the amount of hose to get in the door and extinguish the fire with some extra left over*). Tip man walks to the point of entry, another firefighter may pull additional folds off if the tip man isn't walking straight from the engine to make it easier for him. (he can also dump several folds on the street to eliminate the need for a second FF) The bed is either cleared and flaked or broken and attached to the pump. At the point of entry the tip man flakes the bundle on his shoulder in a manner to facilitate advancement into the structure.

    *(extra hose can be taken off if the route to the entrance is obstacle heavy. Just pull the amount wanted off about half way, put over shoulder and the hose will be able to be flaked out while you walk.)

    Its very simple, 2 man operation tops. I like it because like I said before, its hard to mess up and if by some chance someone messes up the flat load it is extremely forgiving.


    I've never heard of anyone having loose rolls of hose for initial lines. Some people have donuts set up for bumper beds, but those are all preconnected to each other and its merely a different way of configuring the bed.
    Last edited by nameless; 07-21-2009 at 05:52 PM.

  16. #76
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Just read through the thread and I have a few questions

    Please bear in mind, I am just finishing academy, so I am full of questions about department specific things like preconnect loads.

    It seems like some of the traditionalists want flat loaded beds or even rolled hose just sitting on the engine. How do these work?

    I can't see a flat load being anything but the slowest method available. It works for LDH because the 500hp engine is pulling it, but for fire attack?

    As for hose rolls, I can somewhat see unrolling donut rolls right next to the engine for a really long lay, but wouldn't this also be time consuming?

    The department I volunteer for, our neighboring departments, the department that is putting on the academy - in fact, I think pretty much all of the departments in this area all use triple layer load for crosslay preconnects, as well as preconnected bed loads. It's not a big deal to load or deploy the triple - if you're in a tight space, you get 2 guys to pull the loop and nozzle down either side of the truck and it's all out in a couple seconds. If not, just walk to the fire/door and your backup guy grabs the 50' coupling and brings it up behind you.
    I would bet you I can deploy our 200 foot flat load faster than you can deploy your 200 foot triple fold. Especially if there was a 90 degree turn right off the rig and only one guy to lay it out. We load the flat lay with "ears" on the second layer and then at 100 feet. The nozzle man shoulders the top 100 and walks away pulling the bottom ear to empty the hose bed. We take the bundle to the door and either the officer or second firefighter pulls the 50 foot coiuple back to flake out the hose.

    The difficulty with the triple layer I have is that anytime you can pull straight off the rig it is a one man deploy, as soon as you have to turn it becomes 2 people, not so with our flat load system since we are carrying the bulk of the hose not dragging it.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    Devils Advocate:

    Any line loaded correctly and with pride will pull off clean and nice...

    I was always taught an efficient engine company should be able to correctly estimate, lay and hook up a dead bed quickly and efficiently.
    I agree with you here 100%. It's simple and very basic. We do not use preconnects at all.

  18. #78
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    Thumbs up

    We run tripples as well on a majority of hose beds... though it isn't ideal with our rubber stuff (industrial). Mentionned earlier was the inability to make corners, and that is particularly bad with our setup. Then again, having room to stretch out 60 feet or so isn't an issue either. We usually run 3 man companies as well- so not needing the two guys for a speedy flat load deployment is kind of nice.

    Another problem we've had is getting the line out of the bed and ready to charge so fast that the pump doesn't have a chance to fully prime. Guys can end up standing around for awhile. We run a 3500 8FG and that sucker can take some time to fill up even with both primers going. And before you ask why we run it dry... let's just say engine cooler and leave it at that. Made the mistake of leaving the tank fill cracked after a call some time ago and a day later we discovered half a tank of water missing. 'Nuff said.

    We recently put a "Cleavland" load in service on one of the trucks as sort of a testbed... and it was pretty well received. It's on youtube as Horizon Cleavland Load take 2... it's a pretty in depth look at it (5 minute type depth) for those who are interested. Hope you like Evenescence.

    Anyways- I'm a huge fan of the tripple and a few guys who know what they're doing can get it in the bed as fast as a flat load. Getting those three guys on a single shift... well, good luck haha.

    All the best,
    Last edited by Eno305; 07-21-2009 at 08:19 PM.
    Ian "Eno" McLeod

  19. #79
    Forum Member Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    Its rather simple to deploy. Tip man walks up can grabs several folds for the working length (the amount of hose to get in the door and extinguish the fire with some extra left over*). Tip man walks to the point of entry, another firefighter may pull additional folds off if the tip man isn't walking straight from the engine to make it easier for him. (he can also dump several folds on the street to eliminate the need for a second FF) The bed is either cleared and flaked or broken and attached to the pump. At the point of entry the tip man flakes the bundle on his shoulder in a manner to facilitate advancement into the structure.
    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    We load the flat lay with "ears" on the second layer and then at 100 feet. The nozzle man shoulders the top 100 and walks away pulling the bottom ear to empty the hose bed. We take the bundle to the door and either the officer or second firefighter pulls the 50 foot coiuple back to flake out the hose.
    hm, neat!
    Please excuse my ignorance, the only flat loads I've seen in person is the LDH in the back of the engines. So the way to advance a flat load is basically like a minuteman. For whatever reason, I was envisioning someone grabbing the nozzle and just pulling from the bed. With the dogears at every section, it makes perfect sense. In fact, i'm not entirely clear what the difference is between minuteman and a flatload with dogears..

    I guess since we're in sprawling suburbia thats why everyone uses triple layer loads around here - plenty of room 99% of the time, and very few structures more than 2 stories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorkinMan7 View Post
    The thing about the triple fold is there is only about 3 of us who can load it properly so if we aren't there it gets loaded back flat until one of us comes around - its what the chief wants done so we do it. Some of our firefighters (or wannabes) have no technique when it comes to flaking hose with the flatload. All that is required of them with the triple fold is to walk straight.
    So if there is a car parked in the way or a fence and gate or bushes, do they special call one of the three of you guys to help them flake it?

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