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    Default Scheduled work days (not work schedules)

    The more and more places I visit, and one I worked for seem to be on this whole work-day schedule thing. Ex: 0800-1700 = training (not always good either), repairing rigs, flushing hydrants and testing them, painting hydrants, inspections, etc etc etc. Maybe they get an hour for lunch. Thank God my new job requires only that I be at scheduled training (usually 2 or 3 times per month for a few hours), be to work on time, and run calls. In other words they leave us alone for the most part.

    So how many of you have these scheduled work days? What do you do during these hours and does it serve a purpose other than ("the public likes to see us stay busy and we save the city lots of money by taking on other tasks and we have more training hours than anyone else so we are Grrrreat!") how ddo you feel about these scheduled days?? Let us know...curious?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ehs7554
    The more and more places I visit, and one I worked for seem to be on this whole work-day schedule thing. Ex: 0800-1700 = training (not always good either), repairing rigs, flushing hydrants and testing them, painting hydrants, inspections, etc etc etc. Maybe they get an hour for lunch. Thank God my new job requires only that I be at scheduled training (usually 2 or 3 times per month for a few hours), be to work on time, and run calls. In other words they leave us alone for the most part.

    So how many of you have these scheduled work days? What do you do during these hours and does it serve a purpose other than ("the public likes to see us stay busy and we save the city lots of money by taking on other tasks and we have more training hours than anyone else so we are Grrrreat!") how ddo you feel about these scheduled days?? Let us know...curious?
    Makes sense to have to work for the money you're being paid, doesn't it?

    -When can you say that ever building in your community has an up-to-date preplan, and that nothing has changed?
    -When can you say that you have no maintainance you can do on the rigs? Are all the tools marked? In working order? Do you know how to use each one?
    -When can you say that you've done all the training you can ever need, and be "done" with training?

    It does serve a purpose. It helps keep you prepared for any emergency you might encounter, and keeps the public safer. Period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Res343cue
    Makes sense to have to work for the money you're being paid, doesn't it?

    -When can you say that ever building in your community has an up-to-date preplan, and that nothing has changed?
    -When can you say that you have no maintainance you can do on the rigs? Are all the tools marked? In working order? Do you know how to use each one?
    -When can you say that you've done all the training you can ever need, and be "done" with training?

    It does serve a purpose. It helps keep you prepared for any emergency you might encounter, and keeps the public safer. Period.
    -We usually do scheduled walk throughs of new businesses and we sometimes go out and tour other places on our own. I agree we should all do this.
    -Rigs go to fleet for maintainance-they have guys paid and trained to work on them.
    -Mark the tools? I know what a haligan is and I guess we do "mark" our company on them.
    - I run every power tool on my rig every day i go in and we all check our packs every day.
    - Yes why be on a rig if you are not familiar with what you carry.
    -I agree there is always room to train. we can not know it all, but there comes a time when some dept's confuse training with busy work.
    -Lastly If you spend all day "training" and "working" what good are you at the fire at 0300. i feel that scheduled 8-5 systems or similar are not that great. Forcing people to do lame work (busy work) and reading ifsta manuals all day is bad for moral. If you do train, limit the time to a couple of hours. You don't want to bore or exhaust your crew. I am not a mechanic , I can change a bulb and wash a rig, but that's it. That's too much money for us to be half-@#@ working on unless you have the background to do it.

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    Lightbulb I think I'm lucky...

    I'm not much on having my day mapped out for me in any rigid sort of way. The nature of our work is such that the schedule should remain as loose as possible. However, unless members are at a station with a heavy call volume, I can't imagine a chief not requesting that they have some sort of order to their day.

    Our chief seems project oriented. By that, I mean that there is a time of the year set aside for different projects -- i.e. hydrant testing is in the spring, business inspections are in the summer. Right now, he doesn't tell us that we have to be doing inspections 0800-1200... but he's given each shift a deadline to have their share done. We have flexibility on how we meet that deadline.

    With city councils anxious to cut spending and folks wondering in a post 9-11 world why firefighters aren't perfect afterall... We need to make sure that we provide a bang for the citizen's buck. I know a department with fewer than 200 runs a year where the career personnel sit in a chair all day long. Sure, they're ready to go when the bell rings... But what are they providing in the mean time? Are they training? No. Are they pre-planning? No. There is more to being an emergency services organization than responding to emergencies.

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    Stay where you are 7554. Here there is some kind of training everyday. Communications folks do all of that kind of stuff and our department dispatches for the whole county and keeps up all of the comm. equipment for same. Hydrant flows are handled by the station crews and Fire Prevention folks. Fire Prevention handles all building inspections and new construction. In my little world we handle all of the maintenance, mobile repairs,hydrant repairs, mounted equipment repairs, blowers, rescue tools, air machines, air pack repairs and testing, fabrication, hose repairs, nozzle repairs, pumper testing, etc.,etc. with 8 people plus standby 365 days a year and respond to all two alarm or greater fires. I also get to listen too all of the citizen complaints as to why the hydrants aren't painted pretty along with the curbs. We have these wonderfull retired and rich people in gated communities who have nothing better to do than walk the neighborhood looking for problems.

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    lvwrecnh, sounds like a grat time.....and I do plan on staying where I am now. What it breaks down to, I gues, is that our shop guys are union members who get paid to do the work. They are not sworn firefighters. Our city publick works dept. is responsible for all plugs and plug maintainance. We do have in-house training with short exams that are due each month (usually 1 per and collected at the end of the year). The point is, we make up the descision on when to do it.
    My overall point is that the dept's and city gov'ts are getting quite a bit for their buck in cases like yours and others above. And just when you think you have plenty and can be given no more to do, they add something else. Heck, my last dept had us doing water sampling tests at each station every weekend for the water dept. Easy to do, but give me a break!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ehs7554
    publick works dept
    And I can't spell either

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    We do all the usual....

    - Hydrants
    - Hose
    - Inspections
    - EMS training
    - Maintain the equipment
    - Rarlely do fire training

    I think we are scheduled to shampoo the carpets Saturday!!!!!

    I am praying for a 12 call ambo day.

    I think smaller dept.s (3 stations here) get stuck with the FF's doing everything. We don't have an inspection division, PR division...etc. So we do everything that the "Fire Service" encompases.

    Lastly If you spend all day "training" and "working" what good are you at the fire at 0300. i feel that scheduled 8-5 systems or similar are not that great.
    Our "work day" is on weekdays from 8AM to 5PM, lunch 12-1PM.

    I can't figure out why every year we wait untill July and August to test hydrants instead of doing it in the Fall or Spring. I do agree that if you spend all day in the 95 degree sun twisting plugs, you aren't much at 3AM when you might need a little extra in the tank.

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    Why trust someone else to inspect and maintain the equipment and water system that we depend to keep us alive and allow us to do our mission?
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

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    I agree with ehs7554. I know where he's coming from since I worked at the same department he's referring to. There 's nothing wrong with training, or even doing apparatus maintenance (if your shop isn't equipped for it). The problem arises when the administration has its FFs doing tasks just to look busy (like washing the rig for the 4th time even though it hasn't moved).

    I've heard people argue that since other city employees have to work 8-5, then we should too. That shouldn't be. First of all, we're not other city employees. Second, we're called to work many times when they are not (i.e. during dinner, during bedtime, while on the crapper or in the shower). We get paid for our potential, not how much work we do. Granted, some days we don't run a call or very few. Then there are other days when we run our butts off, or the BIG one comes in, so it all evens out in the end.

    Most importantly, if it can be helped, we don't want to wear ourselves out to where we can't function in the latter part of our shifts when needed. It's when the emergency arises that we justify our salaries, not on our down time at the firehouse.

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    lvwrecnh, sounds like a grat time.....and I do plan on staying where I am now. What it breaks down to, I gues, is that our shop guys are union members who get paid to do the work. They are not sworn firefighters. Our city publick works dept. is responsible for all plugs and plug maintainance. We do have in-house training with short exams that are due each month (usually 1 per and collected at the end of the year). The point is, we make up the descision on when to do it. My overall point is that the dept's and city gov'ts are getting quite a bit for their buck in cases like yours and others above. And just when you think you have plenty and can be given no more to do, they add something else. Heck, my last dept had us doing water sampling tests at each station every weekend for the water dept. Easy to do, but give me a break!
    ANY and ALL duties and responsiblities should be properly discussed and compensated for in collective bargaining. The city essentially is getting free labor out of you. The fire department isn't meant to be productive just like the military isn't productive rather they are one big insurance policy.

    Performing water department tests? Whats next, having the guys pick up garbage and plow the streets?

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    ANY and ALL duties and responsiblities should be properly discussed and compensated for in collective bargaining. The city essentially is getting free labor out of you. The fire department isn't meant to be productive just like the military isn't productive rather they are one big insurance policy.

    Performing water department tests? Whats next, having the guys pick up garbage and plow the streets?

    FTM-PTB
    The Military is still responsible for making sure their own gear is cleaned and maintained, their weapons work, their ammo is ready to go, and they are trained physically and tactically at all times. Those are the things that you do when you are not out doing your thing, so that you are always ready when the call comes.
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    The Military is still responsible for making sure their own gear is cleaned and maintained, their weapons work, their ammo is ready to go, and they are trained physically and tactically at all times. Those are the things that you do when you are not out doing your thing, so that you are always ready when the call comes.
    This is true, but no one has spoken against training, maintenance or being prepared for a call. All of that needs to be done, but I don't think a scheduled day from 8-5 is the answer. These things mentioned above, and more can be accomplished without strict scheduling, and still leave time for down time (before 5 p.m.).

    The old department I worked for was so regimented that you had scheduled breaks. Even on days when there wasn't anything that needed to be done, you needed to look busy. That's why there were some days when I was ordered to wash the engine for the 4th time, even though it hadn't moved. This is unnecessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TurdFergeson

    I've heard people argue that since other city employees have to work 8-5, then we should too.
    By that argument, other city employees don't get woken up in the middle of the night to perform their jobs, so why can't we wait till the next workday to respond!

    That argument suggests that some people may be regretful of life or career choices that they have made for themselves. Unfortunately, most people do not know what it's like to work in emergency service professions.
    Marc S.
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    (Previously posted as Hobbitt. Registered December '02,)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyrGuy176
    By that argument, other city employees don't get woken up in the middle of the night to perform their jobs, so why can't we wait till the next workday to respond!

    That argument suggests that some people may be regretful of life or career choices that they have made for themselves. Unfortunately, most people do not know what it's like to work in emergency service professions.
    Yes, but the other city workers are not paid to sleep UNTIL they get called up in the middle of the night and get paid for the times that they don't get called up as well.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Yes, but the other city workers are not paid to sleep UNTIL they get called up in the middle of the night and get paid for the times that they don't get called up as well.
    I don't get paid to sleep...I get paid to come and rescue you and your family from a fire or emergency at anytime of the day or night..in all types of weather. I am the insurance policy you hate paying for but are glad you have when you finally need to use it. I am sworn by duty to risk my life to one degree or another for your life and property.

    On average that is 10.4365 times a day for me. If I got paid to sleep I could pick and choose what runs to take in...since I'm not paid to respond to fires at 0450!

    You pay for Marines Sailors and Soliders year round regardless if we are at war or not...Are they paid to not kill anyone?

    That whole concept that we are paid to sleep was probably started by some ignorant, ungrateful, shortsighted and bitter civilian or politican who has no concept of what we are here to do.

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Yes, but the other city workers are not paid to sleep UNTIL they get called up in the middle of the night and get paid for the times that they don't get called up as well.
    The point I was trying to make, through sarcasm, is that you can't compare other job classifications to the fire service, It goes back to the old saying of comparing apples to apples!

    The people who say firefighters have it easy have no idea what it takes to be a firefighter as far as training, competitive testing, time away from family, missing kids events and so on. I've been on the other side of the fence and put in the hard work to have a career in the fire service. It's hard work and time consuming but the rewards are worth it to most of us. A prime example is volunteers who put in more time training, studying, and responding than they do in their "regular" jobs.

    By the way, my department has a structured work day and I don't feel it is that way to show the taxpayer that they are getting something for the money. We maintain the firehouse, train, preplan responses and public/commercial/industrial occupancies, work out, and and still have time to rest and be ready when the tones go off. I take it as learning to do our jobs safer and more efficiently for the taxpayers.
    Marc S.
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    Solon Local 2079

    (Previously posted as Hobbitt. Registered December '02,)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    I don't get paid to sleep...I get paid to come and rescue you and your family from a fire or emergency at anytime of the day or night..in all types of weather. I am the insurance policy you hate paying for but are glad you have when you finally need to use it. I am sworn by duty to risk my life to one degree or another for your life and property.

    On average that is 10.4365 times a day for me. If I got paid to sleep I could pick and choose what runs to take in...since I'm not paid to respond to fires at 0450!

    You pay for Marines Sailors and Soliders year round regardless if we are at war or not...Are they paid to not kill anyone?

    That whole concept that we are paid to sleep was probably started by some ignorant, ungrateful, shortsighted and bitter civilian or politican who has no concept of what we are here to do.

    FTM-PTB
    Sorry, meant to say get paid WHILE we sleep. That is the truth, just the way it is.

    Fire Fighters should not be expected to keep the city's snowplows in shape, or to do health inspections of resturants(well maybe EMS should on occasion), but doing building safety inspections, making sure the hydrants that we DEPEND on are functioning correctly & properly PM'd along with our other equipment, and training to do our jobs is something that we should be doing and not leave to others. Washing apparatus four times in a shift when there has been no runs just to look busy is just plain stupid, but setting a time aside each day to wash the BRT, polish the chrome, or clean and inventory the cabinets should be expected as a daily duty. As much as i like the guys, I am not going to trust the shift before me to have taken care of any tools or supplies that might have been removed or emptied.

    In the Marines I was not paid to "not kill anyone", but I was paid to be sure that I was ready physically, tactically, and equiped correctly to go to war when the time came, and when it did we went, just like when the tones sound leave the fire house and go to the emergency.
    Last edited by DennisTheMenace; 08-30-2005 at 04:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyrGuy176
    The point I was trying to make, through sarcasm, is that you can't compare other job classifications to the fire service, It goes back to the old saying of comparing apples to apples!

    The people who say firefighters have it easy have no idea what it takes to be a firefighter as far as training, competitive testing, time away from family, missing kids events and so on. I've been on the other side of the fence and put in the hard work to have a career in the fire service. It's hard work and time consuming but the rewards are worth it to most of us. A prime example is volunteers who put in more time training, studying, and responding than they do in their "regular" jobs.

    By the way, my department has a structured work day and I don't feel it is that way to show the taxpayer that they are getting something for the money. We maintain the firehouse, train, preplan responses and public/commercial/industrial occupancies, work out, and and still have time to rest and be ready when the tones go off. I take it as learning to do our jobs safer and more efficiently for the taxpayers.
    I think we are pretty close to being on the same page. The now normal firefighters schedule does allow a firefighter to be home with the kids during the day two or three days a week or more, while the poor DPW guy in charge of keeping the storm drains clean is working 9-5 M-F and only sees the kids in the summer on his infrequent days off and the weekend. Both schedules have their major advantages and a few dis-advantages.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    the poor DPW guy in charge of keeping the storm drains clean is working 9-5 M-F and only sees the kids in the summer on his infrequent days off and the weekend.
    Don't forget the holidays we work, unless you are Jehova's Witness in which you don't care. And yes I can say that because I work with one.
    How clean does a fire truck need to be to go on a call? Polishing the chrome? Not every day. Well, I have polished our fire poles, on my own time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ehs7554
    Don't forget the holidays we work, unless you are Jehova's Witness in which you don't care. And yes I can say that because I work with one.
    How clean does a fire truck need to be to go on a call? Polishing the chrome? Not every day. Well, I have polished our fire poles, on my own time.
    Time and a half or better for holiday's is great compensation for when you have to work them. And a Fire Truck needs to be as clean as clean can be to keep it seen and in top shape, doing it more then once a day when it has not left the house is stupid, but not doing it at all is even worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Time and a half or better for holiday's is great compensation for when you have to work them. And a Fire Truck needs to be as clean as clean can be to keep it seen and in top shape, doing it more then once a day when it has not left the house is stupid, but not doing it at all is even worse.
    Honestly DTM I have to disagree somewhat on the holiday issue. While I don't have any kids...I can't imagine any father wouldn't rather be a home with his kids on Christmas Morning or BBQing, or out on the water with the family on the 4th, than earning 1 1/2 time...also you might be unaware that everyone gets a holiday check every year so that yearly holiday pay is evened out and everyone gets the same regardless of the day one works. In our house the guys without kids always volunteer to work for the guys with kids. I know that is pretty common job wide.

    As for cleaning the rig...Unless it gets completely filthy and we have the time & energy ours gets a bath once a week.

    FTM-PTB

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    I don't get paid to sleep...I get paid to come and rescue you and your family from a fire or emergency at anytime of the day or night..in all types of weather. I am the insurance policy you hate paying for but are glad you have when you finally need to use it. I am sworn by duty to risk my life to one degree or another for your life and property.

    On average that is 10.4365 times a day for me. If I got paid to sleep I could pick and choose what runs to take in...since I'm not paid to respond to fires at 0450!

    You pay for Marines Sailors and Soliders year round regardless if we are at war or not...Are they paid to not kill anyone?

    That whole concept that we are paid to sleep was probably started by some ignorant, ungrateful, shortsighted and bitter civilian or politican who has no concept of what we are here to do.
    Well said FFFRED.
    Last edited by TurdFergeson; 08-30-2005 at 07:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    While I don't have any kids...I can't imagine any father wouldn't rather be a home with his kids on Christmas Morning or BBQing, or out on the water with the family on the 4th, than earning 1 1/2 time...
    No kids that you know of .

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    Default work days

    I work at a major airport as a ARFF Firefighter, and we do the typical 8-5 work day also. Roll call, truck checks, surveys-inspections,ect. Lunch from Noon to 1pm (in a perfect world)then at 1-mandatory training until 3pm. Then from 3 to 5-mandatory workout. After 6pm lunch, then the day is ours to do what each individual pleases. Weekends are free for all.

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