Thread: Stats So Far...

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    Default Stats So Far...

    Just doing some figuring....someone correct me if I'm wrong. The AFG final rule says about $585 million available for AFG grants (after subtracting FPG and administrative costs). It looks like about $282 million has been dished out so far, so it would seem there is still a little more than half the money still to be granted....Hopefully that gives some more hope to those who haven't heard anything yet.

    And (to stir the pot after last years threads) it looks like Pennsylvania leads the way with the most $$ again this year

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    I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up again.

    Thanks for setting me up for a flood of emails to explain it to all of the new folks around here, I had nothing scheduled for the next few hours...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up again.

    Thanks for setting me up for a flood of emails to explain it to all of the new folks around here, I had nothing scheduled for the next few hours...
    Just here to serve.......and screw up your weekend.

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    Thanks, I was hoping someone would help me out there. Having a pregnant wife and a mother-in-law visiting weren't quite doing the job all of the way. This should take care of it.

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    Your mother-in-law isn't from Pennsylvania is she?

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    Yep. I can't complain too much though, she brought me 8 cases of Lager from up there. Closest I can get it here is in Mobile.

    Then again anyone that brings me 8 cases of beer can stay with me.

    Emphasis on beer, not water (Coors Light, Natural Light, Piels, etc).

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    Emphasis on beer, not water (Coors Light, Natural Light, Piels, etc).
    Water would basically include anything NOT brewed in Wisconsin.

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    Default Chances

    OK. Let me ask this. Since they awarded most of the vehicles in Round 1 is it safe to say that we will start seeing more awards that add up to less amounts? Am I making sense with this question? Half the money is already gone and only two rounds have been announced. How many rounds will there be ... four?

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    Yes, the first was only huge because everything got backed up with the money. There will be rounds every Friday until around Halloween.

    $130,197,449 is the Vehicle total to date. $162,500,000 available, $32,302,551 left for trucks. I don't see there being Vehicle Awards much longer. This round had around $39 million in trucks in it, so unfortunately, the wait could be over really soon for those waiting to hear on trucks.

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    Thanks for the insight (again) Brian. Our app was for SCBA but it was HUGE. The chiefs don't believe in going for partial replacement so we went for every seated position SCBA on our first-due apparatus. HUGE!! More than some of the trucks they've been awarding. (I'm not too optimistic about it but we'll see )

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    I've had a couple of big SCBA projects get funded already. It will all depend upon the stast you put with that request and if ALL of the requested SCBAs are replacing equipment 10 + years of age.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Default Pennsylvania

    Pennsylvania has, I believe, the largest number or close to the largest number of Fire Departments in the country. If you were able to see how many apps were submitted by state, I strongly feel that PA would rank up there pretty high.

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    Yep, law of averages. PA has the most FDs in the country, and the most apps every year, so should end up with the most awards. Followed by NY and TX. I can't remember who was after that offhand, on one of the other 5 computers I own so I don't have my stats in front of me.

    As Kurt said, the SCBA replacement projects have to be old enough, and if not, refurb is the most cost-effective manner. Our Scott 4.5s were $1000 each to upgrade to NFPA 1981-2002 standards, so at $4800 new, it's a 5-1 advantage on the upgrade. 2.2s are definitely a full new purchase, I don't believe upgrading to 4.5 is an option on most brands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 298lieut
    Pennsylvania has, I believe, the largest number or close to the largest number of Fire Departments in the country. If you were able to see how many apps were submitted by state, I strongly feel that PA would rank up there pretty high.
    Well aware of that....especially after last years prolonged "investigation" by this forum I was just stirrin' the pot up for a little fun

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    Our current SCBAs are 15 years old. They were all purchased at the same time. Since we run over 1,000 fire-related calls per year (another 1,500+ in EMS) we think it's about time we replace them with units that are safer and more up-to-date. That plus the fact that we cover over 63 square miles and provide mutual aid/assistance on a regular basis to seven other districts ... I could go on but I think you get the picture.

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    kssmith as long as you clearly delineated exactly how many seated positions there were on your apparatus, you should have a good shot at it. Hopefully you did not try to count, utiltiy vehicles and support vans, chief cars etc..That would have raised a red flag. As long as you listed your primary attack apparatus you should be fine.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Default Uh-Oh

    Thanks Kurt! After perusing the forums for a bit and comparing to some of the things found in the program guidance, we did put in for one pack for each of our two safety officers and one for each of our three chiefs vehicles. The only reason we did that was because there was something (I don't know exactly where but I think in the program guidance) that stated that it was acceptable because they respond directly to the scene of incidents to get initial command and size-up going. We did NOT try to get the 30+ extra bottles that our rescue truck holds. (Don't think the chiefs didn't want to try, though. Actually, they think it was part of the proposal but I cut it out and haven't told them yet. ) We really only went for 1 complete unit (plus spare bottle) for each seated position in first-attack. We do have a large fleet for a volunteer FD. But, I don't think we actually outlined each of our apparatus and how many seated positions there are in each of them . Do you think there's a chance that they would call us and ask those questions if everything else we put in looked good enough?

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    Just because it says you can apply for up to a $1,000,000.00 dollars, do you apply for it if you don't really need it? No! The question you should have asked was, were the safety offciers or any of those Chiefs on a first intitial interior attack crew or were they essentially command and control from outside. Did they need air, immediately upon arrival?

    This is one of the hardest things I have to teach fire chiefs and aspiring grant writers is that, just because it says you can, does not mean that you should. The reasonableness of your project carries a great deal of weight with a reviewer and you have to be careful to never run the greedy flag up in front of them. You must have "sensed greed" yourself when you chopped out the spare bottles on your air truck, which by the way probably would have been justifed quite easily if you had the MA agreements in place and it rolls constantly for you. Just like I used to teach my rookie cops, "if the hair stands up on the back of your neck, there is a reason. Pay attention to that and find out why!" You had already sensed that before you submitted and obviously you are still feeling that way. If you are feeling that way and you are a part of the department, what do you think someoen who is not a member will think when reviewing the narrative?

    The number 4 reason for grants being rejected in AFGP is "taking a shopping cart approach" . This is basically the same thing. Sure the program guidance says you can apply for all these different areas in equipment, PPE and wellness & fitness but, I also see many a rejected application because they did not focus on the essentials.

    I would say you have some things to worry about but, will you be funded? I cannot say for sure. Will they call and ask for a reduction, maybe! Hopefully!

    Keep your fingers crossed and if it does not make it, learn from your mistakes and try again. Good luck!
    Last edited by ktb9780; 08-27-2005 at 04:19 PM.
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    They'll reduce the count by the chief's and safety officer vehicles if the application was deemed competitive and reviewed favorably, and it comes to award. I've had that happen to a few people already.

    The same thing with extra packs, people had asked for packs for a compartment for people that came POV, but since there are only 5 seats on the truck, 5 SCBA was it.

    SCBA is the same as radios for a POV chief's vehicle, it has to be addressed and justified in the narrative. If not, as Kurt said, it will either get dropped if you're scored well, or you run the risk for a low score because they think guidelines were not followed.

    And IMHO, just because something is 15 y/o doesn't mean it isn't safe. I think I addressed this exact subject in the latest article using SCBA as the example. The only difference the 2002 edition of NFPA 1981 added over it's predecessor was the HUD for air capacity status, RIT & buddy breather connections. Having both pre and post-2002 edition SCBA in our department, the only time it will ever matter is in a failure scenario and the buddy breather is needed. If it's a FF down situation, the RIT pack takes over and right now, since we have the mixed batch, like most everyone else we take off the regulator and put on the one from the RIT pack instead of hunting for the connection since we only have 7 packs with it. So if you aren't aggressively training in RIT as stated in the narrative, reviewers may not find a reason you need new ones. Especially if you already have 4500psi SCBA with composite bottles. Now 2200psi with steel bottles, that's really easy to justify upgrading on many, many levels.

    Either way, it's not over yet, and to paraphrase my esteemed colleague, learn from it for next year if you're not holding the roses at the end of the horse race.

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    "Especially if you already have 4500psi SCBA with composite bottles. Now 2200psi with steel bottles, that's really easy to justify upgrading on many, many levels."

    That may be our saving grace ... We have 2.2/30-min steel bottles. That was well spelled out in the narrative. I'd be thrilled with a call for reduction at this point.
    Last edited by ksmith31; 08-29-2005 at 12:55 PM. Reason: add comment

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