1. #1
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    Question Rearmount pumps- Good or Bad?

    My department's engine commitee is considering a rearmount pump. What are the pros and cons? Does your department use rearmount pump? Comments welcome.

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    My department is now running 17 or 18 spartans with a rear mounted pump. The mechanics seem to love them but the drivers don't much care for them.

    These trucks are now configured with the pump panel on the Left rear quarter of the engine, which places the operator in a precarious position during highway ops. The rear mounted configuration seems to have little effect on stability of the rigs and mechanically, they seem to work very well. If you can place the pump panel in a more protected position I don't see that it makes a big difference where the pump is (remote valves ARE a bigger maintenance problem).

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowtown
    My department is now running 17 or 18 spartans with a rear mounted pump. The mechanics seem to love them but the drivers don't much care for them.

    These trucks are now configured with the pump panel on the Left rear quarter of the engine, which places the operator in a precarious position during highway ops. The rear mounted configuration seems to have little effect on stability of the rigs and mechanically, they seem to work very well. If you can place the pump panel in a more protected position I don't see that it makes a big difference where the pump is (remote valves ARE a bigger maintenance problem).

    Uhhhhhhhhh your engineers / chauffers shouldn't be at any higher risk, because the highways are closed, right? That's not a design problem of the apparatus, that's a training and safety issue that should be addressed by the department.
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    Rescue,

    I don't really see how placing the engineer at the rear of the truck is a good idea at any time. Now I have to divert attention to watching his back until PD or another unit arrives to help us close the road. The current design takes the driver out of the established "Safe Zone" in front of the truck and places him back in the "hot Zone". Just look at the latest issue of Firehouse to see what a difference a few seconds make.

    As far as the departmentchanging the way they are designing trucks - it ain't happening anytime soon.
    Last edited by cowtown; 08-28-2005 at 12:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res343cue
    Uhhhhhhhhh your engineers / chauffers shouldn't be at any higher risk, because the highways are closed, right? That's not a design problem of the apparatus, that's a training and safety issue that should be addressed by the department.
    Uhhhh, if you place your apparatus at a 30-45 angle to the left at a car fire for example, where does this leave your Engineer? We have almost 20 rear mount engines. The pump panel is in the left rear compartment.

    Problem we have run into is that the pump heats up quicker because of smaller pump/ less area to disipate heat. We have a Hale TRV installed also.

    We're over the rear mount pump idea. Just ordered nine new engines back to midship pumps.

    Also to original poster, do a search...this topic has been discussed in length many times.

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    Place your apparatus 30-45 degrees to the right, then.
    "Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."

    Safety is no accident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanGuy
    Place your apparatus 30-45 degrees to the right, then.
    Sure, but not always possible. If the accident/vehicle fire is against the right median (emergency lane) wall I like to isolate the scene/area as much as possible by using my apparatus and the wall. If I park to the right with my nose to the median wall, this leaves the entire scene open to the left allowing a vehicle that may spin/ drive into the scene.

    We're very serious about scene safety on the interstate. We have 2- 5-6 lane (each side) Interstates running through our first in.

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    Well, regardless of rear or midship pump, unless your truck is like an American LaFrance 700 series with the pump panel on the passenger's side, your engineer is still going to be in the middle of the exposed side of the truck when parked to the left.
    "Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."

    Safety is no accident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanGuy
    Place your apparatus 30-45 degrees to the right, then.
    That's fine if you want traffic to move to the right. The way I've been taught, and teach, traffic control is to angle the apparatus in the direction you want traffic to go.

    The only way that I know of to keep the driver out of traffic is with a top-mount pump panel. But then again, the driver is going for one heckuva ride if the truck gets hit.

    As for closing the highway... what do you think creates the safe work area? It's the apparatus acting as a barrier for those working. For a while it's going to be the first one on scene. A police car is only going to offer a limited about of protection, it's simply an advanced warning device.

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    We presently run a 2001 Boise Mobile on a HME chassis. The chassis has a cramp angle of 45* and the truck has a wheelbase of 170" making it incredibly manuverable for a rescue with a 1500 gpm 600/30/30. Remember a few things pros and cons if you do this. With a rear mount you reduce the wheelbase about 42" or the size of the pump panel. We gained a large traverse compartment at the head of the body that holds stokes basket, SKED, little giant ladder, backboard, and room for long 4 x 4 lumber all in the same traverse area where the pump would be. All discharges (except the trash line) all come off the back reducing friction loss in the plumbing and are within easy reach of the operator. A con though is the hosebed tends to be a bit high due to the pump in the rear. My suggestion is though is to take a good hard look at it there are some distinct pros to this concept. When we bid ours all the big boys (ALF, Pierce, E-1) said it was a fad and there was no demand for a unit as this....well guess who's pushing them now like they invented them (pierce). Look at the BME as well as Rosenbauer , Eric Saulsbury (yes that SAULSBURY) works for Rosenbauer and is building some really functional rear mounts that sure look like Saulsbury's and be sure to get a light mast and put the fire extinguishers over the wheelwells.

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    Yeah, that Rosenbauer rear mount Tech Drive Rescue Pumper looks soooo nice. And its panel is on the right side.

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    My department just put in service a 2005 KME rescue pumper. Our pump panel is in the back compartment on the right side. So far we havent had any problems and on structure fires, the operator is out of traffic flow.

    Also, to whoever it was who posted about directing traffic with the direction of your parked apparatus......if you angle to the right and you are against a median or bridge, where will the traffic be funneled? Into the bridge/median? I think not. I know drivers are inherently retarded but......I think they would have sense enough to move around the truck and into traffic lanes and not sit there or run into a concrete abutment. Just my two cents.
    Firefighter/EMT-B
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    Rear-mount pumps may be more than a rage, they may be the standard with the new emissions standards coming in 2007. Several manufacturers reps say they are having problems trying to get a mid-ship pump in place with all of the extra junk required on the exhaust system in preparation for those regulations to hit. Just not enough space. We've got 1 to spec in 2006 and 1 in 2007, and we may end up rear-mount on both for the same reason buckdog said, lots more compartment space in the front of the body. Plenty of room to add in hydraulic reels, other toys, and make rescue-pumpers out of them. I like having all of the discharges in one spot on the back too, instead of having some on the left, some on the rear, some on the back. Station2's new buggy has all discharges on the officer's side, pump panel on the driver's with a mid-ship pump. Just another flavor in the mix.

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