1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Steamer, I am fairly certain that Pres. Bush is at fault for that, aren't you?
    I'm sure somewhere down the line, it will be made to be his fault.

    If there isn't an honest and legitimate after action analysis of this cluster ****, the emergency services organizations on a national level need to raise forty kinds of hell. This has been about the most rediculous misuse of resources I've ever seen. To have that much transportation available and sitting unused, nears criminal liability in my mind. I wonder how many people could have been moved out of the city to higher ground prior to the storm making it unsafe? If not everybody, at least those with increased needs such as persons unable to care for themselves.

    I really hate to see this shift into the blame game at this point, but all agencies at all levels should know it's coming. There's plenty of problems to look at.
    Steve Gallagher
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    "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcaldwell
    I can't comment on the Mayor's motivation, but you are probably right George.

    But to further my point, if you are triaging an accident scene, and the Ambulatory pt's are in the way of the Critical pt's, you don't leave the walking wounded in the way, you get them out to make room to work on those who need it.

    Similar difference to me.
    I tell them to go sit over there and let us work on these badly injured people.

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    Not to completely pass the blame from the local agencies, but DHS dropped the damn ball BIG TIME. You mean to tell me that in the almost 4 years since 9/11, this is the DHS can do? How much money have they spent? It looks to me like whatever plans theve made dont work. They need to clean house and start over.

    The way I see it, the USCG was the only federal agancy that didnt have their heads up their a**. They reacted as soon as the storm passed and had resources on the way. Dont take that to mean I blame the military, they had to wait for orders. Thats were the problem started. Thoese orders were WAY to late in comming.

    As for the locals, yeah, nice planning. But let me say this. No local government can cope with the size of this disatster, no matter how good your plans are. I fell very confident in my counties disaster plans, but a CAT4/5 with a 30' storm surge is beyond our abilities, as it would be for anyones. Nobody on a local level could be prepared for that without a massive amount of federal money, and thats not going to happen. So you do the best you can with what you have and hope the feds pick up were you leave off.

    Good thing there hasnt been another big terorist attack.
    Last edited by Dave1983; 09-03-2005 at 11:48 AM.
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  4. #54
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    Thumbs down

    From an emergency services worker, this is absolutely embarrasing. As GeorgeWendtCFI said, it all starts at the local level and escalates to the state. There doesn't seem to be any organization from either the local, state or federal level. Heck, I doesn't even appear that IMS has been implimented (so much for all that TRAINING they have been shoving down our throats). It's hard to tell who's in charge (if anyone is).

    When this first started, FEMA sent a request "no freelancing". Understandable, there has to be a controlled effort to handle this, but it seems FEMA is lost or has no clue. They other day they requested 1000, 2-member teams to go as advisors (hand out forms and explain to people how to apply for aid), this is bass-ackwards. First, why do you need firefighters to hand out forms?? Secretaries could do that. Second, we (fire/police/ems) have not yet removed people/victims from harms way, that should be a PRIORITY before shoving forms down their throat.

    WE NEED TO BRING "CALM TO CHAOS" before anything else happens.

    I am more than willing to help our brothers (not hand out forms). If requested, I would leave immediately to go relieve our brothers so that they can "catch their breath". How many of them have seen home or even know if their families are o.k. since Katrina hit???

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    Default Why am I waiting.

    I call things as i see them i dont think this is a cluster i dont think this is a snafu (situation normal all F@#%ed up) this is a tarfu (things are really F@#%ed up). I happen to be a soldier in the US Army. I am currently stationed at Ft. Campbell KY as a soldier in the 101st airborne division (air assult). For those of you that dont know what the 101st does we are the worlds only air assult division. Air assult is useing helicopters to insert people and equipment quickley into remote areas. You know what really surprises me we are just sitting here. We have military medics, we have infantry soldiers we have the helicopters and yet no one has gone. I myself happen to be a NREMT-I and a IFSAC FF-II and HAZMAT Tech. Why am i sitting here. I have training and equipment to help me live in places that are harsh like that. My company happens to be pritty much all water treatment specialists (think they could help out a little?) and firefighters. Trust me Ive been waiting for the command to come and tell me that i should go. Hell I asked one person what i could do and they said donate money. I am a person of action I am a firefighter and a soldier nothing in what i do ever tells me to sit around and wait to do something I go do it. But, yes i understand the position of the federal gov with the issue of useing federal troops (one civilian gets shot and all hell would break loose) we arent trained as cops we dont treat people nice. Furthermore, I dont think we sould be sitting around here bickering about this. We let our congress men and women know how we feel and things will change. We all need to do it though not just one or two and get your friends to do it too. Lastly, we should all pray for the men and women that have been affected like this the NO firefighters and cops, the first responders that got called, the civilians, and yes lastly even the low life looters and rapests and the people shooting at the first responders. WE Will NEVER Forget NO, EGH, FTM-PTB

    The views expressed above are in no way representative of my command my unit the US Army the federal gov or anyone else in that matter. They are stricktly my own. If anyone wishes to quote me please understand that I wish to remain annonomus in my statements.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tristin405
    I call things as i see them i dont think this is a cluster i dont think this is a snafu (situation normal all F@#%ed up) this is a tarfu (things are really F@#%ed up). I happen to be a soldier in the US Army. I am currently stationed at Ft. Campbell KY as a soldier in the 101st airborne division (air assult). For those of you that dont know what the 101st does we are the worlds only air assult division. Air assult is useing helicopters to insert people and equipment quickley into remote areas. You know what really surprises me we are just sitting here. We have military medics, we have infantry soldiers we have the helicopters and yet no one has gone. I myself happen to be a NREMT-I and a IFSAC FF-II and HAZMAT Tech. Why am i sitting here. I have training and equipment to help me live in places that are harsh like that. My company happens to be pritty much all water treatment specialists (think they could help out a little?) and firefighters. Trust me Ive been waiting for the command to come and tell me that i should go. Hell I asked one person what i could do and they said donate money. I am a person of action I am a firefighter and a soldier nothing in what i do ever tells me to sit around and wait to do something I go do it. But, yes i understand the position of the federal gov with the issue of useing federal troops (one civilian gets shot and all hell would break loose) we arent trained as cops we dont treat people nice. Furthermore, I dont think we sould be sitting around here bickering about this. We let our congress men and women know how we feel and things will change. We all need to do it though not just one or two and get your friends to do it too. Lastly, we should all pray for the men and women that have been affected like this the NO firefighters and cops, the first responders that got called, the civilians, and yes lastly even the low life looters and rapests and the people shooting at the first responders. WE Will NEVER Forget NO, EGH, FTM-PTB

    The views expressed above are in no way representative of my command my unit the US Army the federal gov or anyone else in that matter. They are stricktly my own. If anyone wishes to quote me please understand that I wish to remain annonomus in my statements.

    Exactly what Im talking about. Everybody with a TV and a care in this country could see what was going on in the Big Easy. How many of you thought the same as our brave friend from the 101st? I know its exactly what thoese of us gathered around the tube at work were thinking (and saying). Why couldnt the people running this country see it? By the 3rd day, the 101st should have been in the air.
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  7. #57
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    The problem I keep hearing is that the Feds can't begin to send resources until local and state resources are depleted and State officials request them. If this is true, it sucks, and someone in Louisiana dropped the ball (which wouldn't surprise me).

    Here in Louisiana we have a unique arrangement regarding hazardous materials incidents....Louisiana State Police is the top agency for hazmat incidents. They have special Hazmat units that respond to all major incidents. Ordinarily they will only respond to advise and make sure the local jurisdiction is handling the incident adequately. However, if they think you're screwing up the scene, or don't know what you're doing, they have the authority to intervene and take over the incident .

    Seems to me this is similar to what is happening here....As soon as the Feds saw that Louisiana was not up to handling this incident alone (like, as soon as the damage became obvious), they should have stepped in and taken over , because Louisiana was screwing up the response!

    Louisiana has a lot of good things going for it, but politics all too often overrides common sense...
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
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    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  8. #58
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    The government knew that this category 5 hurricane was coming to New Orleans & the gulf coast days ahead of time. They the US Government should have been preparing for it then, not after. So what was the government waiting for? I guess they waited for it to happen.

    As far as the response goes, I remember it took a few days for resources to reach Florida when they got hit a few years back and that is President Bush's Brother's state. I do think that by now and even as of Friday these people stranded on the highway and other areas should have been helped or at least been given food and water. This stuff should have reached them by now.
    You need only two tools: WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the duct tape.

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    I think this is the problem:

    WHO IS IN CHARGE? Some one needs to step up, be the IC and make things happen. The total response has been a joke.

    There are military units who are spec. communication units who could have set up a basic comm. network in the 1st day that would have allowed for a better run situation.

    I could keep going on and on but it all comes down to who actually is in charge. Get the politicians out of this and get some one with some training and some leadership abilities to run this show. The politicians should be providing assistance to make sure the orders are carried out. There is so much red tape out there that we can not see you hand in front of our face.

    Will we ever learn?

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    I guess what bothers me the most is the lack of thinking outside the box --- I have seen very few instances of resources from the private sector being utilized. Every body and their brother in Louisiana has some type of boat -- The oil field has just about every type of machinery known to man. Tugs -- barges -- derrick barges etc. All comes with a get it done type attitude --
    Something this size requires more than just going by the book.

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    Just heard some good news --- Louisiana just hired James Lee Witt.

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    Exclamation New Orleans Threw in the towel early!

    The break down occur too early with city services.50 % half the police force walked.Hell ! I heard in one report that some police officers were looting.When half the police force walks away from duties you can expect loss of order.Let me add that the other half have of the police force deserve a medal for operating under true hardship.The city of new orleans infurtructure fail apart early which cause a huge gap in services.

    FEMA,DOD,Coast Guard and private groups like the Red Cross and the Salvation Army can not pull a can of fix all out of there *** and SPRAY OVER THE ENTIRE CITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This will take time!The race card is being played heavy by certain groups.Shame on them.This is about saving lives not being saving face or throwing mud.
    Always a day late and a dollar short!

    Hillbilly Irish!

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    I happen to be a soldier in the US Army. I am currently stationed at Ft. Campbell KY as a soldier in the 101st airborne division (air assult). For those of you that dont know what the 101st does we are the worlds only air assult division. Air assult is useing helicopters to insert people and equipment quickley into remote areas. You know what really surprises me we are just sitting here. We have military medics, we have infantry soldiers we have the helicopters and yet no one has gone
    How many of you thought the same as our brave friend from the 101st? I know its exactly what thoese of us gathered around the tube at work were thinking (and saying). Why couldnt the people running this country see it? By the 3rd day, the 101st should have been in the air.
    Tristan and Dave 1983: I asked this very same question on the first page. Canadians have an IRU: Immediate Reaction Unit. Their functions seem very similar to the 101st. In fact, Canada has offered their IRU and other resources in support of US efforts. Papers are reporting that the US won't be able to give their answer to the Canadians until at least Wednesday, Sept, 7th. I guess we'll see then what the US plan of action will be.
    IACOJ
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    I am willing to learn.

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    This quote is from the National Response Plan:
    'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...
    Oh. My Bad. It's from the Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00.

    Somehow, this will be Pres. Bush's fault, too.

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    I worked with a paramedic last night on the ambulance who worked in Dade county (Miami area) when Andrew hit. That was 13 years ago and he tells me they ran into some of the exact same problems then. Complete collapse of local management, the state spinning their wheels waiting for the Feds to come in and of course, the Feds not doing anything cause nobody asked for help. So while the state and Feds were busy pointing fingers at each other, the people in Dade waited almost 5 days before any help arrived.

    Nice to see we learned from Andrew and were so much better prepared (at all levels) this time.
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    Thumbs down finally

    I see CNN news FINALLY admitted that there are hundreds of Firefighters at the Fire Institute at Baton Rouge awaiting something to do. FEMA calls them up and then they just sit.
    It is a sad thing to have all this equipment and manpower to get r done and fema has to go through the red tape.

    TIME FOR A CHANGE

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    The Red Cross had food and water ready to go for the people in the Superdome and Convention Center and were DENIED access by the state because they didn't want people going there, they wanted them out. What each and every one of us should be doing is checking up on our own mayor or corasponding individual and our governor. Perhaps we will find that they are as incompenant as the mayor of NO and governor of LA.

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    This is completely bad news for all of you George W. Bush haters.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=46224

    Of course, someone will post that this is his fault, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldman21220
    The mayor didn't want a moratorium on press conferences when he was making the rounds multiple times. Have you heard him explain the plan that the city had in place to evacuate those who were unable to self evacuate? Of course not and you never will, nor will anyone demand that he do so.

    What plan? New Orleans had acres and acres of school bus's just sitting in the bus depot, now flooded. You can not say "there was no way to evacuate those who wished to". Those who wished to stay are to blame for there own predicament. The Mayor is to blame if anyone wanted to leave and could not.
    The Governor would have activated the state resources for LA's damaged areas immediatly. If these were insufficient then she would then ask FEMA for aid. She has to ask for help. She did .... four days later. Once activated FEMA's response is not overnight.
    The state of Miss first asked Florida for assistance. Florida Task Force 3 was mobilzed on sunday before Katrina hit. It was staged in Crestveiw Florida. We had a fast team on the ground in Biloxi Tuesday morning. Responders have to wait for the winds to drop below 20mph before they can travel. The logistics of moving that amount of equip and responders is pretty tough.
    The Feds are getting to the accessible areas ASAP. The media's rants about FEMA not getting to needy people in a reasonable amount of time is BS. The areas shown by the media has either 4 ft of water or armed looters. do you expect them to be in there like that.
    We had a FEMA team ( Indiana Task Force 1 ) arrive the wednesday after Katrina hit. Lets see, Monday morning, Tuesday morning, Wednesday morning. Thats 48 hrs. Thats quick by most standards.
    N'orleans Mayor and LA's Guv'na better watch what they say. Any blame lies with local and state politicos.
    Last edited by khallman; 09-09-2005 at 08:31 PM.

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