1. #1
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    Default Response to Katrina

    I am wondering what most guys think about the Federal response to Katrina. Here is a Link from Yahoo on what the mayor of New Orleans thinks.

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ngry_mayor_hk1
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    There is an old saying ...........Rome was't built in a day!

    We all wish things could happen faster but it doesnt and as the governer stated you work with what you have and dont get into a blame game.
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    Angry Huh??........................

    Federal Response?? What Federal Response?? You mean the one where the guy who couldn't pass a SCBA fit test talks on the 6 o'clock news?

    We need to get ourselves together. That's right, US, those of us here on the Forums. We need to start calling our Congressmen and Senators, demanding an overhaul of FEMA. Anyone without actual, verifiable field experience in emergency response needs to work in some other place, not FEMA. I refuse to bash Law Enforcement. They are in the same shape as Fire/Rescue/EMS, in that they are not getting TIMELY assistance.

    Next, Am I the only person that thinks there's more to this disaster than New Orleans? No disrespect intended, but we need to be moving to help ALL of the stricken area, not just the high profile places where the bureaucrats can grab a photo op.
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    Maybe I think in terms that are too basic but...
    If Pres. Bush can fly overhead in AF1
    then why can't hercs/heli's/whatever drop food and supplies in LZ's manned by the Nat'l guard and reg force soldiers from other states?

    Yes, I know, I'm a crazy Canuk but it just seems a bit odd to me...
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    This is a no-win situation. I think the scope of this disaster is beyond anything that this country has encountered in its history, almost a doomsday scenario. The San Francisco earthquake in 1906 destroyed a large portion of that city, over 3,000 died from all causes. Damage was estimated at $500,000,000 in 1906 dollars, but in scale it still pales in comparison to this event. An entire major city needs to be evacuated and that is only one part of the Gulf area that was destroyed. Imagine planning that tabletop exercise! The logistics involved are beyond belief: evacuating hundreds of thousands of people, housing and clothing and feeding them somewhere else, medical treatment, medicine, communications, complete loss of the local economy, loss of the ability to enforce law and order, etc.

    I also think some of the talking heads could have chosen their words a little more carefully.

    "FEMA Director Michael Brown told CNN's Wolf Blitzer Thursday evening that "considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans, virtually a city that has been destroyed, things are going relatively well."

    "Yet, back in Washington, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff told CNN Thursday that he believes he thinks FEMA and other federal agencies have done a "magnificent job" under difficult circumstances to deal with the unprecedented disaster, citing their "courage" and "ingenuity."

    I couldn't believe these two comments....are we talking about the same event?

    This event is without precedent in this country. If I had to offer an opinion, I'd have to say that the response has not been able to meet the need, but I'm also not there, only know the issues as they are reported by the media, and my wildest nightmares are probably not even close to what the real situation is down there.

    My prayers go out to the victims and to all those who are responding to help them.
    Last edited by TCFire; 09-02-2005 at 09:40 AM.
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    Default Cluster @#&....

    To borrow the words of Gunny Highway in Heartbreak Ridge. We have a cluster. President Bush finally admits that this response is not acceptable.
    When Ivan hit the Florida Panhandle, we ahd boots on the ground within 3 days, I have a list of questions for Mike Brown of Fema and the rest of the administration:
    1) Why wasn't the USNHS Comfort, pre positioned in the Atlantic?
    2) Why hasn't it left Baltimore as of Friday 4 days after the storm it still sits in
    port?
    3) Why haven't regular troops been used to get boots on the ground?
    I believe we have Airborne units, that could be in devasted areas in less than 18 hours.?
    4) Why did it take the President till Wensday to make a decision to cut vacation short? Could it be LAME DUCK SYNDROME?????
    5)Why did it take till Thursday to get the Senate back to Washington to vote on a relief bill??
    6)Do any of our politicians really give a damm about the victims of this storm???

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    I am tired of hearing everyone bitching about this. The affected area is approx. 90,000 square miles. That is a HUGE area. It takes time to immobilize all the people who need to react, get rescue workers from around the country to get there.

    At the same time though I feel they are picky. Those of us who are volunteer FF's are not being called upon to go down to the affected areas yet, while the career guys are. Are we in a position to be picky? Am I missing something with it?

    I mean I see tons of stuff getting worse, and now with the huge fire they are fighting, and they are pumping water from the streets to fight the different fires, I have a feeling more are going to get sick from contamination and such. I think they can use all the help they can get. I would go in a second if I could get off work and I was allowed to go.
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    What about the responsibility of the State OEM offices. FEMA's response may be slow, but the State response has been virtually non-existent.

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    Exclamation

    I believe that Harve is correct. Having been in this field, as an Emergency Management Coordinator, I know how flustered things can be for a simple flood or storm event.

    However, the State Governors have to declare a state of emergency through their State Emergency Management Agency and this agency does the contacting of the Fed’s, and ask for help from FEMA, before FEMA can put the wheels in motion and go to their aid. It is not automatic, when a storm is approaching.

    Having a major hurricane bear down on you are and after being told by the Mayor of New Orleans, that “This is no DRILL, but THE REAL DEAL”! He ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city. They were told to leave. Some did but others didn’t. Knowing how this area is laid out, this was going to be a hardship on all involved. Not knowing that the levies were not to hold and crumble, provided a great flood to an already devastated area. With the electricity out, streets flooded and the water supply system down, the living conditions are horrible at best. Any one who would go to a shelter and think that they are going to be Omni, were sadly mistaken. Shelters are not fun for any one.

    The FEMA is and the Homeland Security Agency is being run (or ruined) at the time being by bureaucrats. Most know absolute nothing about emergency operations or response. It is really time for heads to roll and people who are in these comfortable positions to depart the offices that they are holding. Get tough on the Mr. President!!

    Call, write, e mail your U.S. Senators and House of Representatives for your area and complain about why the slow response. Our Brothers and Sisters in the New Orleans and other fire department were hard hit as well. Most of them do not have homes or even fire stations to go back to.

    Having the locals, shooting at rescuers and helicopters has got to stop. Send in the troops with full arms and ammunition to put a stop to one who is causing trouble. Let them loot whatever they need, food, water, so be it. All that stuff is going to be sent to the landfills any way. There is no excuse for the thugs to be raping, robbing and maiming the folks in this area.

    It is time for a mass convergence with troops, water, food and conduct an evacuation to an area that can handle and care for these folks.

    The news media, national news networks are not helping in this problem. They have the same folks, the talking heads, which were on the air after 9-11 saying the same old thing, blaming the US Government for this disaster!


    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    The city knew that they had this population that was not financialy able to self evacuate, where was their plan? Where was the state's plan? My son and I have had the discussion about people without any operational experience making descissions that they know absolutely nothing about. It makes no difference which party is in power, people normaly get high government jobs based on their ability to kiss someone's nether end. This is the same kind of problem that most of the folks here deal with daily only on a grand scale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer
    I believe that Harve is correct. Having been in this field, as an Emergency Management Coordinator, I know how flustered things can be for a simple flood or storm event.

    However, the State Governors have to declare a state of emergency through their State Emergency Management Agency and this agency does the contacting of the Fed’s, and ask for help from FEMA, before FEMA can put the wheels in motion and go to their aid. It is not automatic, when a storm is approaching.

    Having a major hurricane bear down on you are and after being told by the Mayor of New Orleans, that “This is no DRILL, but THE REAL DEAL”! He ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city. They were told to leave. Some did but others didn’t. Knowing how this area is laid out, this was going to be a hardship on all involved. Not knowing that the levies were not to hold and crumble, provided a great flood to an already devastated area. With the electricity out, streets flooded and the water supply system down, the living conditions are horrible at best. Any one who would go to a shelter and think that they are going to be Omni, were sadly mistaken. Shelters are not fun for any one.

    The FEMA is and the Homeland Security Agency is being run (or ruined) at the time being by bureaucrats. Most know absolute nothing about emergency operations or response. It is really time for heads to roll and people who are in these comfortable positions to depart the offices that they are holding. Get tough on the Mr. President!!

    Call, write, e mail your U.S. Senators and House of Representatives for your area and complain about why the slow response. Our Brothers and Sisters in the New Orleans and other fire department were hard hit as well. Most of them do not have homes or even fire stations to go back to.

    Having the locals, shooting at rescuers and helicopters has got to stop. Send in the troops with full arms and ammunition to put a stop to one who is causing trouble. Let them loot whatever they need, food, water, so be it. All that stuff is going to be sent to the landfills any way. There is no excuse for the thugs to be raping, robbing and maiming the folks in this area.

    It is time for a mass convergence with troops, water, food and conduct an evacuation to an area that can handle and care for these folks.

    The news media, national news networks are not helping in this problem. They have the same folks, the talking heads, which were on the air after 9-11 saying the same old thing, blaming the US Government for this disaster!


    Interesting post. But it abdicates the State of any responsibility. That's BS.

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    Prtesident Bush says the federal response has been "unacceptable".
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Interesting post. But it abdicates the State of any responsibility. That's BS.

    George, I am sorry that I didn't identify that the States have a great responsibility. The state OEM has a great role in any disasters. Having worked with the Virginia Department of Emergency Management for quite a few years, does a wonderful job in helping the local cities, counties and Emergency Managers. We refer them as a One Stop Shop agency. We ask for what we need and they go forth and procure it and make it happen.

    I am not sure if this has been the case in the areas affected from this storm.

    These State Agencies need to step up to the plate and assist in any and all ways to the Cites, Counties and Parishes in helping them with the problems at hand.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Gotta agree ---- too many bureacrats --- Fire Administration got swallowed up by FEMA --- Then FEMA got swallowed up. Far too many layers.
    Mr. Brown is spending too much time making excuses --- and not enough time trying to get things moving.

    We need leaders that can think on their feet.
    James Lee Witt ---- comes to mind.

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    Pennsylvania EMS Said 'DO NOT RESPOND' unless sanctioned by the state. They ask What people plan to do if they go down by themselves, then can't do anything? My reply was:

    If anything, we could all go down, stare at the ground, take pictures of us shaking hands, nod our heads and thank and congradulate each other repeatedly for doing absolutely nothing, except maybe remembering the names of the states and cities... It seems to be working for Gee Dubbya and his cronies.

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    And... WTF is wrong with Homeland Security..? They keep saying on CNN, "THIS WOULD BE A GREAT TIME FOR TERRORISTS TO ATTACK THE UNITED STATES, BECAUSE ALL OF OUR RESOURCES ARE IN THE SOUTH". Why don't they just send a goddamn invitation to them? And why do we need Homeland Security anyway? It's not like terrorists caused the Hurricane... They got rid of Civil Defense in 1993 under Clinton because it "caused panic", how is Homeland Security any different?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blueeighty88
    And... WTF is wrong with Homeland Security..? They keep saying on CNN, "THIS WOULD BE A GREAT TIME FOR TERRORISTS TO ATTACK THE UNITED STATES, BECAUSE ALL OF OUR RESOURCES ARE IN THE SOUTH". Why don't they just send a goddamn invitation to them? And why do we need Homeland Security anyway? It's not like terrorists caused the Hurricane... They got rid of Civil Defense in 1993 under Clinton because it "caused panic", how is Homeland Security any different?
    Because CNN WANTS terrorists to attack this country.

    I think it is very disingenuous to suggest that Pres. Bush is doing "nothing". As I have said about a thousand times, so far, FEMA is the last responders. The local OEM capabilities were decimated. The State's were not. It appears to me that the State OEM's have failed their citizens miserably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blueeighty88
    And... WTF is wrong with Homeland Security..? They keep saying on CNN, "THIS WOULD BE A GREAT TIME FOR TERRORISTS TO ATTACK THE UNITED STATES, BECAUSE ALL OF OUR RESOURCES ARE IN THE SOUTH". Why don't they just send a goddamn invitation to them? And why do we need Homeland Security anyway? It's not like terrorists caused the Hurricane... They got rid of Civil Defense in 1993 under Clinton because it "caused panic", how is Homeland Security any different?
    I thought President Carter did away with Civil Defense and created Emergency Management

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    If you turn on your TV, you will see the beginning of the massive, federally coordinated relief response. Five days for a response at the federal level to a disaster of unprecedented magnitude is not emabarrasing. Seems to me the State should have been there four days ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Because CNN WANTS terrorists to attack this country.

    I think it is very disingenuous to suggest that Pres. Bush is doing "nothing". As I have said about a thousand times, so far, FEMA is the last responders. The local OEM capabilities were decimated. The State's were not. It appears to me that the State OEM's have failed their citizens miserably.
    Once again it seems we are gonna hear the same excuse for 9/11 "no one could have imagined such a large disaster" Im sick of hearing these stupid excuses, its a lack of imagination, its aslo pathetic

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    Quote Originally Posted by BHFF22
    Once again it seems we are gonna hear the same excuse for 9/11 "no one could have imagined such a large disaster" Im sick of hearing these stupid excuses, its a lack of imagination, its aslo pathetic
    Can you please direct me to the section in the National Response Plan where it says that the State has no responsibility in the response to a natural disaster.

    BTW, I did not state that "no one could have imagined such a large disaster". I said it was unprecendented and it was. In fact, this type of disaster hsa been envisioned for years. Local officials dropped the ball in not planning for a predictable outcome.

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    Default Trying To Get Help

    We are doing our best to get things rolling here in North Carolina. We have spoken with the Director of Emergency Management for Mississippi. He is as upset at what isn't happening as we are. He has stated that they are in dire need of equipment and trained personnel, paid or volunteer. We are attempting to contact our Governors office and see how we can bypass the federal level and go state to state. I may be posting information here as soon as we find out something as to what we need to do to make our resources known. The Director from Mississippi said that the available resources needed to be listed with emac and once they are listed he would request them. It is time that we forget about making sure that everyone has the reimbursements covered and go save some lives!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Afd063
    We are doing our best to get things rolling here in North Carolina. We have spoken with the Director of Emergency Management for Mississippi. He is as upset at what isn't happening as we are. He has stated that they are in dire need of equipment and trained personnel, paid or volunteer. We are attempting to contact our Governors office and see how we can bypass the federal level and go state to state. I may be posting information here as soon as we find out something as to what we need to do to make our resources known. The Director from Mississippi said that the available resources needed to be listed with emac and once they are listed he would request them. It is time that we forget about making sure that everyone has the reimbursements covered and go save some lives!!!
    ive been on the phone with mississippi search and rescue twice. I was told when they need me they will call. sadly, the way things are going...i dont expect a call. i agree. this is bull**** there are innocent lives that NEED medical attention. this is horrible

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    As I have been flipping the channels on my TV watching news coverage from a variety of broadcasters in a number of areas, I have found a common theme among the victims' comments... "Where is the RED CROSS?"

    Of course, we all know where the Red Cross is: they are out doing what they they do best -- holding fundraisers and news conferences touting how wonderful they are.

    Watch the news closely... those aren't red cross trucks you see in the background with the victims crowding around... it's the Salvation Army quietly going about their work to serve the people in need.
    Resident Chaplain of the IACOJ

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    We were able to make contact with our Lt. Governors office. They put us in touch with EMAC or Emergency Management Assistance Compact. They are the funnel for all of the resources. We are currently trying to get the exact details of how you can make your resources known and get them into the system. We can only hope that we are on our way to getting help to everyone. I will keep you posted as I learn new information.

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