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  1. #41
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    Heres my 2 cents, even though this topic has kinda been everywhere. All I have to say is that im not anti red cross, but I think since we are firefighters,emts etc., we should focus our money and efforts on helping our fellow brothers and sisters. Let the public give to the red cross, there are several ways that have been mentioned here that would help fire departments and their members directly.


  2. #42
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    What about those of us offended by Kanye West's racist rant about the President not caring about blacks?Can we stop giving after we've helped load a couple ambualnces for a local service and donated their change from buying groceries at WalMart(and other stores)?
    I was appalled that the Red Cross hadn't said anything(that I've heard at least)about how Mr.West doesn't represent the views of the Red Cross.
    President Bush has declared the areas hit by the hurricane to be disaster areas even before that bliffer hit them.
    What else could he have done when the Governor of Louisiana and the Mayor of NOLA didn't ask for more until AFTER the storm turned out to hit harder than they expected.
    All I've seen from those two are exaggerations(sp?) that are being aired without checking.
    Maybe I'm wrong but the President is not personally responsible for storm damage to an area.Neither is the Mayor or Governor,but when they don't use resources at hand to do what they can to evacuate people that cannot afford to bug out on their own,they shouldn't be getting on TV to gain ratings at the President's expense.

  3. #43
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osfd100
    I have to disagree with Deputy Marshall about the 9 out of every 10 dollars going to the victims That is just not the case. The overhead costs for the Red Cross are just to high. And in some cases they refuse to release figures on their operational vs administrative costs.
    I'm not going to get into a protracted discussion on this but, if you look into it seriously, you'll find it to be true. As a very large, high profile, non-profit, the ARC gets scrutinized pretty closely and their books get reviewed by numerous outside sources.

    The money they took in under the premise that it would go to the WTC Victims and Families and ongoing support - compared to what they actually gave back is not even close to 9 out of 10.
    It depends on what you mean by "going to the families". If, as some would have it, you only consider money handed to victims in cash, you're undoubtedly correct. If, OTOH, you look at cash and services provided to 9-11 victims, you would be wrong.

    They need to get out of the make-up room, off the podium off all the news interviews and out to the people.
    I just got back yesterday from 2 1/2 weeks providing health services in Red Cross shelters in Louisiana where I was one of literally thousands of Red Cross staffers in LA alone. The Red Cross was "out of the make-up room" three days before Katrina made landfall and has been heavily involved in supporting Katrina's victims ever since.

    I'm not claiming that response to this disaster has been perfect, but there's no question that the Red Cross is working very hard and is very much getting "out to the people".

    THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT I WANT TO MAKE IS TO GIVE TO SOMEBODY!!!
    Amen to that!
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

  4. #44
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    Default posh offices? :O

    Hi! Your friendly local Red Cross type guy here. :-)

    Where are these posh offices that I hear of?
    Our local chapter was built before WWII was over and it's starting to show. :|

    I help staff as many First Aid stations as I can with the Red Cross and I really enjoy working with them... but I digress..

    http://www.charitynavigator.org has good information on charities.

  5. #45
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    I ran calls with my Red Cross chapter's local disaster team for
    10 years before (re) joining the fire service . Disaster relief and sheltering operations give you an entirely unique perspective of the effects of fires and other disasters on people and their families.

    The Red Cross volunteers that I had the experience of working with were as dedicated to their job(s) as any volunteer firefighter I have met. Given the scope of the American Red Cross duties- some of which are congressionnaly mandated- one could understand the need for paid staff to direct and coordinate these operations-and for the organization to provide decent salaries to retain quality personnel.

    We , in the fire service could take some lessons from this wonderful organization . There are nationally mandated training courses to serve as a Disaster Team Member - designed to be reasonable and accessible to the volunteer . They have had a nationwide mutual aid system in place for decades .

    I truly enjoyed my Red Cross experience , and recommend that,
    if you get the opportunity, check them out. They are good people , and they help make our job at least , somewhat easier.

  6. #46
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    Default Red Cross steals and sells

    As a member of the fire services, i must say i appreciate the work that the red cross does for the community, but i also wonder who it is costing. While unloading supplies at our church, we got a truck in that had nothing but trash bags full of clothes. When we asked where the tools went ( the sender told us she was sending pallets of chainsaws, shop vacs, rakes, shovels, saws, etc), the driver said he was directed to a local outlet mall. The red cross rep there told the driver that he was at the wrong location, and the materials were not meant for the RC, but then proceeded to take everything on pallets out of the truck. In a seperate incident, representatives from the red cross showed up at the church and upon seeing some things we had for children asked if they could have them, then said they would take them back to their set-up and sell them. So yes, the redcross does good work, but they are slightly crooked.

  7. #47
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbig7877
    As a member of the fire services, .... So yes, the redcross does good work, but they are slightly crooked.
    So, as a good honest member of the fire service, I'm sure you followed up on these alleged incidents with the Red Cross to find out what was going on?

    Sorry, but while I don't doubt the fact there are probably dishonest individuals within the Red Cross -- just like the fact the fact that there are dishonest individuals within the fire service -- your post comes across more like a troll than anything else.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

  8. #48
    MembersZone Subscriber latigo's Avatar
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    Angry

    Deputy Marshall et al,

    I have stayed out of this to date, for my own reasons. I am torn on the Red Cross issue. The people at the local chapter are, in my view, great. Very dedicated, upstanding people. I thank and support them for what they do. But, I do have a problem with the Red Cross, a very large problem. It has to do with their blood banking.

    Now, maybe it is just my area, but I feel they are dishonest and wrong in it here. They don't supply any of the local hospital, but continue to have blood drives here, even actively advertising for them. I know of one drive in the area where they were giving away a big screen TV. Pretty big ticket item as a gift for a unit of blood. The collections staff has led people to believe that their blood will be used locally, when in fact, it is shipped out. Many donors have expressed anger to me for the deceit of the ARC Blood Banking unit. They are even more angry when they find out the blood they donated went to another state, while we, the supplier locally, had to bring blood in.

    My view of the ARC went down after the 9-11 fiasco. It went down even further with my experiences with their blood banking unit. While I support the local chapter, and its people, I cannot in good conscience donate to the ARC. I believe that the actions of the blood banking unit show a dishonest nature amongst those in power in the ARC, and that was illustrated by the Feds taking over control of that unit. If I was assured the money either stayed local or went to do the good work, I would support them. As it is, the ARC needs a shakeup from the top down. I understand that you, and a lot of other very dedicated volunteers and local people do very good, vital work, and I applaud, and thank you, for it. Unfortunately, your good work can be overshadowed by the wrongs committed by others in that organization.
    "Illigitimi Non Carborundum"

    "The views expressed by me are solely my own, and in no way reflect the views of any organization which I belong to."

  9. #49
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Were the United Nations running the blood bank, there would be a "blood for food" scandal.
    With large organizations, it is easy for a few very bad people to commit their fraud and escape detection. But eventually, their greed overloads their brain and they do something dumb that gets them caught.
    With the sheer size of the Katrina/Rita disaster, there will be buttloads of fraud. The only way we can slow it is to prosecute to the fullest extent allowed by law, each and every time it is discovered. Banning contractors for life if they are caught committing fraud seems fair. Fines, restitution and jail should be the minimum.
    The only people are willing to roll the dice is because in the U.S., the upside is very profitable and the downside is negligible.
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  10. #50
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    I gave money to the RED CROSS.
    Why??? Because the RED CROSS helps many people. It is a huge organization and it takes money to get in place to help. The RED CROSS was there during 9/11/01 and helped many people that need help. Please don't turn your backs to them. Who else will help??? Who has the resources to HELP right away???

    The American Red Cross


    Food and Shelter – $513 million
    When Hurricanes Katrina and Rita threatened the Gulf Coast states, Red Cross disaster relief workers were preparing hundreds of evacuation shelters. The organization pre-positioned supplies including kitchens, pre-packaged meals and emergency response vehicles (ERVs). At the height of the relief effort, the Red Cross served more than 995,000 meals in a single day. In six remarkable weeks, a record 20 million meals and 13 million snacks were served to hurricane survivors located in 27 states and the District of Columbia. The Red Cross has distributed hundreds of thousands of clean-up kits and comfort-kits that contain personal-hygiene items.
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 10-16-2005 at 08:10 PM.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  11. #51
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefReason
    Were the United Nations running the blood bank, there would be a "blood for food" scandal.
    With large organizations, it is easy for a few very bad people to commit their fraud and escape detection. But eventually, their greed overloads their brain and they do something dumb that gets them caught.
    With the sheer size of the Katrina/Rita disaster, there will be buttloads of fraud. The only way we can slow it is to prosecute to the fullest extent allowed by law, each and every time it is discovered. Banning contractors for life if they are caught committing fraud seems fair. Fines, restitution and jail should be the minimum.
    The only people are willing to roll the dice is because in the U.S., the upside is very profitable and the downside is negligible.
    CR
    October 16, 2005 -- The American Red Cross is still chasing down scammers accused of ripping off 9/11 relief funds — recently filing a pair of lawsuits in Manhattan against alleged cheats who took advantage of others' misery to score $65,000 in unneeded benefits. The lawsuits target a Long Island woman who allegedly lied about being suicidal after supposedly losing a co-worker in the attacks, as well as two Brooklynites accused of double dipping and falsely claiming they required assistance. And in a third case, a school crossing guard who worked near the World Trade Center recently was ordered to repay $3,835 to the Red Cross after lying that the attacks left her in a financial lurch. "If prosecutors won't take the case criminally and we feel there's enough evidence there, we will try to get court-ordered restitution," said Devorah Goldburg, a Red Cross spokeswoman. "We are a charity," Goldburg said, "and we rely on the generosity of the public. When people defraud the Red Cross, they're really defrauding the people of America."
    In all, the Red Cross says, there have been 1,473 cases of suspected fraud involving $7 million of the $1 billion Liberty Fund, which the Red Cross set up to aid 9/11 victims. Of these cases, 140 have led to criminal convictions and 130 remain under investigation, Goldburg said. On its own, the Red Cross also has filed 21 lawsuits, five of which are still pending, since the attacks. In a case filed Oct. 5 in Manhattan, the Red Cross claims that Long Islander Shannan Hamilton took $43,000 in 2001 and early 2002 from the organization after claiming to be suicidal over the loss of a co-worker in the attacks.
    The woman allegedly also claimed to have lost her job at Avery Dennison Corp. because she was so distraught. Hamilton asked the Red Cross for money for psychiatric treatment, food and housing, the suit states. The organization initially gave Hamilton two payments. But when Hamilton asked for more cash in July 2002, a Red Cross worker reviewed her file and discovered she had lost her job two months before the attacks and had never gone to a shrink. A spokesman for Avery Dennison told The Post the company never had an office at the trade center and did not lose any employees in the terrorist attacks. In August, the Red Cross also sued Stephanie Li-Tan and Li Jun Tan, who lived together in Brooklyn but made separate requests for assistance for food, mortgage payments, transportation and infant supplies in January 2002. The Red Cross is accusing the father and daughter of double dipping and lying by claiming to need the $22,059 they received. Last month, the judge in the third case ordered school crossing guard Sonia Ortiz to pay up. Ortiz had confessed in a sworn statement that while missing work during the week after Sept. 11, she "suffered no other financial effects from the attack."
    Ortiz, Hamilton and the Tans could not be reached for comment.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  12. #52
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    The local chapter that I work with doesn't do blood drives. We refer people to the Stanford University Hospital blood center instead.

  13. #53
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    i agrea that more of the money should go to help directly. but the people of res cross did what they could. the military and fema, helped.the people who lived there could have helped them selves more.. i am in the military and was down there anf the people could have done more to help there own communities. some helped but most did not they watches as the people who came to HELP did all the work.as it is we were there to HELP not do it all our selves.

  14. #54
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    I thought I'd give an update on what's happened here.

    We're still struggling to bounce back financially from our Katrina damage. We still haven't gotten that roof fixed because of slow insurance and FEMA.

    The Red Cross showed up exactly TWICE in our town during Katrina. Once on the THIRD DAY and once abot 7 DAYS after the storm.
    The second time they had the nerve to ask if our department wanted to give a donation. HAH!!!!!!

    The KEY CHAPTER (Lauderdale County Mississippi) head honco woman sat during and after Christmas begging for more money and lying about all they had done for everyone. WHILE WEARING HER MINK FUR STOLE AND A 1/2+ Kt DIAMOND PENDANT.

    RedCross turned us down flat when we asked for supplies.
    RedCross turned us down flat when we asked for $$$ help.
    RedCross turned us down flat when we asked for food.
    RedCross can kiss our @SS!!!!

    Even if we have to stand on roadside and beg for the money, our townsfolk will always be able to count on us for relief and help.

    Here's who we thank.......
    Thanks to the FEMA folks for supplying ICE and MRE's and WATER to all of our County residents.
    Thanks to the SALVATION ARMY for setting up field kitchens to feed folks who had no power and/or food to cook.
    Thanks to the family in Yazoo who donated us an old but useable deep freezer to stock ICE in for emergencies.


    I've read the above posts,
    You can blindly believe the stories the media and ARC are putting out. You can't refute the stories coming from our area about lack of service from ARC.

    And another thing...........
    NEW ORLEANS IS NOT HURRICANE DAMAGE. That's FLOODING. It all happened AFTER Katrina had passed.

    If you want to see Hurricane Damage, look at MS, AL gulf coast.

  15. #55
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    Default Red Cross

    It's funny that in some cases this org. did this or it didn't do that. I'm a paramedic/ firefighter from Texas. We also got hit by a pretty bad hurricane named RITA. My home town of Beaumont got hit pretty hard. Not only did the whole of south east texas get hammered by it. so did south west la.
    I know how hard mississippi got hit because a group from my church in nederland which is south of beaumont went to gulfport to help out 2 weeks before we got hit at home. Is the system perfect. NO... But I also was in the army for 5 years. That gave me the training to deal with the disaster in a different way than most of the people I work with. We were short on all kinds of things. The point I was trying to make is my wife and 2 small kids left beaumont the wednesday before rita hit and went to her grandparents in springfield, missouri. The RED CROSS, FEMA, and her grandparents church were awesome. They were gone for a total of 6 weeks. I had to work and it was a very intresting 6 weeks. We need to quite name calling and blaming and find what worked and what did not work. Keep the stuff that did and find a soultion that works for everyone.

    We all know this WILL happen again. Just not when or where. I was taught in the military that the best laid plans NEVER stand up to the test of a REAL enemy. We all have to be able to adapt and over come the things.

    But don't let ALL of the god work the Red Cross does go by the way side. They also help service men and women get home to loved ones in time of need.

    AJ Martin EMT-P/ Firefighter and Most of All A DAD

  16. #56
    capfiremedic
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbfcfireman
    I dont know. I do believe that the local vollys down there will not get all the help that they need. and therefor we should donate to them with a "firefighter to firefighter" type donation.

    However. The red cross really does an amazing amount to help the people devastated and my guess is that they are also helping the responders that need it.
    Not to worry, we're getting donations that we can really use. Many Fire Departments throughout the country have come to our aid here and really have saved the day, from apparatus to bottled water. We're still in the hurt locker, but we're to stubborn to give up. Keep us in your hearts and minds as we continue to serve.

  17. #57
    capfiremedic
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarionMedic
    And another thing...........
    NEW ORLEANS IS NOT HURRICANE DAMAGE. That's FLOODING. It all happened AFTER Katrina had passed.

    If you want to see Hurricane Damage, look at MS, AL gulf coast.
    AMEN to that!!

  18. #58
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Smile It's Me Again............

    Yep, I'm back. I'm the one who stirred up this pot of..... well anyway, I wanted to create a dialog on the subject of US. That's Right. US. Firefighters, EMTs, Medics, Rescuers, whatever you want to call those of US who work or Volunteer in this great business. In retrospect, I suppose I could have chosen my words a bit better, but that's water over the dam, or whatever. What I wanted to help start was an effort where We helped one another, a direct Firefighter to Firefighter effort, rather than giving to a large organization that might not respect our wishes as to what segment of the disaster stricken area we wanted to help. I really think this happened, and to a degree, continues today. Prince Georges county VFDs were able to get some stuff together, including a Ladder Truck that went to West Hancock Miss. Other supplies went elsewhere in that area. If I ruffled a few feathers, Sorry, it wasn't intended. I am quite proud of the efforts that I have seen and heard of, where Firefighters helped Firefighters in the Gulf coast area. May God bless all of you. THANK YOU.
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